Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > The Seed Discussion Forum
Jason Dirk Walton
GregFL:
There you go again making assumptions that are incorrect, Mr. Anon.
First, Ginger is absolutely correct about one thing. Read the legal briefs. Walton was not the shooter. In typicaly bullshit fashion, the state made a deal with the shooter to testify aganst Walton in return for no death penalty. In other words, the shooters got life and Walton got death. Fair application of the death penalty? Not in my opinion.
Second, I have told you I know little about the case. I posted what I know so I could learn more. Do you have anything to offer in the way of information about Jason or about the case?
Read the title of this forum "THE SEED DISCUSSION FORUM". Jason Walton was in the Seed at the same time, same location as me. If we are to discuss the Seed, then this is a great topic.
third, you assertion there was no violence in the Seed is not supported by national publications, local newspapers, and eye witness accounts from the time period the Seed operated. Your assertion that violence wasn't supported by the staff negates the fact that we were threatened with having our parents come in if we didn't behave to "teach us a lesson" or thrown to the floor and piled on if we tried to leave. Your assertion that there were no back rooms is flat out bullshit, because they were there, behind the staff offices and I was sat in one for hours on end as was my sister and other people I know.I welcome you to come out from behind your Anon flag and review my research, but that probably won't happen. Just a percursory review of the St Pete Time article from 73-75 show accounts of kidnapping from public school grounds, beatings, etc. Remember the sexual humiliation "raps"? "You couldn't do it with a coke bottle", screamed at little girls 13 or so years old ring a bell? the humiliation of the young virgin boys? Perhaps you enjoyed this crap, but as a 14 year old pre pubescent boy, it deeply disturbed me.
Lastly, Jason Walton is likely quilty of what he did and belongs behind bars. This is no way distracts from the very interesting aspect of this case, that the court found he was emotionally scarred in the "experimental" Seed program. Whether you enjoy watching people executed or not, I find this story very compelling and right on topic.
BTW, Debbie, long time no hear! Welcome back.
Does anyone remember Jason? Does anyone remember the case?
Homeschool is self regulating. The school board is not going to have illiterate useless people living in their homes forever if they don't have a working education policy.
--Sisterbluerose
--- End quote ---
GregFL:
Anon wrote:
"Am I the only one who was in the Seed who for the past 30 years has not agonized, berated, belittled, dispaired or beat myself up because of a short 9 month window in my life?"
I have written in the past that it is amazing how different people process the same experience. Anon, the Seed may have affected you little. For some people, the whole cultic aspect overtook their families and made them choose between freedom from the Seed and their families. This can be particularly devastating to a young person. Others do not process being held in captivity and berated in front of large groups well. Still others didn't take to being broke down and rebuilt in Art Barkers image as a good childhood experience, nor did they take to public ridicule and shame during tender teenage years.
You may have enjoyed these experience immensly, but the majority of those I have spoken to don't. Please don't discount the experiences of those that don't share your viewpoint, and I won't discount yours.
Climb the mountains and get their good tidings. Nature's peace will flow into you as sunshine flows into trees. The winds will blow their own freshness into you, and the storms their energy, while cares will drop off like autumn leaves. When we try to pick out anything by itself, we find it hitched to everything else in the Universe. -- My First Summer in the Sierra , 1911, page 110.
John Muir
--- End quote ---
GregFL:
http://www.wfsu.org/gavel2gavel/briefs/ ... nisupp.pdf
Towards the back is a fairly accurate description of the Seed experience circa 1973.
This year will go down in history! For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration! Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!
Adolph Hitler
--- End quote ---
Anonymous:
In response to GregFL - Mr. Anon, can't come out of his cloak of anonymity, because he's a Woman. And further isn't that the point of anonymity!
