Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > Hyde Schools

Re: HAPA

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DannyB II:

--- Quote from: "Ursus" ---
--- Quote from: "Anne Bonney" ---
--- Quote from: "DannyB II" ---
--- Quote from: "Ursus" ---Well, for someone who allegedly has had nothing more to do with the Mankind Project for two decades you sure do seem to speak with some authority when it comes to how that organization is run, right down to procedural protocol in each and every chapter, and right up to present day events, eh?
--- End quote ---
This is true Ursus I do yet You would have to admit the same (oh that's right you claim the higher ground, when you claim nothing at all) with your assertions and facts concerning MK.
Why are we arguing a benign circumstance, Ursus????????
--- End quote ---
Just a guess, but maybe he doesn't consider it to be benign.  Crazy, I know.
--- End quote ---
Yep, you reckoned rightly, Anne. I think S. Byers said it pretty well in his/her comment earlier:

S. Byers says:
Mankind Project would be laudible in its aims if its practices were not so dangerous and abusive. In using amateurs to practice psychotherapy upon unsuspecting and vulnerable men it is laying itself open to gross malpractice - ah - but men are required to sign an injury disclaimer before attending. But it takes about four years for a medical surgeon to become qualified; it takes seven years for a psychotherapist / psychologist to become qualified. Yet MKP thinks that it can train its staff in psychotherapy in a weekend. The appalling suicide mentioned in the above report is but one of a number that have been mentioned on the various forums. MKP is like the very worst of the now illegal hazing fraternities. I know of other men who have had to receive professional counselling for years after attending just one weekend with MKP. The secrecy surrounding its practices are necessary because no sane man would ever pay top dollars and volunteer to be subjected to the appalling abuse (sleep deprivation, physical abuse, mental abuse, spiritual abuse, food deprivation, extreme cold, removal of medications, etc.) that is meted out to unwitting participants on the New Warrior Training Weekends. Many of these weekends are held at Christian Camps, Kiwanis, etc., all of whom organisations I suspect haven't a clue as to what is really going on. The fact that Catholic priests are involved is even more unacceptable - but then the Catholic Church is not exactly squeaky clean over abuse is it? And having screwed up vulnerable men's minds MKP spits them out and then fails to suppport them when they have re-entry problems into the everyday world. And sadly MKP is a world wide organsiation which like a cancer has spread into schools and prisons. Thank you for your in-depth report. SB.
Posted On: Thursday, Oct. 4 2007 @ 9:56AM[/list][/list][/list]


--- Quote from: "Anne Bonney" ---
--- Quote from: "DannyB II" ---It is tragic when anyone dies but guess what I am sure someone else will die, maybe falling down walking to the circle, some psycho will go "postal", somebody may get stung by a bee, bit by a snake, attacked by a bear ect....
--- End quote ---
Well, this death may be directly attributed to the methods that were used.  What you've described above, are accidents.
--- End quote ---
Lol. Puhlease, Danny. With logic like that, who needs teh law? See S. Byers comment above.


--- Quote from: "Anne Bonney" ---
--- Quote from: "DannyB II" ---Ursus these comments concerning grabbing another mans penis is all from your workshop, so why are you inferring that I/we explain it. "You", explain why your weekend moved/shifted to a effeminate intimacy between men, where it was OK to fondle each other genitals. I have had, at least 20 guys look at this post and no one I mean no one has heard of this. What the fuck are you bringing to the table, pussy boy...... :roflmao:
--- End quote ---
Oh...so your "20 guys" is somehow considered proof?  Shit, anyone can make anonymous claims.  What is it exactly that you're asking of Ursus?
--- End quote ---
Well, Danny, it seems that you or whoever from those "20 guys" is helping you with your posts here ... failed to fully read my previous post. And like I said, "ya can interpret it as you see fit." Kinda curious that you're getting all bent out of shape 'bout me quoting from some article, doncha think?
--- End quote ---

Ursus, we all read your posts and realized that you really are, out there.
Like I said this post is so benign I really don't care anymore.
When you have something worth reading, I'll comment.

Paul St. John:
I can see it now-

Danny and 19 other naked guys sitting 'round reading Ursus's post, going , " What a pussy Boy!"

LOL!

Ursus:
Some more comments follow below...

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Comments on the above article, "Cover Story: The ManKind Project" (By Chris Vogel; Oct. 3 2007; Houston Press); #s 21-40:


Long Time Warrior says:
I have been involved with The New Warrior Training Adventure for over 15 years and can state that the majority of what this article has stated is an outright lie or a total fantasy.

I did my Weekend in early 90's and was in recovery and this was the best think that had happened to me. I found I could trust men better and it allowed to get closer to my father. For me this was a very powerful weekend.

The weekend that Mike experienced was not the weekend that I have been part of, at no time is some one forced to do anything they dont wanna do, at no time is the person every threatened, if someone wants to leave they can but they are encouraged to stay and do the weekend since that is why they have choosen to come to the weekend.

The weekend is not for the faint of heart or the weak. The weekend demands alot both physically and mentally from the men doing the weekend.

I feel sorry for the men that have gotten the wrong idea about MKP and all the great work it has done.

I am pround to be part of this great organization and feel that what happened is very tragic but in no way is MKP responsible for this young mans death.

He had done COKE within an hour of his death, this young man for what ever reason took his own life and that is tragic cause at no time did he reach out for help and he really needed to reach out those that could have helped him. I feel very sorry for the families lose but I feel they are going after the wrong organization.
Posted On: Saturday, Oct. 6 2007 @ 9:43PM[/list][/list]
ABC says:
I have been in many MKP sweats. There is no "mutual fondling of dicks."

There is no saying "that women are evil."

There is no intent to "cause conflicts in marriages."

There is no Wicca. No talking to dead spirits.

I was taught love, respect, and tolerance.
Posted On: Sunday, Oct. 7 2007 @ 8:07PM[/list][/list]
Deeply Saddened says:
My heart goes out the Scinto family at their terrible loss.. Having said that, MKP's New Warrior Training Adventure has been one of the most positive influences in my life... I have changed my life dramatically since my weekend. This article is filled with lies, half truths, and completely distorted statements of 'fact'. MKP turns a 'straight man gay'???? GET A LIFE!!! This is so far from the truth that I could vomit.... What an ignorant statement...! Unless you have actually done the weekend, your comments don't mean anything.... better off zipping your lips...
Posted On: Monday, Oct. 8 2007 @ 11:29AM[/list][/list]
Greg says:
Joey's Comment said it all...

"...MKP does incorporate some spiritual traditions of cultures other than Judeo-Christian."

Stay far away from this group! I especially want to warn you Christians!

You people involved in this cult have been deceived. There are reasons that you do not recognize this deception; one being the moment you put on that blindfold and walked around naked outside with other men. You believe that you have been "enlightened," but you are far from the light.

