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Offline Ursus

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Re: HAPA -- an LGAT, SGAT, w/e...
« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2008, 05:29:46 PM »
Thank you kindly, Joe and the O'Leary family, for that... er, brief interlude... And now, back to binnis...

·

Just who is Lee Mortenson? Here's his bio along with his wife's, as presented on their website:

-------------- • -------------- • --------------

Relationship Training, LLC
Support for your intimate relationships with others and with yourself


About Us...

 

Lee E. Mortenson: Personal Background

Lee was born in Chicago, Illinois in 1948. Over the next five decades, he received 4 academic degrees, founded several successful businesses and wrote and edited a large number of publications in professional journals. (For more details on Lee's professional and academic history, click here).

While his professional career was externally rewarding, his personal life lead him to deeper introspection and on an entirely different journey. By the early 1990's, Lee had been married and divorced three times. While he had all of the standard signs of "success", he was depressed and recognized that he was a party to all of the "failures" of his marriages. His successes didn't seem to "feed" him in any meaningful way.

At first, Lee sought professional help, then was involved in a number of local and national Men's groups, attending the New Warriors weekend initiation adventure in 1992 and, in the late 1980's and early 1990's, managed several regional gatherings of men at Buffalo Gap, West Virginia. Each of these experiences helped him to understand a little more about his inner issues, and when he began a new relationship with Carol, he decided it was time to dig deeper. This lead to a decade long involvement with Doug and Naomi Moseley, two teachers who focus on relationships to others and to yourself. Over the past decade, Lee moved from an occasional workshop attendee to an interest in assisting in Intimacy Training. In 2003 he began a four-year apprenticeship with the Moseleys, working with clients and groups. In 2008, he and Carol join the Moseley training staff, assisting with some of the week-long trainings in Taos, NM, in addition to their practice in Maryland.

 

Carol Kirkland: Personal History

Carol was born in Chapel Hill, North Carolina in 1954. After attending business school and the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, she worked in the pathology department at UNC, at an otology practice in Nashville, Tennessee, and finally at ELM, where she served as Vice President for the firm's large Association Management Division for 17 years. Carol retired in 2002.

Carol had been married twice before she and Lee entered into a relationship... and she was hesitant, to say the least, about the "M"-word (marriage). And, to a man with two young children... dangerous territory, indeed! Developing a strong internal relationship in addition to a relationship with Lee that is vital and strong and the challenges of being a step-mother have all been part of her work over the last decade. Carol began to attend Moseley-led intimacy training workshops in 1998, and three years ago, entered into their training apprenticeship, working with clients and facilitating groups. In addition to her Relationship Training activities, she will be serving as staff on week-long trainings for Intimacy Training in New Mexico during 2008.

Lee and Carol as Partners

First in business, then in relationship, and now as Partners in Relationship Training, LLC, Lee and Carol have worked together as partners for more than two decades.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2008, 09:05:47 AM by Ursus »
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: HAPA -- an LGAT
« Reply #16 on: February 05, 2008, 07:25:19 AM »
Poor fellow. In Ursus's gunsights.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Ursus

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Re: HAPA -- an LGAT
« Reply #17 on: February 05, 2008, 01:27:21 PM »
From my previous post, emphasis added:
Quote
At first, Lee sought professional help, then was involved in a number of local and national Men's groups, attending the New Warriors weekend initiation adventure in 1992 and, in the late 1980's and early 1990's, managed several regional gatherings of men at Buffalo Gap, West Virginia. Each of these experiences helped him to understand a little more about his inner issues, and when he began a new relationship with Carol, he decided it was time to dig deeper. This lead to a decade long involvement with Doug and Naomi Moseley, two teachers who focus on relationships to others and to yourself. Over the past decade, Lee moved from an occasional workshop attendee to an interest in assisting in Intimacy Training. In 2003 he began a four-year apprenticeship with the Moseleys, working with clients and groups. In 2008, he and Carol join the Moseley training staff, assisting with some of the week-long trainings in Taos, NM, in addition to their practice in Maryland.

