Author Topic: Reading People V. Emotional Basketcases (who wins?)!  (Read 2076 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Reading People V. Emotional Basketcases (who wins?)!
« on: January 03, 2008, 12:47:11 AM »
I don't know if this topic has been brought up before here but I think this has been one of the most prominent things that has happened as a result of my feakish experience.

I was fairly fortunate after I graduated in that I actually got an oppurtunity to leave near a friend from my peer group who has since become my best friend.  We lived in the same city for a couple of years and spent time almost daily.

I remember it being a really big deal to us that we felt like we were substantially more skilled than everyone else that we knew in things like understanding why people did things, when someone was lying or full of shit, and bar none the world heavyweight champions of mental and emotional manipulation.

This seemed like a double edged sword to us though because while yeah, its handy to 'be able' to call bull shit in a moments notice in the world, its almost never wise to.

What also made it worse was we were college age.  Bright kids, had girlfriends, smart friends, etc.  The thing was it was really dificult when we tried to explain these observations to our girlfriends as they sort of resented it and were kind of insulted and offended and basically had the opinions that we were incorrect and that even though we went to the school we were no more intuitive or hip to bull shit than anyone else. It was impossible to explain to a non-goer what the hell we meant.  We knew what we knew, but were treated upon explaining with a mixture of jealousy and denial that we were like that.

On the other hand, it sort of made us psychological wild cards or damged goods if you will in the social hierarchy.

Writing this now, in hindsight I don't know who was correct anymore.  I do know that I am quite an odd bird.  The thing is I've always been unique, So..?  Did we just think we were more perceptive because of the severe emotionality of the past experience; were we more perceptive just simply because we just happen to be bright individuals but attributed it to Super Psychology Training Camp.

I don't know.  Anyone have any thoughts?  I need a break to digest a minute.

Peace,

icomeanon
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline alia23

  • Posts: 49
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Reading People V. Emotional Basketcases (who wins?)!
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2008, 06:10:18 AM »
hey :)  this sounds to me, based on what i am going thru now, that you were probably wrong.  that what you sensed as denial and jealousy, was probably just people feeling hurt over what seemed to you to be very insightful observations.  but were trained to see things wrong.  your friend and you were both trained to see the same wrong thing, that makes it feel right to both of you, but it doesn't really make it true...

what i've learned is that when i think i see something in someone, and they tell me i'm wrong, i take them at face value.  it requires trust, and it requires the painful realization that my instincts can be so wrong, and the further pain of betrayal in knowing why my instincts can be so wrong (cedu), and all that can be very hard and humiliating.  it can be much easier to 'stick to my guns' and follow the arguement through, demonstrating how cleverly i worked it all out, but at the end of the day if it's wrong, its wrong, and all my explaination doesnt change anything.  

but thats only when i'm wrong.  sometimes people say, yeah, that makes sense, but when they say no that's not me, i try to be extra careful to respect that.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
lia
your silence will not protect you

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Reading People V. Emotional Basketcases (who wins?)!
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2008, 06:27:03 AM »
when your identity gets fucked with thte way that those places did, and makes you question your own principles the real rock bottom, and forces you into a box of compliance through any coercive means available within reason you get a less well adjusted teenager than you would've if his peers had parented him instead of sadistic staff from cedu or even their own dumb dumb parents!




-my two cents
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Reading People V. Emotional Basketcases (who wins?)!
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2008, 11:44:58 AM »
probably just people feeling hurt over what seemed to you to be very insightful observations.  

This is sort of not exactly what i meant.  Its not like I pointed out what I observed in my girlfriend and told her what was wrong with her.  I just wanted her to understand what I went through and where I was at in a social context because of it (ie. a very low bull-shit threshold); and it seemed she resented my "hyper-maturity".

But yeah, your right.  Just having the opinion of being more intune with reality and being hyper-mature makes it not so, right?

but were trained to see things wrong.

how so?

i take them at face value.  it requires trust, and it requires the painful realization that my instincts can be so wrong

try to be extra careful to respect that.

Yessss.  I think hopefully I've over-compensated because of these past experiences and try to be extra-accepting of people's right to choose to do and be whatever and whoever floats there boat.  Not my place to tell them shit, if it has nothing to do with me.

I do think it is really important to be super respectful of people's space, especially since I know what I went through there and understand, both sides, that these 'skills' are a deficiency because of the environment in which they were obtained being different than any other environment.


Cool.  Thanks for writing back.  It helped me think of a side of it that I hadn't.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline AuntieEm2

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 330
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile
Reading People V. Emotional Basketcases (who wins?)!
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2008, 05:49:59 PM »
IMO, take it or leave it, there is something that happens in families that are dysfunctional, especially when addiction is present. You get very skilled at reading subtext. Whatever is said, you find yourself searching for the real message that is unspoken. So if your alcoholic step mom says, "You're going out? That's fine," you are skilled in reading all the subtle signals and body language that tell you going out is not at all fine with her. And you stay home. You read the subtext and respond to the subtext, not to what's actually spoken.

