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Offline dishdutyfugitive

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« Reply #75 on: December 17, 2007, 07:56:59 PM »
WHO

1. Thanks for not replying to my email.


2. Please explain me. A model CEDU graduate that 17 years later is calling a spade a spade.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline TheWho

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« Reply #76 on: December 17, 2007, 08:05:50 PM »
Quote from: ""dishdutyfugitive""
WHO

1. Thanks for not replying to my email.


2. Please explain me. A model CEDU graduate that 17 years later is calling a spade a spade.


I just checked my inbox, I did not receive it.  I sent a test email to myself (just now) from fornits and it is working fine, at least today it is.
I am sorry I dont know what the second question means.



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« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline dishdutyfugitive

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« Reply #77 on: December 17, 2007, 08:07:54 PM »
You seem to have an explanation for everything.

I'd like you to explain the fact that 17 years later, I'm calling bullshit on my 'model CEDU student' experience. Please choose your answer below and show your work.

1. I'm correct because_______________(fill in the blank)__________.
2. I'm wrong because_______________(fill in the blank)__________.
3. I'm 1/2 right because CEDU was bad in 1990 and now there are plenty of good schools. (Gee, that ad-hoc, 'profit preservation' logic sounds strangely familiar?)
4. I'm crazy just because my dog taught me how to cook rice.




 I sent you this email last week....

What is ASR? Suws is a short wildneress program right? Did your daughter graduate? Has she ever shared her negative experiences with you in detail?


Did you use an educational consultant?


Have you made a list of good schools? What do you think differentiates the good from the bad?
« Last Edit: December 17, 2007, 08:31:51 PM by Guest »

Offline Anne Bonney

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« Reply #78 on: December 17, 2007, 08:25:12 PM »
Quote from: ""TheWho""

So would you find the following list typical of the TBS’s of today?  Would you tell parents this is what they should expect?:


1)   They will be systematically sexually abuse


There's a good chance they'll be exposed to hours long confessionals that include highly graphic descriptions of sexual activities.  There's a good chance that they'll be expected to relate the same, especially if the parents have informed the 'school' that the kid is sexually active.  

And yes, there's a good chance that they'll experience the generic sort of sexual abuse that you so flippantly refer to

Quote
2)    They will be worked as a slave,


Yep. I was whored out as a propaganda tool for Straight.  Others are tasked with repairing or building onto the facility they're in...busy work (digging meaningless holes...moving boulders from here to there for no purpose)


Quote
3)   Subject the kids to 6 hour a day peer denouncement sessions-public degradation-the sort practiced by the Chinese in thought reform prisons.

Ah...yep.   Albeit some better disguised as a 'kinder, gentler' version...but yep.


Quote
4)   The children will not be allowed to move unless another child gave me permission and then only with another 2 children holding me.

Depending on the facility, yes.  Some use emotional and psychological blackmail to keep their charges in line.

Quote
5)   The adolescents will have the authority to beat your child whenever they feel they break  a rule.

They may not have explicit authority, but its usually overlooked.  Like a 'code red' in A Few Good Men


Quote
6)   They beat children within inches of their lives.


And sometimes beyond.
Quote
7)   They could be put in isolation for up to 6 months.


Tranquility Bay.
 
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8)   They could also have their right to speak removed, which also had no time limit.


Yep

Quote
9)   Public forced nudity was another punishment.

Yep.  It happened in Straight sometimes.  Never saw it co-ed, but definitely in a single sex situation.  Shit, girls were routinely mocked and harassed if they weren't "applying their program".  And it was all out of "looooooove".

:roll: :roll:



Quote
10)   Adolescents will forcibly bathed other adolescents.


Yep...if a kid refuses to bathe many times they will forcibly BE bathed.

Quote
11)   Kids became sick and weren’t allowed medical treatment.


All the damn time!!!!!
Quote

12)   If your child wants to avoid being tortured, they have to torture other kids.

 
Yep.   this is a virtual guarantee but they just don't know they're doing it.  They become what they are surrounded by.  The abused becomes the abuser.  In Straight it was called "being strong" with someone.  "Holding them accountable".  What it amounts to is turning every kid into a paranoid freak, afraid to be 'reported' for unseemly behavior for fear of a setback.  Then you have conformity.  Then you get the "child creature" in my quote.



Quote
13)   Adolescents decided if you were “saneâ€
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline TheWho

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« Reply #79 on: December 17, 2007, 08:31:34 PM »
Quote from: ""dishdutyfugitive""
You seem to have an explanation for everything.
Hey, not very nice
Quote
What is ASR?

Academy at Swift River

Quote
Suws is a short wildneress program right?
Yes
Quote
Did your daughter graduate?

Yes
Quote
Has she ever shared her negative experiences with you in detail?
Well, we have spoken about it quite a bit and she shares her experiences with me.  I ask a lot of questions especially after what I have read about here on fornits.  I ask her about counselors that she liked and ones she didn’t and why.  Has she ever seen anyone severely punished or had food withheld, put into restraints or placed in isolation, forced to disrobe in front of the other students etc. and she looks at me like I have two heads.  ASR wasn’t anything even close to what people on here talk about.  She enjoys talking about and wonders how some of her friends would have turned out if they had gone there also.

Quote
Did you use an educational consultant?
No, I have a family member who specializes in child psychology and children’s issues, is a fellow at Harvard University and he recommended ASR.


Quote
Have you made a list of good schools?
No I haven’t
Quote
What do you think differentiates the good from the bad?

Wow, I am really not qualified to speak technically about the differences.  But I would say the model the school employs.  If the school is taking a clinical approach, is listening to the feedback from the graduates and parents and are willing to adjust their rules and make changes based on parental feedback and to continuously evolve then this would be a school I would want to send my child to and would recommend to others.
I would not recommend a school who had guards who beat the kids, placed kids in restraints, forced them to walk around naked, with held food etc.  I would not consider these at all for anyone.  These schools are a good candidate for regulation.


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« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #80 on: December 17, 2007, 08:32:54 PM »
Quote from: "TheWho"

So would you find the following list typical of the TBS’s of today?  Would you tell parents this is what they should expect?:


1)   They will be systematically sexually abuse

2)    They will be worked as a slave,

3)   Subject the kids to 6 hour a day peer denouncement sessions-public degradation-the sort practiced by the Chinese in thought reform prisons.

4)   The children will not be allowed to move unless another child gave me permission and then only with another 2 children holding me.

5)   The adolescents will have the authority to beat your child whenever they feel they break  a rule.

6)   They beat children within inches of their lives.

7)   They could be put in isolation for up to 6 months.
 
8)   They could also have their right to speak removed, which also had no time limit.

9)   Public forced nudity was another punishment.

10)   Adolescents will forcibly bathed other adolescents.

11)   Kids became sick and weren’t allowed medical treatment.
 
12)   If your child wants to avoid being tortured, they have to torture other kids.
 
13)   Adolescents decided if you were “saneâ€
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline dishdutyfugitive

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« Reply #81 on: December 17, 2007, 08:39:53 PM »
I visited swift river in 1997. Brett Carey who was RMA staff in the late 80's and friend of mine was one of the head staff at ASR in 97.

He and Rea Kreider are gone.  I'd love to hear the truth about why they left.


See the part you don't get is that it takes a decade or 2 to process the mental/verbal abuse, censorship and personality suppression these schools rely on. Had you asked me, 10 years ago ,  what was inherently wrong with CEDU I probably wouldn't have said anything negative about it. I would have to guess your daughter is in that 'phase' right now.

It's a 1 step forward 9 steps back scenario.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline TheWho

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« Reply #82 on: December 17, 2007, 08:40:37 PM »
Aiiiiiiiiiint!!  Anne, you failed the test.  You are living in the past, only see the world from your own experiences and cant seem to get passed it (no pun intended).  Any advice you give to parents will not help any of their kids and will probably do them harm.  I am far from an expert, but you are severely out of touch with todays programs.  

Assignment (If you choose to take it):

You should read more outside of fornits for some up to date information and maybe work on your manners.


...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline TheWho

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« Reply #83 on: December 17, 2007, 08:44:33 PM »
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "TheWho"

So would you find the following list typical of the TBS’s of today?  Would you tell parents this is what they should expect?:


1)   They will be systematically sexually abuse

2)    They will be worked as a slave,

3)   Subject the kids to 6 hour a day peer denouncement sessions-public degradation-the sort practiced by the Chinese in thought reform prisons.

4)   The children will not be allowed to move unless another child gave me permission and then only with another 2 children holding me.

5)   The adolescents will have the authority to beat your child whenever they feel they break  a rule.

6)   They beat children within inches of their lives.

7)   They could be put in isolation for up to 6 months.
 
8)   They could also have their right to speak removed, which also had no time limit.

9)   Public forced nudity was another punishment.

10)   Adolescents will forcibly bathed other adolescents.

11)   Kids became sick and weren’t allowed medical treatment.
 
12)   If your child wants to avoid being tortured, they have to torture other kids.
 
13)   Adolescents decided if you were “saneâ€
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anne Bonney

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« Reply #84 on: December 17, 2007, 08:45:04 PM »
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Aiiiiiiiiiint!!  Anne, you failed the test.  You are living in the past, only see the world from your own experiences and cant seem to get passed it (no pun intended).  Any advice you give to parents will not help any of their kids and will probably do them harm.  I am far from an expert, but you are severely out of touch with todays programs.  

Assignment (If you choose to take it):

You should read more outside of fornits for some up to date information and maybe work on your manners.


...



You should BITE MY ASS!!!!!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline dishdutyfugitive

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« Reply #85 on: December 17, 2007, 08:48:29 PM »
"Aiiiiiiiiiint!! Anne" ---- What the hell does that mean?

What's the point in reading up on an industry that needs to make amends and doesn't.  

If I were living in the past I'd be working at one of those places.

Work on my manners? Sounds like the kitchen is getting hot and your eyeing the door.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anne Bonney

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« Reply #86 on: December 17, 2007, 08:52:35 PM »
Quote from: ""dishdutyfugitive""
"Aiiiiiiiiiint!! Anne" ---- What the hell does that mean?

What's the point in reading up on an industry that needs to make amends and doesn't.  

If I were living in the past I'd be working at one of those places.

Work on my manners? Sounds like the kitchen is getting hot and your eyeing the door.



Don't sweat it.  Its what he always does after he gets
 
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline TheWho

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« Reply #87 on: December 17, 2007, 09:00:38 PM »
Quote from: ""dishdutyfugitive""
I visited swift river in 1997. Brett Carey who was RMA staff in the late 80's and friend of mine was one of the head staff at ASR in 97.

He and Rea Kreider are gone.  I'd love to hear the truth about why they left.


See the part you don't get is that it takes a decade or 2 to process the mental/verbal abuse, censorship and personality suppression these schools rely on. Had you asked me, 10 years ago ,  what was inherently wrong with CEDU I probably wouldn't have said anything negative about it. I would have to guess your daughter is in that 'phase' right now.

It's a 1 step forward 9 steps back scenario.


Yeah, I heard it is like night and day between when they started and today.  They abandoned their original model after the first year or so and then just recently have turned to a more clinical approach.  One of the things I like about ASR is that they continue to adjust and improve, if something isnt working or they get negative feedback from the parents or kids they make changes.
For example in the beginning they use to make kids sit in front of a mirror, if they broke the rules or lied etc., and had to do their studying there also.  After getting some complaints from graduates and parents they dont do that any more.

Wow, 20 years before you realized the negative effects?  I dont know what to say.. if my daughter tells me 15 years from now that the program was bad I am not sure how I would react...she is doing so well, she is happy, moving forward with her life.  I cant imagine, having allowed her to continue on her old path, where she would be today.  



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« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline TheWho

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« Reply #88 on: December 17, 2007, 09:05:21 PM »
Quote from: ""dishdutyfugitive""
"Aiiiiiiiiiint!! Anne" ---- What the hell does that mean?

What's the point in reading up on an industry that needs to make amends and doesn't.  

If I were living in the past I'd be working at one of those places.

Work on my manners? Sounds like the kitchen is getting hot and your eyeing the door.


No, that wasnt directed at you... that was in response to Anne Bonneys post, the one that posted the "Dog fighting" picture.  I never called her a dog but I think she is pissed at me for saying she is living in the past.



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« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline TheWho

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« Reply #89 on: December 17, 2007, 09:09:07 PM »
Quote
You should BITE MY ASS!!!!!


Assignment rejected.


Sorry if you think I insinuated you were a dog.  I dont even know what you look like...chill.



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« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »