Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > Benchmark Young Adult School / Benchmark Transitions
psy
Ursus:
--- Quote from: ""Guest"" ---
--- Quote from: ""Guest"" ---
--- Quote from: ""Guest"" ---huh?
Also, it's not anarchy over here, truly.
look, for example, i went in "normal", was tortured, and came out suicdal. Therefore, someone who goes in suicidal has a strong liklihood of ending up dead. They're weaker fromt he start and easier to hurt. it's not complicated
--- End quote ---
That the standard program mix of brainwashing and abuse is bad and that kids have varying degrees of susceptibility to it are axioms to me too.
But to the best of my knowledge there are NO known or even rumored suicides discussed on the Hyde forum. (I'm counting on Ursus to find one or two counterexamples, though. :wink: )
Conclusion: The link between programs and suicide is negligible to nonexistent.
--- End quote ---
Your conclusion makes no logical sense from your supposition
Look bitch, my best friend went into program a happy outgoing girl was "ruined" by program, and promptly killed herself. I went from being "normal" to SERIOUSLY mentally ill. I had a personality split, "autism"- a constant trance like state that lasted almost two years, suicial obsession..and other issues i won't get into. STOP THE BULLSHIT. TORURE DESIGNED TO DESTROY THE BRAIN ACTUALLY SUCCEEDS IN DESTROYING THE BRAIN. Go away troll
And i doubt that beleif you have about Hyde.
Ursus, want to answer some questions? I don't really understand hyde anyway. It doesn't sound like a program, exactly.
--- End quote ---
Okay, Mike and Guest... The issue of suicide has been discussed but spottily on the Hyde forum, but it has been brought up. I think people are ashamed/embarrassed; it is a difficult subject to broach. It would appear as though one of the coping mechanisms for surviving the Hyde bullshit is to incorporate a certain amount of arrogance or braggadocio into one's persona. I think we've seen this again and again, even with otherwise very personable sorts. Perhaps this might help to make the incidence of suicide less? I don't know...
To my knowledge, there was only one case of an actual death at Hyde, and this was during the 1987-88 school year. The causal factor was attributed to an enlarged heart. Incidentally, this was also the cause attributed to the kid who died after being in the Ring at Elan.
I think the "danger period" for suicide is actually in the ten or so years after you get out, when what you've been indoctrinated in for the past several years meets the "real world," and the juxtaposition of the two do not comport. I think program puts you in the frame of mind to judge things as absolutes, much like AA does regarding one's drinking or falling off the wagon. Joe Gauld used to say that if you can't make it at Hyde, then you can't make it anywhere. The corollary being, of course, that if you fail at Hyde, you've failed at life.
As to actual bonafide cases, NC's death was rumored to have at the least a very great assist from suicidal intentions. I don't think she was in great shape when she came to Hyde; circumstances prior to her enrollment would have suggested some serious and nurturing therapy, and that is certainly not what she got at Hyde. You know that she had tried before she even got to Hyde, Mike? SF also tried a few years post-Hyde; that was definitely tied into what happened to her there. There are a couple of other kids who went through some serious rough spots, but those kids are either dead due to "other causes" or I've lost track of them. I've lost track of most of them so the fact that I can even bring up some says something. And then there is myself, of course.
It is at this point, Mike, that you usually do your typical about-face and try to skewer me for my words, and you might as well go right ahead; have at it, buddy. I don't give a shit. I think the mere fact that you are trying to poke holes in Benchmark's culpability in George's death just about says it all, as per where you are coming from.
I've read a few posts of other Hyde kids that intimated consideration of this route, but I don't actually know those people well enough to vouch for that. Again, it is really hard to track cases, 'cuz people that don't do well there tend to disappear. And I don't think this kind of stuff usually shows up immediately after you get out. For a while, you're running around like a chicken with your head cut off, trying to "prove them wrong." Then... reality, and fatality, sets in.
As to Guest's question about Hyde being a program or not, I suppose everyone is entitled to their opinion. My opinion is that it most definitely is. It fucks with your mind and sucks out any capacity to critically assess the relative value of your life's experiences. Perhaps not everyone that went to Hyde feels that way, but I found it to be a very crippling influence on my life. There is no doubt in my mind that I would have lived my life differently, and more fully, had I not gone to Hyde. And that is about the most pathetic understatement I can come up with today.