This skill can get your emotional wiring all screwed up, even if there are benefits to being able to read people.

If we can call a program a dysfunctional family for the sake of argument here, then you would probably have developed a better than average BS detector, but it may come with short-circuited emotions. (For example, I may know I'm being lied to, but not know how to work out the anger and frustration I feel.)

How you work this out with the people you are closest to is tricky. Not trusting people is really tough road to take in life, and not accepting that all people are flawed can set an impossibly high standard for a loved one to live up to. But you can be aware of the subtext without being captive to it. You can choose to go out even when step mom is trying to manipulate you into staying home.

I am continually puzzled by the dual program outcomes reported by so many of you here that you felt both deep humiliation and a soaring sense of superiority. I don't mean to put words into anyone's mouth. But I wonder how those two co-exist.
 
Auntie Em
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Tough love is a hate group.
"I have sworn...eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." -Thomas Jefferson.

Offline stina

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 247
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Reading People V. Emotional Basketcases (who wins?)!
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2008, 09:34:52 PM »
Quote from: ""icomeanon""
I was fairly fortunate after I graduated in that I actually got an oppurtunity to leave near a friend from my peer group who has since become my best friend.  We lived in the same city for a couple of years and spent time almost daily.

Ok, I'm supposed to be cleaning my house right now (self imposed but still) but I just came across this and need to say something. I lived in SoCal after I graduated and had a pretty decent support system as far as recent grads. One in particular. We were connected at the hip for years and I still consider her one of my best friends and absolutely my family. It seriously made all the difference. We would take turns convincing ourselves that we weren't insane. That might be a strong word but it gets the point across.

Quote from: ""icomeanon""
I remember it being a really big deal to us that we felt like we were substantially more skilled than everyone else that we knew in things like understanding why people did things, when someone was lying or full of shit, and bar none the world heavyweight champions of mental and emotional manipulation.

I don't think we ever felt more skilled necessarily, we recognized that we knew more about human nature and behavior than a lot of people...just going on my challenge gave me that feeling of have having more clarity at one point than a lot of people will ever have (and I don't say that to sound condescending or superior). But yeah, your eyes are open, you can sense bullshit, but that doesn't necessarily mean that you're immune, especially when you have emotions involved. It just makes you feel worse because somehow you know you're getting into a situation that's going to work the shit out of you. And let me be clear about this...regardless of whatever else RMA did, it gave me a clearer idea of who people are. And it's been a huge hindrance until I realized how to regulate it (it would have been nice if that was something they had taught us...but according to original Synanon protocol, no one ever went back into the "real world", not really)

Quote from: ""icomeanon""
This seemed like a double edged sword to us though because while yeah, its handy to 'be able' to call bull shit in a moments notice in the world, its almost never wise to.

Yeah, I found out really quick that people don't like to called out, even gently.

Quote from: ""icomeanon""
What also made it worse was we were college age.  Bright kids, had girlfriends, smart friends, etc.  The thing was it was really dificult when we tried to explain these observations to our girlfriends as they sort of resented it and were kind of insulted and offended and basically had the opinions that we were incorrect and that even though we went to the school we were no more intuitive or hip to bull shit than anyone else. It was impossible to explain to a non-goer what the hell we meant.  We knew what we knew, but were treated upon explaining with a mixture of jealousy and denial that we were like that.

Like I said, resentment. No one likes to be told that they're seen, regardless of what walls they think they've established.

Quote from: ""icomeanon""
On the other hand, it sort of made us psychological wild cards or damaged goods if you will in the social hierarchy.

No way. Wild cards maybe, damaged goods, never. I won't accept that. Like I already said, it's a matter of regulation, and finding people who are open to you, who you are, where you've been, people who love you for who you are and are willing to listen to what you have to say and actually hear it and respond. They may have been wrong on a LOT of things, but I still believe that being a real friend means being honest. Not that I've always practiced it, it can be scary sometimes, especially when it will cost you someone you love.

Quote from: ""icomeanon""
Writing this now, in hindsight I don't know who was correct anymore.  I do know that I am quite an odd bird.

Being an odd bird is a blessing. You were one before you went and that's always going to be who you are, but being unique is a gift, and maybe 90% of the population won't like or appreciate it, but there's always that 10%...

Quote from: ""icomeanon""
The thing is I've always been unique, So..?  Did we just think we were more perceptive because of the severe emotionality of the past experience; were we more perceptive just simply because we just happen to be bright individuals but attributed it to Super Psychology Training Camp.


