i wish

[jackie]

i wish there were more people posting here and on the other sites about what they went through, its really hard sometimes, for me anyway, i sit and cry thinking of all the shit, the signs, the costumes, the yelling and screaming the getting the shit beat out of me i fucking hate elan more than anything ive ever hated in my lifetime, and i know that more people have fucking been there than are even talking. nobody should ever have to go through the memories of that place alone and you might think im being a whiny bitch but i feel totally fucking alone in this. i didnt think much of myself when i got there probaably but i know i damn sure didnt think much of myself there, especially being told what a piece of crap i was and how i didnt deserve anything and how i was such a bad person i so freaking hate this crap.................

[Anonymous]

On 2003-07-21 23:26:00, jackie wrote:

"i wish there were more people posting here and on the other sites about what they went through, its really hard sometimes, for me anyway, i sit and cry thinking of all the shit, the signs, the costumes, the yelling and screaming the getting the shit beat out of me


I still hurt from my memories of the place where I was at and moreso the effects that it has had on my self-esteem, behaviors, and psychology.  Where I went was not as bad.  Noone got the shit beat out of them, and the signs, were very rare at that point in time.  If it is any consolation.  I am sorry that you had to go through that, and you are right that noone should have to

i fucking hate elan more than anything ive ever hated in my lifetime, and i know that more people have fucking been there than are even talking. nobody should ever have to go through the memories of that place alone and you might think im being a whiny bitch but i feel totally fucking alone in this.

Your strength does still reside inside.


i didnt think much of myself when i got there probaably but i know i damn sure didnt think much of myself there, especially being told what a piece of crap i was and how i didnt deserve anything and how i was such a bad person i so freaking hate this crap................."


I promise you that it is possible to see your way through this, but in the end it is up to you.

Paul

[Paul St. John]

i know i damn sure didnt think much of myself there, especially being told what a piece of crap i was and how i didnt deserve anything and how i was such a bad person"

This is how they work their way in.  It really is like the theft of a soul.

What they do not tell you is that the people there are hungry.  They feed off in destroying in you, the same things that were destroted in them.

They are people who do not care anymore.  This is the only way that they can sustain their existence.

especially being told what a piece of crap

Now right here, they utilise an interesting phenomenon to completely fuck you up.  It is fact that if you are told something like this on a continuos basis, your subconscious will accept it as true, even if you consciously reject it.  If the mind keeps hearing it, it will begin to treat it as fact.

how i didnt deserve anything and how i was such a bad person

Self- Renunciation.  One of their most important techniques in battle is to get you to renounce yourself, so that you will no longer protect yourself.  They don t wanna fight you and win.  Rather, they wanna pit you up against yourself.

They don t wanna fight you win, cause more often then not, they can't.

You see the averge criminal is actually a better human being then they are.  A criminl may physically beat the shit out of you to steal your purse, or may hold a gun to your head.

They don t defeat you before they steal from you.  They let you do the dirty work for them, and then they steal from you.  They steal from you the inner light that they can no longer produce on their own.

Sly, fuckin weasels...

how i was such a bad person

Guilt is one of the greatest controlling factors used throughout history, and it works best on Christains.
Not tomention sacrifice..

Elan, is actually a spin- off of Daytop, which was put together by a Catholic priest.



Paul St. John

[jackie]

ya your right, my self esteem, my behaviours, and my overall view of life were extremely altered by my "elan experiance". i was a pretty good kid that didnt have any structure before i went into elan, ya i had my share of problems and was smoking pot and drinking, but i never had ANY consequences whatsoever. Elan was my first consequence. I was 13 when i went in there, and simply a mixed up misdirected kid. When i left, i was a violent 17 year old woman, hell bent on self destruction because of feelings of worthlessness and not knowing how to cope with life.sometimes i feel like im still there, the self worth issue is still at hand, i went through abusive relationship after relationship, my ex husband being the last one. i never learned the things that most kids being teenagers were learning. ok so, tell me, what was i suppose to learn there :question: im still totally messed up in the head and in therapy trying to figure things out, i still cant remember alot of my stay there, but from what ive heard from people i wasnt a bad person i was just a screwed up kid, and at 37, i still am :flame:

[jackie]

oh ya and thanks paul, you have alot of insight and it really does help :smile:

[Paul St. John]

On 2003-07-23 10:37:00, jackie wrote:

"oh ya and thanks paul, you have alot of insight and it really does help :smile: "

Hey..

    Cool that it helped.  I figure that different perspectives on things may shift them a bit.

Best of luck, or whatever the better word would be,

Paul St. John

[Paul St. John]

On 2003-07-23 10:35:00, jackie wrote:

"ya your right, my self esteem, my behaviours, and my overall view of life were extremely altered by my "elan experiance". i was a pretty good kid that didnt have any structure before i went into elan,

That s all they need.. If that was your flaw, then that is whta they would work with.. Whatever one flaw that you had was their way in you.


 ya i had my share of problems and was smoking pot and drinking, but i never had ANY consequences whatsoever. Elan was my first consequence. I was 13 when i went in there, and simply a mixed up misdirected kid.



 When i left, i was a violent 17 year old woman, hell bent on self destruction because of feelings of worthlessness and not knowing how to cope with life.

When I left I was a 17 year old man, with a very similar experience. I was suddenly self-destructive, and knowinly so.. I kinda got high of of it in a way... and I was also more violent then I had ever been before( I was generally a pretty peaceful guy)  I had less control over my emotiuons then I had ever had, but it makes sense as one of the things that they teach you in there, albeit subliminally, is that emotions are primary to thought, and that you should more or less sacrificxe yourself to any minor emotin that you have, as though it is all important.