Take it from Vanda M, "recent" Hyde graduate, Landmark Forum devotee, and currently enthralled with Ramtha's School of Enlightenment: "I've been involved in cults all my life, ha ha!" (spoken in a 2006 radio interview vis a vis Hyde, and her going back for her diploma nigh 30 years after her last attendance there).
Anonymous:
--- Quote from: ""Ursus"" ---
--- Quote from: ""Guest"" ---
--- Quote from: ""Guest"" ---
--- Quote from: ""Guest"" ---huh?
Also, it's not anarchy over here, truly.
look, for example, i went in "normal", was tortured, and came out suicdal. Therefore, someone who goes in suicidal has a strong liklihood of ending up dead. They're weaker fromt he start and easier to hurt. it's not complicated
--- End quote ---
That the standard program mix of brainwashing and abuse is bad and that kids have varying degrees of susceptibility to it are axioms to me too.
But to the best of my knowledge there are NO known or even rumored suicides discussed on the Hyde forum. (I'm counting on Ursus to find one or two counterexamples, though. :wink: )
Conclusion: The link between programs and suicide is negligible to nonexistent.
--- End quote ---
Your conclusion makes no logical sense from your supposition
Look bitch, my best friend went into program a happy outgoing girl was "ruined" by program, and promptly killed herself. I went from being "normal" to SERIOUSLY mentally ill. I had a personality split, "autism"- a constant trance like state that lasted almost two years, suicial obsession..and other issues i won't get into. STOP THE BULLSHIT. TORURE DESIGNED TO DESTROY THE BRAIN ACTUALLY SUCCEEDS IN DESTROYING THE BRAIN. Go away troll
And i doubt that beleif you have about Hyde.
Ursus, want to answer some questions? I don't really understand hyde anyway. It doesn't sound like a program, exactly.
--- End quote ---
Okay, Mike and Guest... The issue of suicide has been discussed but spottily on the Hyde forum, but it has been brought up. I think people are ashamed/embarrassed; it is a difficult subject to broach. It would appear as though one of the coping mechanisms for surviving the Hyde bullshit is to incorporate a certain amount of arrogance or braggadocio into one's persona. I think we've seen this again and again, even with otherwise very personable sorts. Perhaps this might help to make the incidence of suicide less? I don't know...
To my knowledge, there was only one case of an actual death at Hyde, and this was during the 1987-88 school year. The causal factor was attributed to an enlarged heart. Incidentally, this was also the cause attributed to the kid who died after being in the Ring at Elan.
I think the "danger period" for suicide is actually in the ten or so years after you get out, when what you've been indoctrinated in for the past several years meets the "real world," and the juxtaposition of the two do not comport. I think program puts you in the frame of mind to judge things as absolutes, much like AA does regarding one's drinking or falling off the wagon. Joe Gauld used to say that if you can't make it at Hyde, then you can't make it anywhere. The corollary being, of course, that if you fail at Hyde, you've failed at life.
As to actual bonafide cases, NC's death was rumored to have at the least a very great assist from suicidal intentions. I don't think she was in great shape when she came to Hyde; circumstances prior to her enrollment would have suggested some serious and nurturing therapy, and that is certainly not what she got at Hyde. You know that she had tried before she even got to Hyde, Mike? SF also tried a few years post-Hyde; that was definitely tied into what happened to her there. There are a couple of other kids who went through some serious rough spots, but those kids are either dead due to "other causes" or I've lost track of them. I've lost track of most of them so the fact that I can even bring up some says something. And then there is myself, of course.
It is at this point, Mike, that you usually do your typical about-face and try to skewer me for my words, and you might as well go right ahead; have at it, buddy. I don't give a shit. I think the mere fact that you are trying to poke holes in Benchmark's culpability in George's death just about says it all as per where you are coming from.
I've read a few posts of other kids that intimated consideration of this route, but I don't actually know those people well enough to vouch for that. Again, it is really hard to track cases, 'cuz people that don't do well there tend to disappear. And I don't think this kind of stuff usually shows up immediately after you get out. For a while, you're running around like a chicken with your head cut off, trying to "prove them wrong." Then... reality, and fatality, sets in.
As to Guest's question about Hyde being a program or not, I suppose everyone is entitled to their opinion. My opinion is that it most definitely is. It fucks with your mind and sucks out any capacity to critically assess the relative value of your life's experiences. Perhaps not everyone that went to Hyde feels that way, but I found it to be a very crippling influence on my life. There is no doubt in my mind that I would have lived my life differently, and more fully, had I not gone to Hyde. And that is about the most pathetic understatement I can come up with today.
