Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > The Seed Discussion Forum

Jason Dirk Walton

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Antigen:
Ok, let me try and explain my interest in this a little bit better.

Remember the things Art used to day? Remember the claimed 90% success rate? Remember the grand projectsions about how the whole un-seedling world was going to hell in a handbasket, and only the Seedlings would survive and be sane, forthright, responsible and functional? Yeah, I know, I didn't buy it either. But some people did.

And some of those who bought it, hookm line and sinker, are almost unimaginably well connected. And they're making public policy to force children and adults into their wonder-treatment.

They don't call it The Seed anymore. They don't even call it Straight anymore. They call it the "Teen Help" industry or the "Personal Growth" industry. Instead of having group members go out and kidnap escapees and new inductees, they'll refer parents to professional 'escorts', who will drug, shackle and abduct their children from wherever they can be found and deliver them to a program.

Now, if you believed Art, you'd expect that a little research into what ever happened to all those Seedlings would turn up sucess story after success story just like yours. Greg's not doing too badly, either. And I have one brother (out of three) who just went to work for the post office, raised his kid, divorced, remarried and still, as far as I know, works for the post office. No problems, no stellar accomplishments. Just living, loving and enjoying every minute of the ride.

But that's not what happens when you go looking up old Seedlings you may have known. Instead, we find tragic story after tragic story, with a few success stories thrown in. Walton is more the rule than the exception.

The people who are publicly funding and mandating this form of treatment and the people who contribute to their political campaigns and who vote for them need to know to what they're giving their unquestioning support. If the truth comes out about this industry, it'll dry up. No one would support it on its merits.



No drug, not even alcohol, causes the fundamental ills of society. If we're looking for the sources of our troubles, we shouldn't test people for drugs, we should test them for stupidity, ignorance, greed and love of power.
P. J. O'Rourke
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Anonymous:

--- Quote ---On 2003-07-06 13:17:00, Anonymous wrote:

   During my time at the Seed, no one ever raised a hand in violence toward me, nor did I ever see any form of violence toward anyone else.  No one was ever a proponent of violence during my time in the Seed.  No back rooms, no spitting, no beatings, nothing, never an ounce of physical violence toward anyone.   In my simple mind, to compare the Seed to Straight is like running along two parallel lines, that will never intersect.  I've read the posts from both, and particularly in the Straight posts, each one is more outlandish than the one before.  It's like group hysteria.  I just don't buy it.  

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What an interesting post. Never saw anyone try to escape and thrown to the floor? Never witnessed a kid poked hard in the back for slouching?  Never heard the stories ( I was there) of parents called in to beat their kids in front of staff? Never seen a "troublmaker" sent home with the biggest baddest kids and threatened to go ahead and try to escape? Never witnessed Arthur or some other 20 year old staffer get in the face of a misbehavior and scream and spit?

I also suppose you know nothing about the Cleveland Seed and the Boxing ring, where little tiny 14 year old behavior problems were forced to fight older stronger kids?  I suppose you haven't read fuelaws ( a successfull florida lawyer) post about being beaten by a Ft Lauderdale staffer when he was about 110 pounds and 14 years old?

Where were you? Disney Land?

Then you have the stones to say you don't believe the abuse reports coming from straight. I will quote one in my possession from the Florida Protective Servicdes system for you.

ABUSE REPORT

"on 67/20/89 officer Holmes with the PPPD....did interview the victim. THere were visible bruising, on the shoulders and a fresh black and blue 6 to 8" bruise in the lower lumbar area.  This was the result of his not responding to several cues to sit up properly".

Now, you may wonder where the Straight learned this technique, to poke and "put their arms around" those that let their back touch the back of their chair, but then perhaps you have closed that section of your brain.

well, they learned it from those seed graduates that became the first Straight staff members. I got poked and prodded plenty when I was there, then, under the influence of cultic mind control, did my share of same to others. I am not proud of this, but it is the fact.

Where were you again?

Anonymous:
Where was I? I was in the St. Pete branch of the Seed from October l974 to July l975. If you re-read what you chose to quote from me, I was speaking in the lst person.  I was talking about what I witnessed during my time in the Seed.  Seems pretty obvious to me then, that I can have no personal first hand knowledge about any of the other things you mentioned, because I was not at those places and never witnessed any of those things  happen.  It goes back to the fact that I was speaking about what I witnessed during my time in the Seed. Additionally, I can have absolutely no knowledge of what it was like for the guys, because I was sitting on the other side of the aisle.  I was never "poked", but "tapped" on the shoulder too many times to count, and after while even that stopped (I spent 4 months on the front row, and after awhile I was left alone).  Now I firmly believe, that as it relates to myself, there were more than a few of the staff members and several oldcomers, who would have liked to have layed hands on me, and not in a spiritual ritualistic healing manner, but I wasn't.  I was never touched, and I never saw anyone else get touched.  I also have a memory that at some point it was decided that if someone was going to leave, then to let them go, and from then on no one was chased, and I only saw that happen twice and that was in the beginning.  I was, however, physically and verbally attacked in school, long after the Seed had closed, and that was at the hands of 3 former Seed kids (I say former, because they had left the program mid-way - and one of them had been a former oldcomer).  The just reward in that is, that the students that were around at the time of the attack turned on them, they all 3 dropped out immediately, and I was never bothered or harassed by anyone again in high school.  

As for Straight, I shouldn't have commented, I have no first hand knowledge, and for that I apologize.  

As for the Seed, I will not apologize, those are my memories, I don't any gapping holes in my memory and I did not spend 9 months at Disney Land.

GregFL:
Anon, I think the Seed meant many things to many people, and also the time frame of incarceration mattered.  I personally was there at the very beginning and group veried in size from 600 to 1000 kids. I also understand that at the end the group had fizzled out somewhat and the staff had changed.

No matter whether you personally witnessed violence tho, Being locked up in thought reform at 16 had to shape and affect your life. If you are able to take some positive memory from it, then that is probably a good thing for you. I have written before that it amazes me that two people can go thru the same journey and come out with vastly different experiences. Your experience and opinion, Anon, is just a valid as anyone elses. It is good, however, that you keep an open mind and avoid comments like violence never occured at the seed. It is well documented.




Any policy that has Ted Byfield on the same side as many Rastafarians can fairly be said to have generated a consensus.
-- Ottawa Citizen August 28, 1997

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Antigen:
I remember when I was a little kid and my brothers were in The Seed. This had to be from 1970 to maybe 1974 at the latest. The Seed was everywhere! Seedlings in the schools, Seed headlines in the papers. And, in my house, Seed language and routines ruled the day. We even sang Seed songs sometimes.

In those days, Seedlings used to go out and kidnap olddruggiefriends, brow beat them awhile till they confessed to a drug problem, then call the parents and start working on them. Can you even imagine getting that call? Maybe you thought your kid was at the beach or maybe you'd already started looking for them. Then you get this call from The Seed saying your kid is there and has asked to be treated for addiction.

Well that stopped after some legal moves and threats. Little by little, various people applied various kinds of pressure till NIDA, acting on strong recomendation of the U.S. Senate, put in place a requirement for consent forms signed by clients and guardians stating informed consent to dangerous, experimental treatment.

That was the straw that broke the megalomaniac's boom. Though The Seed continued to operate on a small scale and the core, inner circle cult is still together after all these years, they had not been the force to be reckoned with in So. Florida that they had been in their hay day.

Anon, it seems to me that the essential elements of the Program that made them strong were exactly the elements that made it so abusive. Take away the more abusive aspects of the Program and it loses necessary cohesion.


I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard was not what I meant.



---Richard Nixon
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