New Warriors weekend initiation adventure is put on by The Mankind Project. This group has earned a spot on Rick Ross's Cult Watch site. The lineage of its evolution even includes an early disciple of Werner Erhard from back in his est days.

Here is a promotional YouTube clip put out by the organization:

    Mankind Project New Warrior Training Adventure Testimonials
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFdLLyRzbto[/list]

    And here are a couple put out by one its fans:

      ~ IS THIS A HE-MAN WOMAN HATERS CLUB? ~
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubMzPZAX9h8[/list]
        REAL MEN DON'T APOLOGIZE - not A BIT OF ME
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vxl-wvDc8Es[/list]
        « Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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        Offline HG

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        Re: HAPA -- an LGAT
        « Reply #18 on: February 07, 2008, 01:50:03 AM »
        Mankind project sounds familiar. Is it connected to Sterling?
        « Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

        Offline Ursus

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        Re: HAPA -- an LGAT
        « Reply #19 on: February 07, 2008, 10:15:18 AM »
        Quote from: "HG"
        Mankind project sounds familiar. Is it connected to Sterling?

        The Mankind Project was founded in 1985 by Rich Tosi, Bill Kauth, and Ron Hering. One of the primary indoctrination tools they use is called the New Warrior Training Adventure.

        • Rich Tosi - former Marine - 10 yrs, served in Vietnam, worked as an Industrial Engineer for General Motors for awhile;
        • Bill Kauth - Masters degree in Psychology, self-styled feminist, experience with Gestalt psychology, author of A Circle of Men: The Original Manual for Men's Support Groups;
        • Ron Hering - PhD in Curriculum Studies, university prof(?), seminar leader, professional coach, 25 yrs personal-growth training experience.
        Kauth attended a seminar called "Understanding Yourself and Others" put on by David DuRovy and his wife Patricia. This particular seminar was facilitated by Rich Tosi. DuRovy later became an initiate of the New Warriors Training Adventure.

        Kauth and Tosi, with or without Hering (conflicting stories), soon later attended a workshop called "Men, Sex, and Power" put on by Justin Sterling. This seminar is now simply called "Sterling Seminars." Much of the seminar's content formed the basis of NWTA. Sterling was an early disciple of Werner Erhard in Werner's earlier incarnation. (Sterling Seminars also has a spot on Rick Ross's site.).

        Both Kauth and Tosi are still involved with MKP in various ways, although they also do their own thing, which is another story in and of itself. Ron Hering was murdered by his girlfriend's father for allegedly molesting his granddaughter. MKP has seen fit to honor his memory by creating the "Ron Hering Mission of Service Award" for outstanding New Warriors. (Hey, come to think of it, that's kinda like becoming a member of the Sumner Hawley Society, eh?).
        « Last Edit: February 07, 2008, 10:23:31 AM by Ursus »
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        Offline Anonymous

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        Re: HAPA -- an LGAT
        « Reply #20 on: February 08, 2008, 04:26:03 AM »
        Maybe a little strange. But this is more about Mr. Mortenson's passed, not what he does now.
        « Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

        Offline Ursus

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        Re: HAPA -- an LGAT
        « Reply #21 on: February 08, 2008, 01:15:17 PM »
        Quote from: "guest"
        Maybe a little strange. But this is more about Mr. Mortenson's passed, not what he does now.

        Not necessarily... Although I don't know what Lee Mortenson's activities with MKP currently are, I don't think he and his wife would have brought it up and put it on their website, if they did not consider it relevant to, or at least in philosophical accord with, the work they do now.