Take it from Vanda M, Hyde graduate, Landmark Forum devotee, and currently enthralled with Ramtha's School of Enlightenment: "I've been involved in cults all my life, ha ha!" (spoken in a radio interview vis a vis Hyde, and her going back for her diploma nigh 30 years after her last attendance there).
--- End quote ---
Do you mean NC with a capital Nina? I heard she died in a car wreck.
Now Ursus, you know you are not being fair to me by portraying me as coming from that place where people absolve programs. You know full well I've spent the past year taking apart the Hyde clock and putting it back together. But, and your post bears me out, suicide is not endemic to Hyde, even though Hyde is as much a brainwashing and abusing facility as any.
The reason I'm touchy about what strikes me as a false allegation is owing to Che Gookin, aka TheWho, aka Botched Programming, aka you name it. At exactly the same time he barged into the Hyde forum like he owned it, although he's unaffiliated with the school, and I asked him not to dishonor the memory of a certain Hyde teacher, we were hit, literally five minutes later, by a plague of incredibly vile and truly pathological polls and posts from various personae claiming to have been Hyde students sexually molested by this teacher. The idiot didn't make it too hard to figure out the author. The idiot utterly defiled our discussions, and what was a vital, vibrant, much visited forum is now a dead, smoking ruin. That's why I don't apathetically just swallow any allegation I hear on Fornits anymore. It has nothing to do with a need to absolve programs.
Mike
psy:
--- Quote from: ""Guest"" ---
--- Quote from: ""psy"" ---Well. Here are the facts: George was already suicidal. He was clinically diagnosed as bipolar. How do I know this, as well as his name? Jayne Longnecker told me when I interviewed her back in Nov of 06 (so much for patient confidentiality. or student confidentiality, or whatever...)
Yup. He was clearly a danger to himself and he wanted to get help. He didn't. Instead, he was yelled at, berated, and browbeaten until he could no longer stand it and killed himself (according to multiple eye witness accounts). He should have gotten legitimate therapy, he should have felt accepted and loved. He didn't. Benchmark advertised to be able to help him and it was criminally irresponsible (IMO) for them to accept him in the condition he was already in. They told parents I have interviewed that they had qualified counselors on staff and 24 hour supervision (yeah, I got video tape) and all that jazz. They told my parents the same. They lied.
--- End quote ---
Psy,
I'm not a substitute for TheWho, or whatever you choose to call him. (God forbid, I'm very busy and have a family to support.) Consider me rather your average open-minded jury member.
First, you impress me as a sympathetic and articulate young man. I don't get the impression that you're an egotistical two-bit con artist playing the saint. On the contrary, I trust that your intentions are honorable and good.
Here's my gut feeling given the information in your post. If you had told me that George was the picture of mental fitness before going to Benchmark I would say, Hmmm, Benchmark might really be responsible for his suicide. But you candidly acknowledge that George was suicidal when he went to Benchmark. Now, as a jury member, I believe you've already lost your case. Given the bipolar disorder, the suicidal tendencies, and possibly even the suicide attempts, you would find it difficult to prove that Benchmark caused him to commit suicide.
--- End quote ---
If you weren't qualified at all (if you are, pretend you didn't get those degrees) and had no education in psychology, would you go out and advertise to be able to help kids with depression? Would you accept a kid who had been declared a danger to himself? Why or why not? Answer that question and you can see where i'm heading with this. The only real question in my mind is whether Jayne Longnecker truly believes she is helping people, or whether she is just in it for the money. I am leaning towards the latter since if she was sincere, I don't think she would need to lie to get parents to enroll their kids.
psy:
--- Quote from: ""TheWho"" ---Seems what people are trying to say is that the cause of Georges death is unknown, he might have just received a letter from an ex-girlfriend or family member that effected him emotionally. We need to remember that he was suffering prior to Benchmark. If he was working at McDonalds just prior to taking his life I am sure the anti-fast food people would blame McDonalds for his death.
...
--- End quote ---
McDonalds doesn't advertise McDepressionTreatment.
Anonymous:
They do offer a McFlurry. Which is exactly what a rap/propheet is -1 big ice cream headache
-DDF
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