They can use your ego against you here, by challenging you .. They paint a picture that if you can sink into your emotions, then you are not facing them, and you are weak.  In actuality, the proper application of a person s mind, to be who they WISH to be, and not just the PRODUCT, of any random emotiuon that comes up is where real Strength is"




sometimes i feel like im still there,


LOL!! You are not the only one.. I never felt like I got out of there.. For years, afterward, it was as though, I built a world on the outside world, while still feeling like I was inside.  I ll be honest with ya; I was scared of those people.  If they can get away with this, what the hell else can they get away with?  These are the people who rule the world..  They don t contribute to it, but they seem to be able to get away with anything taht they wish.  Now, to me.. That is so me scary shit.. How much work would it take for assholes like that to convince a group of people that the literal death of another was in the best interest of society?  These are questions that I asked while in there.. but I do remember having some sort of sense that my mind was being affected by the program at the time, and that these fear weher not justified.


 the self worth issue is still at hand, i went through abusive relationship after relationship, my ex husband being the last one.


I ve had similar situations.. LOL!! For years after, I have found myself working at occupations, that are somehow reminicaint of old Daytop.

I know taht there are a few reasons for this.
Kinda like that U2 song, Stuck in a Mment"  

 i never learned the things that most kids being teenagers were learning. ok so, tell me, what was i suppose to learn there :question: im still totally messed up in the head and in therapy trying to figure things out, i still cant remember alot of my stay there,

< I > I hope to remember it all.  it s a big challenge, and I m scared hsit, but that s what I m going for.. At this point, I odn t yet remember much.

 but from what ive heard from people i wasnt a bad person i was just a screwed up kid, and at 37, i still am :flame: "

Again.... Best Wishes!

Paul

[Paul St. John]

Jackie,

    It may help you to know that the self-destructiveness, is not actually a sign of your bad-ness, but of your good-ness.  When the people there destroted you, they took away no doubt a beautiful part of you , that felt good to have.

     See, you, like myself, and probably almost everybody else who goes to these joints, seperated yourself from the experience cause it hurt.  Yourself, keeps going back to destructiveness, cause that is the last place that it has seen it s lost parts, if you can follow.


It s like when a gilr gets say beaten and raped, and then constantly finds herself in abusive relationships, and may even find that a part of here enjoys the abuse.  She enjoys it because, she is communing with a lost part of herself, in the onley way that she can figure out to do it.


Also, in the relationship case, taht has to do with the fact that in these places, they teach you also to be blind to abuse.

I went in there sharp as a tack.. When I came ouit, I was more easilt decived.. Well, why the hell shouldn t I be?  It was a way of life for me for a long time.. I had to allow myself to be deciceved everyday afterall, within those wallas.

Paul

[Anonymous]

hallow i am manu rom milan and you are shit :wstupid:

[Anonymous]

hey answer me you dick heads ::rocker::

[Anonymous]

Really preist?

[xres8182]

Hi Jackie, I see your still angry.Hope your doing O.K. Jackie has reason to be angry.I used to watch her get the shit beat out of her on a regular basis.I can't say it was very therapeutic.

[Anonymous]

Elan, is actually a spin- off of Daytop, which was put together by a Catholic priest.

That really explains a lot to me, especially the "copping to your guilt." Once I learned about that, I knew that Elan was not an ordinary placement; it was really a cult, because the whole concept sounded a lot like confession, and it even a cleanup (penance) at the end, only instead of saying "Hail Marys" you would scrub floors. Elan was trying to make itself a religion, a faith onto itself - there were even slogans on the wall that preaching "blind faith" in the program, the "slipbox" and "incident book" were even referred to as "sacred tools." Blind obedience was expected along with blind faith. And never in my life had I ever heard the word "guilt" used so often, even in a religious context.

Being that Elan believed that it program was a religion, it did not encourge religious worship, nor was it very accommodating to those who wished to do so, except by token gestures in order to be politically correct. (Jewish students did get to see the rabbi and celebrate Passover, because Marc R. advocated for them; I think Marc was cool in this respect) But Christians who wanted to go to church on Sundays either almost never got to go (even on Christmas and Easter), or they went to the wrong church. One person was fasting for Rammadan, and they were put on headcounts at sundown, the time when they could eat again, and they couldn't get off of them for a long time, even though people were offering to take headcounts for them.

Religion is an important part of someone's identity, and Elan doesn't want people to have an identity, be it ethnic pride, or even something as unimportant as an "image," such as a hommie. Two people I know had claddagh rings taken away because the staff claimed that they were "imaging out." (These people didn't even have the same "image," but of course Elan knows everything) I'm sure that the staff are smart enough to know what claddagh rings are, but it fits with their whole policy of removing your identity and replacing it with theirs, which is whatever position they give you in the house.

The Christian influence might explain Elan's peculiar approach to female sexuality. No students were allowed to "play games," but when a girl was caught doing so, she was treated radically different than her male counterpart. She was stimatized for the majority of her stay, and got to hear about what a slut she was (the girls who were violent were treated better - after their rings, of course), whereas the boy could "clean up his mess' and move on.

[GregFL]

daytop was founded by synanon members, not the catholic church.

[Anonymous]

Daytop was founded by a a charitable foundation and was headed by a catholic priest. The first attempt failed. Then several former Synanon members amoung them David Dietsch and Sonny Koretsky along with Manuel Ramirez, MD were brought in to restart the program.