There is a light that's involved in this group, but it is not Judeo-Christian.
Posted On: Monday, Oct. 8 2007 @ 11:25PM[/list][/list]
Deeply Saddened says:
Greg,
Both you and Joey pathetic.... MKP is NOT a religion; a man is free to walk ANY path that he chooses, with NO interference from MKP... it is about living in integrity and being accountable.... And more importantly, MKP is NOT a cult... If either of you two think a weekend, actually less than 48 hours, can make a straight man gay, or brainwashed a man... you two dudes need to get a grip on reality... You two are the blind leading the blind.... GET A LIFE!!
Posted On: Tuesday, Oct. 9 2007 @ 6:05AM[/list][/list]
ABC says:
Fact is, those who are uncomfortable with certain things can choose not to participate in those--without consequences. Christians speak of their faith, and voice their prayers, and are greeted with respect by others.
Posted On: Tuesday, Oct. 9 2007 @ 9:00AM[/list][/list]
Rich M says:
I have been reading these posts with a mix of sadness, fear and astonishment. Some of the responses and the original article lack connection with research, facts or reality. It appears the Houston Posts' author took a position based on one person's experience, some distorted views, blatant mistruths and parlayed them into a condemnation of an organization cloaked in an unfortunate suicide to avoid any valid journalistic responsibility to report the other side in a fair and balanced view. The ensuing firestorm of paranoia reminds me of what happened with "War of the Worlds" in 1938. I would expect this reporter has a bright future with the tabloid publications that are known for factual and accurate reporting.

Having experienced the "paranoia" of booze induced cocaine addiction, I can identify with the type of mental state a man is in to write a letter as Michael did, and ultimately ending his own life. I have been there before. To state that the cause was from his MKP weekend is pretty weak. Why not AA?, Church?, or any number of other failed attempts of help. The events leading up to this suicide more than likely had been in the works for a lot longer than this article would lead us to believe.
Posted On: Wednesday, Oct. 10 2007 @ 2:41PM[/list][/list]
Rory Bowman says:
In defense of Chris Vogel, his first exposure to MKP mainly seems to have come from the MS' (perhaps drug-paranoid) letter to the sheriff and the plaintiff's lawsuit, perhaps nudged that way by the plaintiff's lawyer, who hopes that publicity will increase his chances of a settlement in a case where he is likely to lose and so not get paid. Mr. Vogel did contact a variety of men and post a few pro-MKP videos in the space above, so I don't think it is entirely fair to portray him as partisan. He was introduced to the subject by clearly self-interested partisans, and presumably did the best he could within the constraints he found himself, and on a deadline to boot.
Posted On: Wednesday, Oct. 10 2007 @ 3:51PM[/list][/list]
"Bob" says:
"Bob" here. I am one of men Mr.Chris Vogel contacted. I gave him permission to share my experience with MKP and my recovery program.

Years ago my wife "Cathy" and I thought we had made friends with another couple in recovery. We all spent time together. Good times and bad. That all went away when I started to express my concerns about that Warrior Weekend. Yes I got information off the internet. But who doesn't these days ? I also got back-up information from human sources.

I was told I wasn't ready for the Weekend. It wasn't for me. But I was also told that I had wounds and Shadow Work to do. A lot to do by their count. I was angry but two people I love dearly, my wife and my recovery sponsor made comments to me that snapped me right out of my self-centeredness and help put me back on track with my program. From my wife one day:

"Why are you angry ? You're still alive and sober."

From my sponsor: "Tradition number 10" It reads " Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside matters; hence the A.A. name ought never be drawn into public controversy"

Our middle son has come back in to his recovery program. Today, he is alive and sober. I can't imagine a child of mine killing themself regardless of the reasons. Our hearts and prayers go out to Michael's family.

Warm regards,

"Bob"
Posted On: Wednesday, Oct. 10 2007 @ 9:12PM[/list][/list]
Kenneth Adler, MD says:
I am a retired orthopedic surgeon. I did my weekend in 1997. I staffed 23 weekends, some as far away as New Zealand. We pay money to staff the weekends. I was the doctor on at least 5 weeekends. The leaders are extremely well-trained. There are many Psychologists, Psychiatrists, social workers, etc on staff on these weekends usually. I have driven men home from 2 weekends, and arranged a ride home with a friend for several more. Anyone may leave at any time, and any man may decide not to participate in any particular process. It is forbidden to have any sexual contact with another man. Multiculturalism is stressed, and that means teaching understanding and tolerance of all differences of men, including different sexual preferences. Nudity is used very sparingly, and clothing is optional. It is non-sectarian, and has no reference to any God, altough it does stress spirituality. It is not a cult. It bases itself heavily on Native American spituality, and on Jungian principles.

A young man chose to take his own life after doing this particular weekend. He used Cocaine and alcohol, and anyone familiar with addictions, would know that mixing drugs is dangerous, and there frequently is a rapid high, and very deep low. This was a high risk individual. The parents are obviously upset, and it natural to look for a reason why their "high risk" son would take his own life. My heart goes out to these parents, who have lost their son.

The media has made a circus out of this story. It looks like a lot of puritanical people are having a lot of fun with something very wholesome, and life-changing.

The saddest thing that I can see from all this, is that men that would really benefit from this type of personal growth, may not come to a Mankind Project weekend. How many deaths will result from that?

Kenneth Adler, MD
Posted On: Wednesday, Oct. 10 2007 @ 9:35PM[/list][/list]
Pink Freud says:
"How many deaths will result from that ?"

Are you really asking how many men will die if they don't go through the Weekend ?

Mister, you just told everyone more about yourself than you realize.

P.F.
Posted On: Wednesday, Oct. 10 2007 @ 10:29PM[/list][/list]
NewbieNW says:
Having just completed the weekend, I must say this is awkward. The article is dated just a few days before my weekend began.
I have mental health issues, and see a therapist regularly. I considered this weekend long and hard before I took it.
There were parts of the weekend it that seemed "harsh" to me, but they were not dangerous or in anyway intended to harm. I opted out of one thing that made me very uncomfortable, and was treated with respect for having done so.
The weekend, though I wouldn't say it changed my life, was definitely worth the experience.
At NO TIME was sexual behavior allowed, encouraged or tolerated. And at no time was anyone trying to recruit persons to become homosexual.
I talked with my therapist before I took this training; I talked with my partner; and I looked deeply whether I was willing to participate in something that was a "complete" mystery. I take full responsibility for my participation, for what I did or didn't get out of the weekend, and whether or not I remain active within the MKP organization.
I suspect the persons involved are conservative socially, if not religiously, and this is some way to put the blame on anyone other than the sad, tragic young man and his equally distressed, saddened family.
The one thing I went in the weekend with and came way from it with even more strongly: I must take resposibility for my actions and do what I can to deal with the consequences of those actions.
My prayers are with Michael, with his family and friends, but also with all the MKP members whose lives were changed for the better.
Posted On: Thursday, Oct. 11 2007 @ 3:09AM[/list][/list]
NewbieNW says:
Point of clarification:

In my post I state:

I suspect the persons involved are conservative socially, if not religiously, and this is some way to put the blame on anyone other than the sad, tragic young man and his equally distressed, saddened family.

It should have read:

I suspected the persons involved in the lawsuit are conservative socially, etc. etc.

Just want it to be clear as to who I was talking about. Didn't take the time to proof it. My apologies for any confusion.
Posted On: Thursday, Oct. 11 2007 @ 3:16AM[/list][/list]
Jerry says:
Perspective, the thing often lacking in popular journalism. I believe the suicide rate of MKP is drastically lower than most ivy league universities. In my judgment, the benefit from this program has a more positive impact on the mental health and emotional well being of the graduates and their families than many ivy league educations. (I am a graduate of both.) I have also staffed several of these weekends.

It would have been interesting if you had interviewed some of the wives and girlfriends of these men. I have personally heard testimonials of women who are very grateful for the personal growth, presence, and ability to be a more mature and loving man and understand and appreciate the positive longterm impact on their marriage and the emotional well being of their entire family. The weekend is educational training, not therapy. Just like any college course, personal improvement course, or any other education, many benefit, some get little out of it. The difference is the attitude of the participant.

My sadness is that the one graduate that uses his college degree to make letter bombs gets ten times the press coverage than the 2 dozen Nobel prize winners.

I am glad that this sensationalism has raised awareness of men (and their loved ones) that there is a real and powerful source of training and interpersonal wisdom available to them. MKP is changing the world in a very postive direction... one man at a time.
Posted On: Thursday, Oct. 11 2007 @ 3:13PM[/list][/list]
Normal Guy says:
My prayers go out for Michael ---
It would be unfortunate if such a fine group as MKP Houston was damaged for the greed of some.
I did my weekend in '99 and there was never any sexual misconduct of any sort, no touching cocks or recruiting for homosexual lifestyle. I believe that there was a lot of fabrication on the part of the author of this article.
Posted On: Thursday, Oct. 11 2007 @ 3:14PM[/list][/list]
Rick says:
Has anyone considered the following indisputable points:

1. According to the article, MKP has initiated 4,000 men since 1991. I think it is safe to assume that these are no often troubled men looking for healing. Just reviewing the comments, many men self-report having found what they were looking for. Aside from the fact that it is highly questionable to suggest that the weekend event was the cause of a relapsing drug and alcohol dependent man's decision to commit suicide, one participant's suicide as compared to the experiences of 4,000 men over a 16 year period does not suggest a problem with the weekend to me. And while Vogel suggests that the weekend constitutes therapy, what is the suicide rate among the clientele of practicing psychologists? Just because someone chooses to commit the difficult to predict act of suicide should not be an indictment on a troubled individual's therapist or the weekend event.

2. I find great irony in the fact that Vogel effectively concludes that the weekend constitutes therapy, and then he chooses to "out" participants in the weekend BY NAME. What purpose was served by outing men participating in a purportedly therapeutic weekend other than to sensationalize the article at these men's expense? The story could have been told without using anyone's name and could have been told with reference only to their professions if Vogel thought that important. If Mr. Vogel found a therapist's client book wouldn't journalistic ethics dictate that he not publish a list of client names. If one of the men Vogel chose to "out" grows despondent because of the false suggestion that he either touched some other man's penis or was similarly touched on the weekend and takes his life, is Vogel responsible for that? Does anyone doubt that the Houston Press's argument would be that the individual was troubled anyway and that the Press is not at fault. I think it was truly shameful and unprofessional to use the names of participants on the weekend. It served no purpose whatsoever. I suggest Vogel reexamine his journalistic integrity.
Posted On: Friday, Oct. 12 2007 @ 11:49AM[/list][/list]
Heard It All Before says:
I worked for a small company for a boss who went nuts for the ManKind group. He constantly tried to recruit the other men and blabbed about how the group was making him a better man with more integrity--all while he was drilling his secretary behind his wife's back, who happened to work in the same office. We all agreed that the group only fed his already intolerable narcissism.
Posted On: Thursday, Oct. 25 2007 @ 1:13PM[/list][/list]
James Reed says:
I can see how the MKP would seem odd , strange, and maybe even cultish to people. Thats what I tought before, when I first heard about it. Society in many casses has had good reason to fear and question gatherings of men. But I promise, there's is nothing to fear about MKP. I've been a part of New Warrior since '93 and believe it's a huge benefit for our society to have men (especially men in positions of power)knowing themselves and being in the healing process.
I'm a school teacher and a father of two. What I've learned from my work with MKP is invaluable and huge part of who I am. What I got from my weekend I didn't get from my home growing up, from my church nor my community as a whole.
People talk about abuse...what abuse? Giving men opportinities to begin to heal past pain? Getting men together to hear the truth about eachother? Whats wrong with that?
Like other groups, MKP is not perfect. They've made mistakes. But mikstakes don't invalidate or make a person, group or institution bad. I'm a Roman Catholic. God knows it is not perfect and needs lots of cleaning up.
I think it gets down to the huge mistrust society has of men getting together to heal themselves. Groups like this are a godsend and are positives forces for the community. Instead of trying to cut it down, people should get better informed before they trash something they don't know.
Posted On: Friday, Oct. 26 2007 @ 12:33PM[/list][/list]
Barbara Bush says:
This "mankind project" is clearly Satanism and scandal of the highest order. No similar men's organization should be allowed to exist anywhere, ever. Not on the campus of Yale, not near the Bohemian Club and certainly not in Texas or near my husband or child. Why should we hear about naked men and suicide? It's not relevant. So why should I waste my beautiful mind on something like that?
Posted On: Sunday, Oct. 28 2007 @ 8:02PM[/list][/list]
Kathy Scinto says:
If you have had a bad experience with Mankind Project please email me at scintok@hotmail.com.

Thank you - Kathy Scinto
Posted On: Monday, Nov. 12 2007 @ 2:16PM[/list][/list]


©2010 Houston Press, LP.

Ursus:
Comments on the above article, "Cover Story: The ManKind Project" (By Chris Vogel; Oct. 3, 2007; Houston Press); #s 41-60:


anonymous says:
My husband attended, wasn't forthright about it from the beginning, chose not to tell me he 'had' to carpool until on his way, kept secret about what happened, lied about the group meetings afterwards, those I knew in the group began treating me differently, distancing themselves, he became attached to the bandana he wore (the blindfold) and some leather necklace that 'had' to be next to our bed, and when I saw his weekend packet, there were very young drawings of stick people reflecting his desires and problems, I found it strange. I can say we are no longer together and weren't much after that weekend, and he did receive regular emails and had to report to his group in keeping whatever commitment he promised to do. It all sounds very disturbing and appears to have disturbed a young man. Blessings to his family.
Posted On: Thursday, Nov. 15 2007 @ 12:57PM[/list][/list]
Shawn says:
Although I found the article to somewhat one-sided I agree that organizations that are built around the seeking of "donations" without a track record of community philanthropy are little more than elaborate grifts. The sad part is that the men who so ardously defend such organizations abilities to make them better men are the very ones who lack substance in any other area of their lives. Religions, fraternities and cults have long reached out to those with little individual coping skills to induct or "initiate" into their folds. These individuals are the ones who need the most help, true, but are also the ones who are also least able to differentiate between healthy and unhealthy behaviors in others. The thing that sets religions and fraternities apart from cults is that religions and fraternities do not require members to affix their signatures to iron clad secrecy agreements before welcoming new members. Groups that need to bind you legally to their secrets need to do so for their own protection which should be a red flag to someone when at the same time being told that it is in their (the new members) best interests. Members who hold their brothers in such high esteem should not require more than a handshake agreement at keeping one's word or secrets. If the MKP is such a great organization then they should focus less on fundraising and legal boilerplate and more on actually helping their target group - men.
Posted On: Friday, Nov. 23 2007 @ 4:52AM[/list][/list]
George says:
I have participated in MKP weekend and at that time it was very good for me and I had a very supportive mentor. Much of what some people find horrible like talking about sex and certain intense exercises on the weekend for me were positive aspects of the weekend that helped me open up to others while in my discomfort. MKP is certainly not a cult or "all bad". That said, I also believe the organization has had many major problems in the i-groups where men who were not at all qualified were facilitating deep psychological practices and doing so poorly and sometimes abusively. This has caused trauma for me and other men I met in MKP with little real guidance, which I eventually found through a professional therapist, who said some of the practices I reported were inappropriate. Some of the groups I went to were safe and supportive while others were abusive. MKP in general misuses psychology and has applied these practices and concepts outside of their original context. I was not alone in my complaints. After realizing that MKP was slow to change and monitor the abuses in the i-groups I had chosen to leave and not support the organization any more. Others I knew vowed to stay and help change it. I have also heard before I left that a different man had committed suicide while attending the i-groups, and had mentioned his suicidal feelings in an i-group. This occurred years before this incident. What is sad is that MKP as an organization has sung its own praise and yet has during the entire time I was there never acknowledged that there may also be dangers such as this and how men can help each other by referring men to clinics, professional help etc. If you go to a therapist the therapist says to you, "everything you say here is confidential except in cases where you say you will harm yourself and others." I believe in retrospect MKP has been very irresponsible and in its euphoric haze, and zeal to recruit has closed its eyes and ears and hearts to these real and glaring problems. I agree with the earlier comment, "the tragedy was in their (MKP's) denial."
Posted On: Wednesday, Dec. 12 2007 @ 5:42PM[/list][/list]
Evangelical says:
I can't say anything negative about MKP, since I haven't experienced it. I have been invited by a very nice man who is becoming my friend. I cherish our friendship and have taken interest in MKP for his sake, not my own. The only fulfillment in my life that I ever needed was Jesus Christ. I have a male accountability mentor and a pastor who I can open up to. If I needed to confess anything to get healing in my life, conquer my fears, and get back to the heart of who I am, I pray to God through Jesus. Honestly, no sarcasm intended. I can see how alcoholics and drug addicts might find benefit from this, since they are seeking deliverance. Maybe this has helped them, but in the end, you will still have a void in your heart. God put it there, and it can only be filled by God through a relationship with Jesus Christ.