        Their website, RelationshipTraining.net, appears to be part of a small "web ring" of sites that all connect to one another. Although it isn't "officially" designated as such, if you go to any of these other sites, they all list each other as "affiliates" or "partners."

        http://www.relationshiptraining.net  (Lee Mortenson and Carol Kirkland)
        http://www.relationshipcounselling.ca  (Lisa and Ken Little)
        http://www.consciouslives.com  (Gail Waldman)
        http://www.intimacytraining.com  (Doug and Naomi Moseley)[/list]
        All of the people noted in the first three sites underwent, or are in the process of completing, a 4-yr training program in "The Moseley Method," taught by the couple noted in the last site. There are actually even more "disciples" and some of their sites noted on the Moseley's site, on the "Retreat Staffing" page. I'm getting the impression -- which may very well be wrong, of course -- that coming back to work as staff for retreats on the "Mother Campus" may, in fact, be part of the whole arrangement in getting this "training" in the first place.

        Do note the Numero Uno quote on the Testimonials page of the Moseleys's site:

        "I'm so grateful for your help in opening me up to the
        parts of myself I couldn't see and the shadows and patterns
        I only knew of vaguely and uncomfortably. Now that I see
        these I can do something about them and choose a lively,
        engaged life with my wife that was impossible before."

        Alan Gilburg, executive in Mankind Project, Washington, DC

        Perhaps more importantly is the similarity in the lingo I see used in both MKP material as well as Moseley-related material... I have come across phrases and concepts like "working with your Shadow" (or "Shadow-work"), the "Integrity of the Container," "digging deeper," and "feeding relationships"... Anybody hear any of this language at Hyde or HAPA functions?
        « Last Edit: February 09, 2008, 01:11:32 PM by Ursus »
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        Offline Anonymous

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        Re: HAPA -- an LGAT
        « Reply #22 on: February 09, 2008, 09:32:01 AM »
        « Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

        Offline Anonymous

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        Re: HAPA -- an LGAT
        « Reply #23 on: February 09, 2008, 12:16:52 PM »
        Quote from: "Ursus"

        All of the people noted in the first three sites underwent, or are in the process of completing, a 4-yr training program in "The Moseley Method," taught by the couple noted in the last site. There are actually even more "disciples" and some of their sites noted on the Moseley's site, on the "Retreat Staffing" page. I'm getting the impression -- which may very well be wrong, of course -- that coming back to work as staff for retreats on the "Mother Campus" may, in fact, be part of the whole arrangement in getting this "training" in the first place.

        ((((LMFAO))))  Just sub in "Hyde" for "Moseley" and "character development" for "Moseley Method". What is this four year training? Highschool for parents going thru midlife crisis?
        « Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

        Offline Ursus

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        Re: HAPA -- an LGAT
        « Reply #24 on: February 09, 2008, 01:08:04 PM »
        Also... Aside from the similarity in lingo used, check out the general tenor of the "Moseley disciple" sites, especially when it comes to the personal bio pages. It's almost as if a single entity either set up or "polished up" each website. Each bio tells essentially the same tale, with but minor variations of:

        • a successful and rewarding professional life, generally financially rewarding as well;
        • confession of a previously stagnant personal life, one which was not "feeding" one enough;
        • the recognition of the need or desire to change and "dig deeper;"
        • several years spent taking workshops and the like from the Moseleys;
        • consequent restored meaning to their lives, and renewed life to their relationships;
        • embarkment on the 4-yr training program with the Moseleys;
        • creation of their own relationship coaching endeavors, complete with personal website.

        Note also the general construction of the sites; looks like the same template was used for all of them. The icons used for the URLs are all the same (which, incidentally, is the also same icon used for the HAPA site).

        Earlier, I posted the About Us page from Lee Mortenson & Carol Kirkland's site Relationship Training, LLC ("Support for your intimate relationships with others and with yourself"). Here is the analogous page from Lisa & Ken Little... Actually, it looks like it really is primarily Lisa Little. Ken makes his living being an attorney in Calgary, according to testimony allegedly left by him on the Moseley's site.

        It would appear that the Littles are not quite as far along in this process as our HAPA friends in suburban Washington-DC are. If I read the material correctly, they may not have finished their 4-yr apprenticeship yet, and the site does not yet have a Testimonials page...