I've read what you and others have posted about Jason Walton and read the transcript of the hearing and come to my own conclusions. After many years of working within the legal system, the Justices to me fortunately didn't seem to buy in the brain damage, damaged psyche or questionable intelligence routine that his lawyer put on the table. That's a typical criminal attorney routine in a capital case. How many times have the Justices heard that song and dance before, I'm sure too many to count. Or how about stating that Jason had inadequate counsel, isn't that a prerequisite in an appeal in a capital case? Just because Jason may have been in the Seed and been allegedly emotionally scarred or whatever by having been there, doesn't mitigate the fact that he was involved in a murder scheme, whether he was the shooter or not. And in typical laywer fashion, each lawyer is going to what he can to get his client off or to get a reduced sentence, turning one defendant against another, nothing new there, just the American Justice system hard at work. And what criminal has never said he wasn't at the scene of a crime or didn't commit the crime, none, they all allege innocence. If all the criminals are innocent, then why are there so many of them in jail? The Justices are correct, you cannot look back at a case and pick it apart with what you know now, but only with what was available then. Hindsight is always perfect, especially when you twist the facts to come to a new conclusion. Another great lawyer trick, make the outcome fit the circumstances. I feel great empathy for Jason's victims, I feel nothing for him. There is never an excusable excuse for murder, whatever the circumstances, regardless of his past. Jason made a choice to at the scene of a crime and to be involved with a crime, again, we all live by the consequences of our choices.
And I have read the articles written about the Seed by the St. Pete Times, I was born and raised there. That newspaper has always tended to be a little on the pink side and hasn't always published all the facts or truth, but their version of the facts or truth, but then again isn't that what liberal newspapers do?
In response to Debi, I don't look back at my past filled with angst over what might or might not have been, had I not been in the Seed. I wouldn't have become the adult I am now, because all aspects of my past, good, bad and indifferent and my time in the Seed as well, have helped shape me into the woman I am now. Most importantly to me, I would not have married the man I did and been married to him for 25 years and I would not have had my sons. Sure I could have hooked up with some other man and possibly have had some children, but I wouldn't have had the sons that I had. Sure I could have had a different life path, but again, I wouldn't have my husband or my sons. To wish a change in my past, would negate my present, something I'm not willing to do. My time in the Seed is a blip on what has become my radar screen of life.
As for Antigen, thank God we live in America where we are all free to believe and think as we want. Wouldn't it be a shame if we all had the same political leanings and thought processes. But for the grace of God go all of us!
GregFL:
Good Post Anon. I agree with a lot of what you said.
Certainly in a capital defense trial, they are going to try everything. I read the transcripts also and lean toward what you are saying, that Jason is probably very quilty and cannot place the blame on the Seed. In fact, I do not think from the transcripts that is what they were doing, but instead trying to commute his sentence to life. However, I find the description of the Seed in the transcripts very accurate and understand that he may have been very affected by his experience there. I know many people were.
I do disagree with one thing. I don't think it is a fair application of the death sentence to sentence Jason to death when he wasn't the shooter and then give the shooter life. then again, I am not a staunch supporter of the death penalty. Then again, I feel no grief when some monster is put to death by the state....
As far as saying the St Pete times is "pink", that is about as week a rebuttal as there is. The seed was derided by not only the St Pete times, but national publications and the senate of the united states. Those things happened, Anon, and just because you managed to skate thru relatively unharmed doesn't negate the affect on others or change the facts. There were real people who bravely told their stories 30 years ago and many local St Pete juvenile mental health workers were very concerned about the Seed and then its replacement (the straight).
As far as the Seed being a mere blip on your life...good for you! I wish I was so lucky. I lost my family for years over the seed. At this stage of my life, 30 years later, discussing it with friends has become an interesting diversion, and exposing copycat programs has become a hobby of mine. I went years without even thinking about my experiences there and am now glad to have the time, the internet and this opportunity to discuss my childhood with people who where there and understand. And the best part is it only takes a small amount of time and effort.
Isn't the internet great???
BTW, Do I know you? Email me at rocky93@tampabay.rr.com and let me know who you are. I promise to keep it between you and me.
[ This Message was edited by: GregFL on 2003-07-09 06:42 ]
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