Being a Christian, my problem with the Weekend Warrior training is that any spiritual rituals that were created by native American Indians, would be considered idol worship, which God is clearly against. This is one of the commandments, Thou shalt worship no other Gods before me. It is also written to shun the appearance of evil. The forms of worship that I need to get my spiritual life right are clearly listed in the bible. Nude campfire discussions with wooden penis sticks and men are clearly not listed. As a matter of fact that sounds very homosexual. The men in the mankind project that I met at a introduction meeting all seemed pretty soft, and talked kind of with this gay soft tone. This is what I recall. It doesn't mean ya'll are gay. God loves all men, and wants a relationship with them. He does not tolerate any other form of spiritual rituals or encounters with ancient pagan Gods, that are designed to bring healing. He is the healer, the author and finisher of our faith, let Him fulfill that void in your heart.

In all humility and respect, Jesus loves you.
Posted On: Monday, Feb. 11 2008 @ 12:21AM[/list][/list]
Steve L. says:
I am absolutely amazed at some of the comments that I have read regarding MKP. I am a practicing Christian, a man who believes deeply in the Bible and in Jesus Christ, and I have experienced the weekend first hand. I got more healing out of one weekend than 2 years of professional counseling, in fact, my counselor suggested I go. Some of the "Men" who wrote these comments either live in fear or hide behind a key pad. Men like Greg, Richard B, and S Byers I feel sorry for you guys, because in my judgment, you didn't trust the process and my guess is that you’re still hiding from life. Maybe the types where mom took your manhood and you didn't have the courage to take it back. Sound familar?

I had some serious issues from physical and emotional abuse from my father that I worked on at my weekend. I am happy to say that it gave me an opportunity to forgive him. I needed the healing that took place on that weekend to be able to become a better father to my children.

As far as the men who volunteer, in my judgment they are very qualified. You could never become leader or co-leader without putting in hundreds of hours of training.

My hat is off to the men who put their time, money and love into helping these men. From my viewpoint, God and Jesus Christ himself bless this process.

And for all you "Men" who wrote these lies slamming MKP, all I can say is, poor you.
Posted On: Sunday, Mar. 9 2008 @ 9:44PM[/list][/list]
robin Bishop says:
Folks,
I stand in total agreement with many here who have actually experienced ManKind. The comments in this article are not based upon anything I experienced when I went through the training 6 years ago.

A piece of advice, If you have significant repressed rage without the skills in dealing with it, don't go to Mankind. Get the counseling you need. Mankind is not meant to pull together the deeply troubled man. The way I see it, they had to find someone to blame, so all of this kids problems - a half a life of gathering those problems cannot be weighed against a weekend where the person can opt out at any time. I can only wonder if in their grieving they would not be better off in the frivelous lawsuit game they find themselves in.
Posted On: Thursday, Mar. 27 2008 @ 2:44PM[/list][/list]
DonS says:
One general comment and one personal message to "Evangelical".

First to Evangelical ... My initial reaction to your post was anger. It was only a moment, but it was there nonetheless. Frankly, I pity closed-minded uneducated persons such as yourself. When it comes to the slightest understanding of Native American spirituality, it's clear you know exactly nothing, as most evangelical Christians. I was raised Christian and still carry many of its teachings, but your ignorance is glaring in the fact that Native peoples are far more "devout" than the vast majority of Christians, and to that very same God you claim possession of. The "pagan gods" you mention simply don't exist in Native spirituality and never have.

Pardon the inflammatory nature of this statement, but your attidude is PRECISELY the same perspective that brought down the Twin Towers. You're right, and everyone else is wrong and are going to Hell. This in itself is mental illness. This in itself is contrary to Christ's teachings, as it is to any spirit open to God's Will. Christ did not take prostitutes by the hand and say, "Worship ME." He said "Walk in my footsteps." You worship the Man, not the principles, not the will of the Creator of all things. The Man was a guide, not a god.

Blinded by the concept that he was the Son of God, you consider him to BE God, when He was only an offspring, just as all things in His universe are His offspring. Intolerance of other nations, creeds, creatures and Nations of Creation has left you in a dark pit of ignorance. Christ tolerated, and indeed, tried to uplift the pitiful. I suppose I'll need to tolerate and pity your ignorance to fully respect Christ's teachings.

The general comment I mentioned is that I am only just now learning and investigating the ManKind Project and find only one (serious) flaw. Well, technically a pair of flaws.

People with personal experience have generally piped in to this blog with positive, and the negative comments clearly display inherent anger ... making me believe they have a predisposition for the negative despite the generally positive reality.

My comment comes from more than 20 years of exposure (I am white) to Native American spirituality and philosophy. I caution both people within the MKP and those seeking its healing, that at NO TIME should nudity be a part of anything related to Native American practices. This is not simply a "taboo" but has a strong basis in acquiring balance. Modesty is not shame, and shame is a negative, but modesty (humility) itself can be a healer. Native American practices emphasize a spiritual path, not a physical one. Physical health is literally critical and sought, but nudity is both unnecessary and opens mental, emotional and spiritual pathways to "impure" thoughts and actions.

Never, ever participate in a nude sweat ... period. This is particularly true for mixed gender lodges, but always true in any case. Formerly nude lodges should be disassembled and burned, and preferably relocated.

Additionally, "Inipi" [Lakota] or any other Native Purification Lodges should not take place without the consent and participation of a Native elder or spiritual person. Without that, it is simply disrespectful to Native culture and spirituality. It is, in fact, repugnant.

Haven't we shown them enough disrespect in the last 500 years? Would you Catholics let a Protestant conduct a High Mass? Would you Jews allow a Buddhist to perform a bat or bar mitzvah? Should untrained non-professionals counsel troubled, ill people?

Take a sauna or or a steam bath, but I encourage you to disassociate yourself from the ceremony if there isn't a sanctioned, educated, experienced participant to conduct it.

Neither of these points should be taken lightly.

I'll be happy to communicate with anyone on this blog. Being a true warrior is the willingness to face the enemy. Unlike some, I'm not hiding behind a screen name. Simply post your contact.

DonS
Posted On: Monday, Apr. 7 2008 @ 10:29PM[/list][/list]
NYC says:
I want to add my name to the list of men who feel New Warriors is a wonderfully positive organization doing good work for men around the world. I have personally witnessed marriages (heck, even lives) turnaround for men who have participated in MKP.
I am sad that there is so much controversy over an organization whose only purpose is to do good things on the planet and help men be better men - no matter what their background or religion. If society cannot embrace something like this, then there truly is little hope for mankind!
Posted On: Saturday, Apr. 26 2008 @ 11:37PM[/list][/list]
BH says:
Having been through the training, I can say that it is not for everyone. I have received great benefit from the weekend and have seen others benefit as well. Some were disapointed. But I have already recommended the training to a few of my friends. I went in with the desire and willingness to face some of my issues; I think that is the key. There is a strong sexual component to the training just as there is a strong sexual component to being a man. As for "turning" people gay or straight, that idea is laughable. I was not forced to do anything during the weekend, or abused in any way. In fact I felt more respect that I had ever felt before.
Posted On: Thursday, May. 1 2008 @ 9:19AM[/list][/list]
George says:
I think judging from the many posts that fully support MKP without question that the real issues in MKP will continually fall on deaf ears. Some say MKP is not for "unstable men". I have personally known a man who did not consider himself "unstable" who after years of recovery in AA and NA joined the warriors, became very grandiose, became a leader and then is found dead of a drug overdose. Or another who was "stable" and did hard emotional work in MKP, became grandiose and then destroyed all of his relationships around him and a community organization became paranoid and then completely isolated himself for years. Yes, people may have many turns in their life - but in these two cases it was like they were posessed by some inflated self destruction and the Men in MKP were the last to question it. WE ARE ALL VULNERABLE! Even if you think all your problems have been solved by MKP and you feel that you are at a peak you may also may find yourself falling of the mountain.

I have seen positive transformations in MKP. And have gained from my experiences as well. I will never deny this.

BUT I will also never deny that I have also seen many many disasters!!! I have also seen real bullying of the weak in MKP as leaders pushed them to be "real men" not considering that the trauma these men may be experiencing may have a very complicated ethical delimna to it. I have seen coersive pracitces. Group thinking, follow the dogma, don't think for yourself, financial and sexual exploitations, not to mention a constant repetition of annoying cliches and platitudes disguised as wisdom. I have seen men pushed and pushed without any understanding that grieving takes it's own time and needs to be a time of respect not a time of forcing men to grieve.

MKP has had many problems in the past athat were not faced promptly and MKP needs to face this fact. And in my judgement MOST of the problems stem from things you can find in a psychology textbook; negative transferance/counter transferance, inflated grandiosity, decompensation, group compulsive sadism where people become sadistic and do not know what posessed them because the rest of the group was doing it. Not to mention real mental illnesess men may have without knowing it.

If MKP does not face these rather basic facts I feel the organization has very little integrity nor accountability. But this would not surprize me as many in MKP have projected "sick" or "immature" or "whimps" or whatever bs onto all men who do not jive with their dogma!

I have often seen MKP as not a place where men really eat their shadow, and gain a sense of their vulnerabilities, but find as many ways as they possibly can to project their shadows onto others. When MKP men call others whimps you know that somewhere there is a real weakness in the one speaking that can only come out by diminishing another person.
Posted On: Tuesday, May. 13 2008 @ 3:37AM[/list][/list]
Jason says:
I recogize that this article was written to raise awarness about the Mankind Project. My judgements are that this was written from hear say. I went through a weekend in 2005 and it has had the most amazing positive affect. More so than I could ever imagine possible. I am able to look at my feelings and figure out why I have the feelings. I grew up in a house of anger and learned that ugly rage at a young age. The Mankind Project provide a safe place for me to look at that and change how it effects me.I am supported my a comunity of men I love and trust.I also found my own mission that I can take into this world. My mission is : By being open minded and connecting to everyone in a loving way, I create a world of acceptance and joy. so I ask whats your mission?
Posted On: Sunday, May. 18 2008 @ 8:54PM[/list][/list]
John says:
Read any and all of the posts found here and then use the feelings, the likes, the dislikes, the momentum you feel inside you and attend an MKP I-Group meeting to see for yourself. Make up your own mind, through your own experience(s). Whatever you read here is great stuff if it makes you question your journey...so what do you intend your life to stand for? In wherever your journey takes you, I invite you to be a warrior of mankind, not a follower, but a self-directed, goal oriented, life giving warrior brother.
Posted On: Monday, May. 19 2008 @ 12:45AM[/list][/list]
DS says:
I've considered all the posts above.

I'm a 22 year old student from Australia.

Perhaps the weekend isn't for everyone. I think it comes down to what the person puts into it.

To all you critics who mock before you try, i'm doing what you should do or should have done...

I'm going to find out for myself.

I'm registered in an upcoming warrior weekend.

I'll let you know how it goes.
Posted On: Thursday, Jun. 12 2008 @ 11:06PM[/list][/list]
EH says:
My (now former) boyfriend attended the NWT weekend at the beginning of May. He returned from the weekend with a presence that was palpably disturbing...just a different person, but not in a good way. Immediately following the weekend he suffered a nearly total psychic collapse and was near hospitalization. He has lost 25 lbs and concluded suddenly, last week, to dissolve our 2 1/2 year relationship. From the beginning I felt uncomfortable with this group that demands such rigorous secrecy, and after a cursory internet search on MKP I have unearthed a multitude of disturbing information. Now it all makes sense.

Let me be frank...I think this group is extremely creepy in its fanaticism and verging on cultish. The "friends" he has in the group who encouraged him to attend the indoctrination weekend, as I call it, are totally irresponsible and blind to the fact that the brand of healing the group claims to facilitate is actually ruining the life of the man I love. I have met many of the men in the group from this area whom I found to be dismissive of me, as a woman, but strangely attentive to my boyfriend's son.
Sadly, my boyfriend seems to be under the advisement and weird, manipulating control of this group. I don't trust this group or its bizarre tactics of indoctrination and brainwashing. I can only hope that he will arrive at some level of clarity before it's too late.
Posted On: Friday, Jun. 20 2008 @ 8:39PM[/list][/list]
anonymous says:
If you are ever approached about the MKP, do not, under any circumstance, get involved with them. A lot of former coworkers are or have been heavily involved in the MKP lifestyle. After each one came back from the brainwashing weekend, they were very different and very creepy. If you were not part of the of this "warrior" group, you were treated differently and left out of a lot of things. Certain elements of this new age crap were incorporated into the work place at my former job and it leaves the non members feeling very uneasy. Many of my old coworkers have left because of this. These "warriors" talk a lot about how great this stuff is and how it makes them a better man and leader and yet their actions certainly don't reflect that. It is very hypocritical. I am really glad this group is finally being exposed and hopefully it will prevent some people from getting screwed up by this them.
Posted On: Friday, Jun. 27 2008 @ 8:05AM[/list][/list]
GA says:
MKP is full of all kinds of men with all kinds of issues. So is life. The NWTA and subsequent men's meetings are not intended to replace therapy, 12 steps groups, religious groups, or any other help that a man needs.

Some men have experienced profound trauma, physical or emotional or both in their lives. These men may or may not be addicts and may or may not be in recovery, therapy, or seeking other help. If they come to a NWTA weekend, they will have an opportunity to look as closely as they are willing at the core of their pain. That experience can be traumatic in itself.

My limited experience with MKP is that awareness of the risks of re-wounding a man is very high. Men experiencing profound shame or fear are to be helped to a point of being and feeling safe - not pushed further into shame or fear. But, I believe that the experience can be remarkably painful, and remarkably healing, in the right circumstances for the right man. And, there is a risk that the man will be further hurt. I would like to see MKP more attentive to this potential issue, though I trust that the men I know involved in such potential situations will be as safe as possible.

All men and women were conditioned by their upbringing to behave in certain ways. All men and women have had to, at some point in their lives (and maybe continously), hide repress or deny a part of themselves in order to get what they needed or wanted. Many, many boys are told in our society that its not OK to cry, that real men are tough, strong, and macho, that men run the household and women are less than. Some boys are told that they are weak, that they are worthless, that they will never amount to anything. Some boys had pretty good parenting, but still had to be on their best behavior to get the goodies. Clean your plate. Comb your hair. Brush your teeth. Stand in line. Be still. Be quiet. Say please and thank you. Be safe.

If you are taught with love to be polite, you will lovingly be polite. If your impoliteness as a boy is punished with a swat on the rear or a slap on the face, you get a very different experience.

Many, many, men are hiding, repressing, or denying some true part of themselves in order to conform to someone else's expectations. I'm not talking about compromises or agreements to make sacrifices. I'm talking about the life-draining grind of fitting in to someone else's expectations instead of living your own life.

Men who are living in this place of shadow - living as if they are someone else - can come to an NWTA and not only discover who they really are, but work on healing the wounds that have caused them to live behind a false mask. Eventually, when all the wounds are healed, a man can just be the man that he was intended to be.

A man willing to transform himself in this way will have to work hard. And, his relationships will or may be profoundly affected. If a man has been wearing his mask with his wife or girlfriend, no doubt she has been wearing her mask as well. One day he wakes up and says, I'm not wearing the mask any more and I would like you to take your's off as well. Things will change in the relationship. She may not be willing or able to handle the change. He may not be willing or able to handle the change. And, they may both transform themselves and their relationship into the wonderful relationship they had always truly wanted.

MKP is training men to take off their masks and to be real. Yes, it's dangerous and creates risk to all kinds of relationships - at work, personally, and family. And, its not easy. Men will struggle with it and do it imperfectly. At times they will be overinflated and at times they will be in their fear.

It's a question of how a man wants to live his life. Does he choose to try to live a life of self discovery and self awareness, or not. If he chooses self-discovery, MKP is one, and certainly not an exclusive one, way to work on that path.

I support all men and women seeking their truth - whether it is in MKP, therapy, spiritual programs, etc. - and seeking to be their real selves. I believe that if men and women can strip off their masks and put down their preconceptions about each other, we can all co-create a loving, peaceful world.

The issues and masks that men may bring to a training like the MKP may involve their sexuality, their religious beliefs, their shame, their self-doubt, their relationships, their parents, their vocation, their manhood, etc., etc. I believe that MKP tries to make a safe place for a man to be willing to look at whatever it is so that he can be accepted as the wonderful fantastic man that he is.

Why secrecy? I believe that men have a powerful desire to figure things out. We want to know how things work. We want explanations. That's all left brain stuff. The kind of healing I'm talking about requires accessing the left brain and accessing the right brain and the old reptilian feeling brain. If I laid out here the whole process, a man would have his left brain figure it all out before he even got there and, thereby, miss out on the process of discovery.

Christopher Columbus did not have a map when he set out and sailed west. Many men told him that he would fall off the edge of the earth or that the voyage was impossible. But, he believed that he could sail west and reach the Indies. He believed in his competence to handle whatever might happen. And he was willing to take a risk.

The 'naysayers' are the men who need the map before they even start the journey. If you come to an NWTA, I'm not going to give you a map. I'm asking you to trust that if you set out sailing west, you may think that you will arrive at the indies, but you may instead discover a new world that you had not even known was there. I'm asking you to trust yourself that whatever happens, you can handle it. I'm asking you to take a risk.
Posted On: Monday, Jun. 30 2008 @ 7:45PM[/list][/list]
Greatful says:
What I think is interesting, is the focus on MKP. Through history, there have been secret organizations for men and women. At one time, Christians had to meet in secret to avoid persecution, to feel safe. The weekends are not grounded in one faith. There are men from all walks of life. No matter what, men are accepted for who they are. When I went on my weekend, I didn’t know what I wanted from the weekend. I went on the weekend on blind faith in my brother. Coming back from my weekend, I gave my wife one of the biggest hugs that I have ever given her in our marriage. My work on my weekend was one of being “Not Good Enough”, “I’m Worthless”, all the messages that I got from my older sibling. Now I realize that these were things about themselves that they projected on me. My wife was afraid that I would be brainwashed on my weekend. Guess what, she was wrong. I have my wounds, fear and anger from my past. I see them for what they are. I look at them and deal with them with the support of my Warrior Brothers. I have never been told how to think or feel by anyone in MKP. I only get out what I put into the work. My life is better for the work I do through my group. There are three generations of warriors in my family. My father went through the same weekend with me. My brother and son have gone through their weekends. All of us have gotten what we needed from our experience. My father is a good man, a man of integrity and accountability. He has found a peace that he didn’t have with driving in big city traffic. My brother is a hard working man who is trying to develop a better treatment for cancer patients. My son now has the tools to be a man of accountability and integrity. Ultimately, men can do their work on the weekend without feeling judged in the safety of a circle of supportive men.
Posted On: Friday, Jul. 11 2008 @ 10:15PM[/list][/list]
Steve Patterson says:
I am a 55 year old married heterosexual man who just recently completed the New Warrior Weekend. I don't have mental illness nor am I a drug addict. I just knew I needed some support in moving to the next step in my life. I was never threatened in any way, physically, emotionally or sexually. I was just challenged to trust and do what I needed to do to move forward with my life. I gained a lot and my wife and daughter will attest to this. For those who are whining and complaining about this organization I suggest that you also whine and complain about your life in general. This is not mankind stuff but just common sense. I took responsibility for going there, I took responsibility for what I did there and I take responsibility for what I got out of it. I am a better man for having done this training. But, I wanted to be a better man before I went in. I wasn't looking for someone to heal me or make me feel good. We have become a very weak culture. We are mostly overweight, sickly and think life owes us something. Life owes us nothing. We make our way doing the best we can with whatever we have. I didn't learn responsibility from Mankind. I didn't learn integrity from Mankind. I didn't learn tolerance from Mankind but these are the things that Mankind stands for and I support any organization that is willing to take a stand for anything. I was treated with kindness, respect and above all else a caring for me as a man to go out into the world and do better for myself, my family and for my community. Would I recommend it? Not if you are a whiner and don't want to change. Not if you are a complainer and don't want to change. Not if you are doing drugs or alcohol to avoid dealing with the pains of life. I would only recommend this training for men who desire to become better men to serve better those around them. Don't do this to get better. Only do this if you want to become the best you can be. You will only get out of this what you put in.
Posted On: Saturday, Nov. 1 2008 @ 4:11PM[/list][/list]
Jeremy Hilton says:
I am a proud warrior. I did my training in August of 2002. I was lost and entranced in my life before I did my N.W.T.A. I was lost in drugs and depression. The weekend challenged me and dug deep. I dug deep and I got the gifts for the rest of my life. It gave me an awareness to this day that enables me to be responsible and make different choices than the choices I may have made before. I am sorry the Scinto family had such a loss. I can tell you how powerful and intimidating the weekend was for me. I was scared of looking at myself and it took years for me to fully understand what had happened. I am now a strong, responsible, and caring person. I teach and learn from everyone I meet. I think he wasn't ready to look at himself and was brave for trying. I also think he didn't want to change or thought he couldn't. I'm sure he had lots of pain and didn't know how to deal with it. In retrospect, I beleive the Scinto family is ignorant of Warriors and just wants to point a finger. I've got one to point back.
Posted On: Monday, Nov. 10 2008 @ 1:38PM[/list][/list]
Rae says:
Men in today's society feel that they have to keep everything inside to be a man. The NWTA allows for men to share with other men their life's challenges without fear of being put down, ridiculed or laughed at. It was amazing to me to hear other men express feelings and ideas that I always felt were singular and that I was the only one that felt that way. MKP and the NWTA is in no way a cult, the money requested for the weekend is only used to cover the costs incurred for rent the camp site, covering the food and other necessities. It amazes me about some of the comments I have read above, obviously those who attended and feel they way they have stated did not reach the core of what is gnawing away at their life and for that I am sorry for them as it has changed my life. I feel very good every day now, look at the world and others without judgment or fear. I feel as if blinders were taken off and I can now move ahead with what I want out of life. My wife and kids, family and coworkers have noticed a change in my life and how truthful and honest I have become.

The men attending the NWTA will only get out of it what they are willing to put into it. The so called secrecy behind it, is not to keep it a secret, but is in place to allow the men to get the full extent out of the weekend without developing any preconceived ideas and thereby ruining the experience.

I highly recommend this weekend to ALL men!!!
Posted On: Monday, Nov. 17 2008 @ 3:12PM[/list][/list]


©2010 Houston Press, LP.

Ursus:
Comments on the above article, "Cover Story: The ManKind Project" (By Chris Vogel; Oct. 3 2007; Houston Press), #s 61-75:


Rosetta says:
I am the wife, likely ex-wife of an MKP guy. I have gone to Women Within, and did so because it seemed to mean so much to my husband. The reason I am likely to be an ex-wife is partly due to MKP. I cannot have any conversation without it "being my stuff" or being told my shadow is causing me to act out and on and on. He dishes out MKP mumbo jumbo everyday, and if I do not "do my work" he says we won't work. I have done lots of work...for him...weekends, circles...and I disliked them all. I am not a cookie-cutter person, and I am happy without all this gunk. MKP makes everything work...life is sucked out of everything or if things are great it is because we are doing our work. My husband is completely emotionally dependent on his MKP brothers and constantly tries to recruit people...I find it embarrassing. I went along with it for several years, but am now ready to enjoy life and not ever have to feel so controlled as I feel now.

I guess some men get something out of MKP, but my experience shows me it is the forgotten man, the oddball, the misfit who fits in the group. They suddenly have friends when they had none before. They have people to tell them how great they are and call them on their "Stuff. But it gets old fast...move on boys...and girls in the WW groups.

One thing I'll add that I should not add is that they will accept any man...even one who has molested his daughter...oh...but that was years ago and it is all about forgiving. I find him creepy...and my husband should have not broken their trust by telling me...or I would not be able to tell you.

I cannot leave my real name or email until my marital status changes. I am risking writing anything at all. I would like to alert anyone who wants to join or who has already joined that once you become emotionally addicted to the group you will not see what is real and if you are going so you have a better life, try something with trained professionals. If you join MKP and are married, you will find that you are likely to ruin your relationship. They say you will get your balls on the weekend, but I say they will take them from you. You will think you are a stronger man, but from the outside we can all see that you have shrunk. You will be blinded by it all and will not see it while you are enmeshed.

But you will do what you want to do...so to you I say "live and learn."

Good luck!
Posted On: Friday, Feb. 13 2009 @ 3:36PM[/list][/list]
aside says:
My experience with MKP lends itself to possibly damaging at worst to an interesting experience at best. MKP's NWTA and subsequent training is amateur in its Jungian therapy approach. The leaders of the weekend tend to be relatively intelligent, however usually have no professional training in counseling. There are of course exceptions to this rule. The men who join the group are typically looking for something. Most have 'failed' in there life's pursuits by their own admission. Some have success but still seek something that is missing from their spiritual walk. As a result they make it up. As does MKP, "make it up" as they go. Most religions could be accused of making it up as they go, however MKP steeps itself in a soup of various pagan, druid, and native american belief systems. Interestingly, none of the beliefs represented by the group are Christian in any shape or form. The idea of compassion enters the groups ideals, however there is no mention of the term 'sin'. The ideas of personal 'integrity' and accountability' are of great importance to the group, however the nature of the emotional work done in the group allows for abandoning of any real personal responsibility. Of these idea integrity can mean just about anything, because the group asks all members of the group to "Take care of yourself first". Thus a group member is out of integrity first with himself if he does not "take care of himself" even if he has responsibilities to others. The Jungian self indulgence is rampant. Men in their 50's are still exploring the sins of their mother and father against them. I wish that I could say this New Age group was harmless. As for me, I am taking care of myself in the comfort Christ.
Posted On: Tuesday, Mar. 17 2009 @ 1:41AM[/list][/list]
awakened says:
My experience with MKP lends itself to possibly damaging at worst to an interesting experience at best. MKP's NWTA and subsequent training is amateur in its Jungian therapy approach. The leaders of the weekend tend to be relatively intelligent, however usually have no professional training in counseling. There are of course exceptions to this rule. The men who join the group are typically looking for something. Most have 'failed' in there life's pursuits by their own admission. Some have success but still seek something that is missing from their spiritual walk. As a result they make it up. As does MKP, "make it up" as they go. Most religions could be accused of making it up as they go, however MKP steeps itself in a soup of various pagan, druid, and native american belief systems. Interestingly, none of the beliefs represented by the group are Christian in any shape or form. The idea of compassion enters the groups ideals, however there is no mention of the term 'sin'. The ideas of personal 'integrity' and accountability' are of great importance to the group, however the nature of the emotional work done in the group allows for abandoning of any real personal responsibility. Of these idea integrity can mean just about anything, because the group asks all members of the group to "Take care of yourself first". Thus a group member is out of integrity first with himself if he does not "take care of himself" even if he has responsibilities to others. The Jungian self indulgence is rampant. Men in their 50's are still exploring the sins of their mother and father against them. I wish that I could say this New Age group was harmless. As for me, I am taking care of myself in the comfort Christ.
Posted On: Tuesday, Mar. 17 2009 @ 1:45AM[/list][/list]
Moco says:
TO ROSETTA: I hope you will one day log back on and give an update to your story. It was very insightful.
Posted On: Sunday, Apr. 12 2009 @ 7:58PM[/list][/list]
George says:
Reading through these posts what disturbs me is the all bad posts and the all good posts. Both positions seem equally untrustworthy. There are many positive things in MKP but there is much to criticize and believe real serious dangers that MKP seems on an ongoing basis not to consider. The total praise by some Men here is evidence that the critical faculties of these me are somehow seriously impaired or very much in denial or both. The completely negative reviewers seem utterly closeminded, exaggerate the facts or are simply lying. There are some very positive aspects of MKP and other aspects which I believe harm men and not help in anyway to heal. But here the 100% positive & the 100% negative reviews seem to contribute to the dung heap which obscures the real issues of abuses in MKP, or negative effects for some men. My request for all MKP men is to question and continue to question MKP. Withou real critism MKP will remain in denial. And I strongly believe their is not enough questioning with in MKP.
Posted On: Sunday, Apr. 26 2009 @ 8:25PM[/list][/list]
James says:
I did the weekend in 2005 and noticed how many of my friends became "obsessed" with staffing i-Groups, weekends, etc. If I was not involved in MKP, then my friends would avoid me. I had to make a clean break for it.

Furthermore, there is a strong number of men who are recovering addicts. There is a strong correlation between those who currently attend meetings (such as AA) and participate in MKP events.

While I agree there comes a point when people must accept responsibility for their actions, there also comes a point when people must "move-on" and live their own lives, even if that means leaving MKP and rekindling with loved ones.
Posted On: Monday, Aug. 3 2009 @ 11:56PM[/list][/list]
XnObserver says:
One thing that is clear to me is that from reading many of these posts, MKP New Warrior Training is not for everyone, especially those who are weak in their commitment to Christ or who fear the faiths of other men.

I am astounded by some of the outright fabrications and fear posted by some people here. On the other hand, several postings contained perspectives that appeared to have negative ramifications for those individuals that experienced the training or had a loved one go through the process. Personal growth sometimes realizes great change.

Having gone through the MKP weekend my experience and epiphanies are listed below:

1. This weekend was about tolerance and integrity.

2. My heterosexuality was not threatened nor was I expected, encouraged or motivated to participate in any homosexual thoughts or actions. I entered as a straight man and departed as a straight man confident in my masculinity and love for my partner.

3. Even though the weekend was not religious or profess any particular spiritual focus, I did experience a positive appreciation for the diversity of enlightened thought expressed by other men and their belief in a greater divinity. If anything, it strengthened my faith in Christ and the truth I know and own. Hearing about other mens' faiths reinforced my belief in Jesus, comfort and the promise to humankind.

3. I recognized through my own "aha" moments that there were emotional realities that possibly contribute to physical and mental behaviors that I may not desire. Being aware of these realities gives me the ability to control whether or not I let those emotions control my life. Fear, Hate, Joy and Sadness are power feelings that used to guide the tiller of my life.

4. The training is just a marker in time and my own emotional growth. What I do with it is mine only and not transferable to anyone else. What another participant chooses to do with the experience is up to them. The one thing that weekend will not do is destroy one's faith or truth. If anything, it might help a person articulate what he already knows about himself.
Posted On: Sunday, Aug. 23 2009 @ 3:47PM[/list][/list]
John Warrior says:
I just want to add my 2 cents here--though it may not matter at this point. I too was a skeptic of MKP before going. Matter of fact, I listened to all fear mongering stories and details taken out of context and encouraged others to not go without having attended myself.

Years later, as my life was falling apart, and after much counseling, I met some MKP men on a different retreat and was so impressed with them that I had to go. I wanted and needed such caring men in my life. My life hasn't been the same since. My MKP men's group is better than my local Church for me.

All this grose exaggeration about abuse, comparisons to hazing and fraternity is much like how the Native American Indians were seen--barbaric, ungodly, dangerous, and practicing anti-god rituals because they were different and more earthy. And just like they did back in the day, this article takes parts and sacred aspects out of context to scare men away and make this out to be some strange cult. But you need to ask yourself, why is this international organization growing and has thousands and thousands upon members if its merely just shame to bring men in and abuse them or convince them they are homosexual? Now, I myself know, having been a part of Church denominations both national and international, no church is alike. You can have abuses in one particular church or even within one denomination of churchES while others are absolutely wonderful. So too, I don't doubt that would happen in MKP, the boyscouts, etc. But that doesn't mean the whole organization should be characterized in dark shades of abuse or how one group of men or even one man does things.

Anyone can call confidentiality secrecy if you want to and make that a negative term like MKP holds some kind of abusive agenda. But counselors and doctors also use confidentiality for a purpose. And its clear here in the posts that men have missed the purpose behind MKP's confidentiality and rather assume it was for the purpose of their own bad experiences.

Men: Don't walk to MKP, Run to MKP. There is nothing on this weekend you cannot opt out of doing if you are uncomfortable with it. You do not have do anything you don't want to. I came in as very fundamental to my religion but just chose to take some risk and be with people that may believe differently then me and it really challenged me and changed me and still does today. And I've totally lost my fear of being with people with different beliefs or no beliefs in a higher power and love them tremendously. And isn't that what people of faith are suppose to be about?

Give it a chance, and stop living in fear, and in the death of other men's negatives experiences. MKP is an international organization with tens of thousands of men worldwide who wouldn't be here submitting themselves to abuse. Men are waiting for you.
Posted On: Friday, Sep. 11 2009 @ 9:15PM[/list][/list]
Scott Schafer says:
Glad to see that comments provide some balance to this article.

Everything has the potential for harm - playing football or seeing a doctor can be extremely harmful or even fatal. The MKP project is specifically designed for personal growth, and so it pushes men outside of their comfort zones. However, at least during the weekend I attended, the staff were very careful not to push men too far.

The secrecy of the proceedings during the weekend is presented in this article as some sort of nefarious plot, but if a man I knew was preparing to do the weekend and asked me what was going to happen in detail, I wouldn't tell him. I'd keep the "secrets" NOT out of a desire to protect the organization, but because I don't think it would benefit the man to know what was coming next. Knowing gives you a chance to form intellectual defenses, and the benefit of this weekend (in my experiences) comes from being undefended, from learning to trust other men and access parts of yourself that may be buried under shame and fear.
Posted On: Tuesday, Oct. 20 2009 @ 1:56PM[/list][/list]
SeekingTruth says:
A lot mre information about MKP can be found at:

http://rickross.com

http://forum.rickross.com

Use search term 'mankind project' on both sites.

ST
Posted On: Thursday, Nov. 5 2009 @ 9:43AM[/list][/list]
Elliott Velo says:
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Posted On: Monday, Feb. 8 2010 @ 8:49PM[/list][/list]
Porfirio Hsing says:
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Posted On: Saturday, Mar. 6 2010 @ 1:49AM[/list][/list]
"Tom X" says:
Meh, I think the new warrior training weekend (that's what it's called right?) is to narcassisitic personality disorder as LSD is to schizophrenia. I was in recovery and left because my sponsor encouraged me to do this, his spnoser btw was MKP and a freemason, and so was his sponser above him. People just don't come back 'right' after this weekend from what I've gathered. It costs a bunch of money too... I would really encourage men who feel they have been abused by this program to overcome their shame and share thier stories. Cause that's another thing that seems to go on during these weekends, abuse. Is the goal of the weekend to make you vunerable or invunerable... either way is f'd up. smoke a f'ng joint. oh, and go ahead and stone me, I'm already stoned :D
Posted On: Monday, Mar. 8 2010 @ 7:33PM[/list][/list]
T says:
I completely agree with "Tom X." These people are a cult who prey on individuals who are in vulnerable states - whether it is addition, "coming out" issues, whatever. It frightens me how many therapists send their clients to these sessions - especially knowing that most of the staff are not qualified and educated in psychology. It is so damn irresponsible. I did the weekend in 2005; got out for a while; jumped back in; and left for almost 2 years now! I am so much happier away from MKP and those people in Houston. Another point to consider - once you leave the cult, if you did have friendships or ties to people, you are cut off. They still call me for money, but I refuse to contribute because I do not believe in their "mission." They are a money making cult.
Posted On: Sunday, May. 23 2010 @ 7:19PM[/list][/list]
anonymous says:
My husband just got back from his weekend. He says it was an entirely positive experience and seems ok, but I am desperately unhappy. He has all these secrets now, where we do not keep secrets in our marriage. He shares all this with 50 other men personally, and tens of thousands in the organization, but it's a secret from me, mother of his 2 kids, wife of 11 years.

Now we keep secrets from one another. Thanks, Mankind Project.
Posted On: Tuesday, Jun. 1 2010 @ 2:31PM[/list][/list]


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