        Relationship Counselling  
        For a more intimate relationship with yourself and others

        About Lisa Little

         

        Lisa was born in Niagara Falls, Canada in 1955. She attended the University of Calgary where she received her Undergraduate degree in Psychology and her Graduate degree in Counselling Psychology. She is a Chartered Psychologist.

        Her professional career has included support for autistic children and their families and five years working at a residential treatment Centre, Woods Homes, with behaviorally and emotionally challenged teenagers and their families. In the late 80's, she accepted a position as a tenured faculty member with Mount Royal College, providing support in the Counselling Department and teaching Psychology courses in the Behavioral Sciences Department.

        Five years ago, Lisa chose to leave her academic position to strengthen her parental support for her teenage son and launched Relationship Counselling to support individuals and couples hungry for more intimate relationships with themselves and others. The practice uses a unique emotional-body focused approach to relationship, based upon the work of Douglas & Naomi Moseley.

        On a more personal note, Lisa has been married to Ken Little for almost 25 years. Most of these years were spent living in a brother-sister type of relationship and there was little emotional and sexual intimacy between them. Years of withholding from one another contributed to the deadening of the relationship and the Littles were close to separating when they were referred to the Moseleys.

        Recognizing their own need for a change, Lisa and Ken have been doing their personal and relational work together for the past seven years and, having experienced the richness of doing a deeper type of work, joined a small group of students in the Moseley four year apprenticeship program.

        « Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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        Offline Ursus

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        Re: HAPA -- an LGAT
        « Reply #25 on: February 10, 2008, 10:00:55 AM »
        And... Here, below, is Gail Waldman's About-Me page. Gail is also in the suburban Washington-DC area. In fact, I first came across her name on the Testimony page of Lee Mortenson and Carol Kirkland's "Relationship Training" site:

          "I would highly recommend Lee and Carol to anyone
          who is looking to learn more about themselves and
          their relationships. Lee and Carol are skilled and caring
          guides who have a knack of getting to the heart of an
          issue. If you are seeking clarity, I'd give then a call."

            -- Gail Waldman, personal growth coach
            North Bethesda, Maryland
            [/list][/list]

            In fact, it would appear that there is an awful LOT of mutual testimony going on around here...



            Conscious Lives
            Conscious Relationships with ourselves, our families and our world

            ...  A Note from Gail

               


            Gail Waldman, President
            Conscious Lives, LLC
            Personal Growth Coach


            When my first husband and I separated in 1984, my fear propelled me into a whole new professional life. Suddenly I was single; totally on my own for the first time. I needed a career that generated some real income... and I needed it fast.

            New York City, where I was born and grew up, is an expensive place to live. My educational background, a BA in Psychology from Adelphi University, and a decade of business experience in law, advertising, publishing and fashion sales were a strong base and I wanted to be self-sufficient. I found a good match in work as a Certified Personnel Consultant (CPC) working for over 20 years, matching employers and employees and eventually serving as a VP at two publicly traded employment service agencies.

            After more than a decade as a single self-sufficient professional, I met Arnie Waldman, who later became my husband. It was during our rocky courtship that I decided it was time to dig deeper. The prospect of another failed relationship was daunting after having already tried traditional therapy and after having attended many personal growth workshops. Both of us were successful in business, but intimate relationships were another story.

            Originally I believed that the problem with our relationship was Arnie and I needed to get him fixed. I later learned that we each needed to do our own work before we could expect our relationship to work.

            I began work with a couple who focus on intimacy and relationship. That couple, Doug and Naomi Moseley, are excellent teachers... and over most of the last decade I've gone from client to student to coach.

            Today, life is very full. Arnie and I have been married for 8 years. My family and I are no longer estranged and, in fact, I hunger for more time with them! I have a new home and community of nurturing friends in Maryland. I have discovered that vital relationships continue to change, and I must change and adapt with them. These, and many other small changes, have made my life much more exciting and fun. I feel more passionate and alive.