I think it's a mix. I've found that everyone has to find their own individual way of incorporating it into your life. Because it is a part of your life, for better or worse, it's there. You push it down, it's just going to find a may to manifest itself, and usually not in a good way...speaking from personal experience. What do you think?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
I used to be Snow White but I drifted.

Offline stina

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 247
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Reading People V. Emotional Basketcases (who wins?)!
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2008, 11:57:08 PM »
Quote from: ""AuntieEm2""
I am continually puzzled by the dual program outcomes reported by so many of you here that you felt both deep humiliation and a soaring sense of superiority. I don't mean to put words into anyone's mouth. But I wonder how those two co-exist.Auntie Em


I wouldn't call it a sense of superiority, at least for me, it has always been more a sense of isolation...seeing and feeling things and not knowing if they were appropriate to share or not. Like I've already said, it's about regulation of both worlds (for me anyway, I don't want to make this anyone else's deal), they're both a part of everything whether you like it or not, it just is. And especially about trusting your instincts and not being scared to put yourself out there. It's hard. That's the place I'm working towards right now. Trusting all of myself.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
I used to be Snow White but I drifted.

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Reading People V. Emotional Basketcases (who wins?)!
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2008, 12:32:44 PM »
I remember feeling the superiority.... as if I'd been given some secret key... But I still walked around trying to live by code, thinking it was okay to call everyone on their bullshit any time, any place.   Half the time, these people were just living life and being normal, but CEDU doesn't recognize that. I did feel I had a heightened sense of consciousness... I remember thinking everyone so shallow and they just didn't get it.   I couldn't really connect because I felt above it all, and nothing outside of CEDU matched its intensity and urgency. I didn't get that that was a contrived existence, and what was real was regular.  I kept looking for those transcendent moments in every relationship, in every event... and there were none, or few.  I kept expecting everything to feel like I went bungee jumping... and it didn't. I was bored... and also, not accustomed to living without some level of fear or anxiety. The ability to relax, chill out, and not sweat the next rap was alien at this point.

It took me a long time to see the extraordinary in the ordinary and appreciate simplicity.

shanlea
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
slowness - Go for Broke
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2008, 03:20:46 PM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
people were just living life and being normal,

 I kept looking for those transcendent moments in every relationship, in every event... and there were none, or few.  I kept expecting everything to feel like I went bungee jumping... and it didn't.

shanlea



Yea, I'm with you in the lack of intensity in normal life.  And for many years I've been struggling with just that.  At "CEDU" everything was so 'meaningful.'  Everything matered in what seemed like life or death.

And then I got out and everything seemed like it crawled at a snails passed. Like life was watered down. And so I've been seeking out that meaning ever since.  That intensity in life that I've been able to find only by living on the road; in drugs; in being broke and making it just by a hair.  I need that passion and meaning, that every moment in life does matter and if we're not constantly in the middle of a miracle then we're not making progress in changing the world.  Making it a better place.  Enidng starvation.  And wars.  And meaness.  And people flipping out and treating each like objects and pieces of trash and lack of sensitivity and care for others and like they're the only ones that matter.

So, here I am, after putting myself in innumerable 'crazy' positions just to feel excitement of being part of something meaningful.  Plan is to chill out for minute now and try to express myself and grow some actual stationary roots...i'm blabbbing on now so i'll stop.  But I know they're has got to be other people that feel exactly this way; and I hope that there is a solution and if I can't figure it out myself than collectively it can just be cool.

lovin' you guys. we're good people and have no reason to hang our heads.

Doah is a good and loving friend  smirk lol
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline stina

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 247
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Reading People V. Emotional Basketcases (who wins?)!
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2008, 04:34:37 PM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
I did feel I had a heightened sense of consciousness... I remember thinking everyone so shallow and they just didn't get it.   I couldn't really connect because I felt above it all, and nothing outside of CEDU matched its intensity and urgency. I didn't get that that was a contrived existence, and what was real was regular.  I kept looking for those transcendent moments in every relationship, in every event... and there were none, or few.  I kept expecting everything to feel like I went bungee jumping... and it didn't. I was bored... and also, not accustomed to living without some level of fear or anxiety. The ability to relax, chill out, and not sweat the next rap was alien at this point.

It took me a long time to see the extraordinary in the ordinary and appreciate simplicity.shanlea


That actually struck something that I hadn't even put together, I mean I kind of did, but yeah, I was really bored too. It's exactly like you said, looking for meaning in EVERYTHING because that's what you were used to. And then you see everyday people going about their lives and you're not sure how they can just mosey around like no one requested them in this afternoon's rap. Crazy.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
I used to be Snow White but I drifted.