            If you are not living as passionately as you would like, if you have an urge to know yourself better and have more intimacy in your life, I am available to help support your journey.

                 Gail Waldman

             
            « Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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            Offline Anonymous

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            Re: HAPA -- an LGAT
            « Reply #26 on: February 11, 2008, 05:48:22 AM »
            Quote
            After more than a decade as a single self-sufficient professional, I met Arnie Waldman, who later became my husband.

            Hey!! Arnie Waldman?!! Would that be the same Arnie Waldman mentioned at the end of a recent Mankind Project publication put out by its Greater Washington branch??!!

            From the October 2007 Issue of Bullskin, a publication of the Greater Washington Center of MKP, pp 12-14:

            http://www.thebullskin.org/

            PUTTING ELDER ENERGY TO WORK ON A NWTA
                 Story by Ed Modell
                 PASSIONATE BUFFALO

            As initiators of men,
            We carry forward,
            To this weekend,
            The wisdom of the ages!

            THEME OF JUNE 2007 NWTA

                 The Ritual Elder (R.E.) role on a NWTA is primarily to shepherd blessing energy, caring for both the staff and the initiates. Curiously (if not intentionally), there is no R.E. protocol, though several protocols do assign individual tasks to the R.E. So each NWTA is an adventure in itself for the R.E. to define his role, determine his relationship to the weekend leader team, and to put his own ego aside for 72 hours, which is no easier task for any staff member.

                 The June 2007 NWTA was a particularly challenging and rewarding one for me as the R.E. because the weekend leader, Tom Pittner (formerly of NYC, now of LA) called on ALL the elders on staff to put blessing energy to work in active service. I'm sharing one unique task in the hope that it will inspire other weekend leaders to consider putting the elders to work in the same or some other creative way.

                 After the Friday morning staff meeting, Tom called a circle of the elders on staff to discuss the eight MKPI core values and an additional four values that the NYC Center has added: Integrity, Mission, Generosity, Diversity, Humility, Authenticity, Generativity, Vision, Compassion, Service, Transformation, and Accountability. He assigned one elder to each value, and to report later when the staff exhibited it. Here is an abridged version of the observations:

            INTEGRITY
                 One of the innumerable ways that I saw integrity over the weekend was the depth of feeling that Chris Hull showed doing the context presentations, particularly in the Sunday morning circle.

            SERVICE
                 On the GUTS floor, I have always been awed by the men who put themselves in physical danger with initiates to give them the resistance and challenge they need to break out of their heads. This weekend, Dan Logan was one of the men who did that on my guts team, while providing the additional amusement of instinctively going for a one-leg takedown with an initiate who started to turn his process into a wrestling match. And Dan did his usual job of being everywhere for facilities with whatever was needed. Let's never take the facilities men for granted.

            GENEROSITY
                 I saw many demonstrations of generosity.

            • The giveaway by MOS/Hearthkeepers as they held the container, freeing the staff from the need to worry about buying food and preparing meals.

            • The giveaway of our community with more than 30 brother dancers showing up Saturday night.

            • The giveaway of the men on staff, giving up their time to support the new brothers of this weekend.

            • The giveaway of staff men supporting other staff by mentoring and, when needed, assisting them in getting assignments done.


            AUTHENTICITY
                 I judge that one of the hardest times to be authentic is when we know we have given all we are and all we have and recognize that it was not enough. I recognized that on the GUTS floor several times and was grateful when senior men stepped in. Rob Ozello took the additional step of telling the staff meeting that with one man, he simply lacked the skills to help, was grateful that Tom Pitner came over.

            DIVERSITY
                 Geographical, Physical Appearance, Age, Years of Experience with MKP from Rookie Energy to X+ Staffings, many attributes that are visible or voiced, are acknowledged diverse energies of men at this weekend. What emerges, swirls among the container, bubbles up with power and energy, are the Gifts; Gold of each man that is profoundly diverse that provides for the richness at this weekend and moving out to the world that is THE WISDOM OF THE AGES.

            HUMILITY
                 I feel that Tom Pitner embodied this principle so well. He exemplified for me what I sense the Warrior Monk should be (even though I have never taken that training), low-key, but with tons of strength in reserve. I also felt that David Kaar exemplified this trait, yet willing to play second fiddle to Tom, whom he had mentored. Our organization is definitely in good hands, with leaders like these two men.

            MISSION
                 Our mission was clearly carried out this weekend, with intention, ease, and peace. This weekend modeled how it is when a mission is fulfilled with peace at the center. We were more than enough, and I was honored to be among this team supporting it and keeping watch over it.

            COMPASSION
                 I had to bless and honor my own compassion before I could bless and honor compassion when I saw it in others. And I saw it a lot, but most especially on the guts carpet as initiates and staff looked deeply into the face of the suffering of the initiates who were working. Without the level of compassion that is present at GUTS, the magic could not happen.

            ACCOUNTABILITY
                 I saw 40 staff men keeping their commitments, from filling out their forms, attending the pre-weekend staff meeting, showing up authentically, preparing their parts, being where they needed to be BEFORE they needed to be there, speaking their truth, taking risks, parking their egos for the sake of the new brothers, holding these new brothers in their hearts in a good way, protecting and cleaning up the site to honor our commitment with Claymont and planning a worthy celebration to honor them.

            GENERATIVITY
                 I witnessed the unassuming nature of our Elders in their support of other men online and offline. I was touched by the care we all took to share all we had with the next generation of Warriors. We all did great work sharing wisdom and knowledge throughout the weekend. The moments with Tom Pitner, as he assisted and worked with two young men with very challenging issues, sticks out for me. As a rookie staffer, I became more aware of how much I have to share as an Elder.

            TRANSFORMATION
                 To mine the gold from your shadow. The two types of transformation I believe I saw most often in men on the Weekend were: (1) Men who felt fear and walked into their fear. (2) Men whose egos traditionally constrained them released themselves from those constraints on the Weekend to serve the Initiates and fellow staff members. After I spoke to men about these shadow-mining behaviors I saw them confronting their fears and setting aside their egos. I saw many more behaviors where I would have liked to engage a man, but but The Journey Continued and I never got back to that man.

            VISION
                 I witnessed Vision in many ways on the weekend:

            • Tom Pitner's guiding principle that the strength of the container was created by the focus of the individual men on the moment, on the union of the container and on the integrity of the container.

            • Numerous examples by numerous men putting aside their egos and wants to maintain the union and the integrity of the container.

            • Facilitation on the guts carpet (such as by Steve Shofar & Jon Wilson) which cut through the details of the story to the core of the man's work.


                 As Ritual Elder, I felt uplifted by the elder energy and I judge the rest of the staff and the initiates were as well. So I conclude by thanking the men who contributed their elder energy, many of whom also contributed their observations to this article: Clinton Anderson, James Brown, Michael Clawson, David Dozier, Mike Fallon, Mike Harrison, Todd Lowenberg, Randy Marks, David Morgenstein, Max Sampson, James Stamps, Arnie Waldman, Richard Warren, Mike Weiner, and Eric Weinstein.
            « Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

            Offline Jesus H Christ

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            Re: HAPA -- an LGAT
            « Reply #27 on: February 11, 2008, 06:51:44 AM »
               That all sounds pretty queer.  "Passionate Buffalo?" 
            « Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
            sk and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.

            Offline Anonymous

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            Re: HAPA -- Party Time !!
            « Reply #28 on: February 11, 2008, 08:12:37 AM »
            At the behest of Passionate Buffalo, I come with many Brother Dancers to seek audience with the Galled One. I wish to mine the gold from his shadow. Is it "bend-over-Joe" time yet?     
            « Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

            Offline Anonymous

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            Re: HAPA -- an LGAT
            « Reply #29 on: February 11, 2008, 09:59:11 AM »
            Pass me the "Sacred Stick" there, Brothah!!! I have something to share in Circle.
            « Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »