willful suspension of disbelief

[Anne Bonney]

you had your chance to straighten out and you blew it, l

Whoa!!  I missed that part.  What, pray tell, did I blow?


This should be good.


 :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:

[TheWho]

Trying to "help the kids," Who?  Please, you fucking jackass.  You are here for the sole purpose of propmoting programs, no matter how abusive they are, and to bash survivors of program abuse.

Who are you to say Anne or anybody else "blew it"?  YOU blew it.  YOU failed in raising your child, not Anne.  Every time you point the finger you only indict yourself.  

You were a rich kid, given everything you ever had, given a trust fund, handed a job.  What the fuck do you know about ordinary people?  Even after being spoon fed life in it's most easily digestible form you SCREWED UP YOUR KID THEN SENT HER AWAY TO AN ABUSIVE SHIT PIT to be dealt with at the hands of a career child abuser, Rudy Bentz.

YOU blew it, Who.  YOU'RE the loser around here, not Anne.

Sorry, you seem really pissed off, but I disagree with you.  If everyone can bash parents/programmies, why can’t parents/programmies bash anti-program people?  Why the double standard?  I wasn’t any more hash with her as she was with me.
I think it is a crime to spread misinformation and to misdirect parents because of some personal views or hang-ups.  
I think it is important to remember that there are kids who need help and there are places to help them (some good and some bad) to paint them all one color and misinform these parents is doing a disservice to the kids and probably results in more harm than good.



...

[Anonymous]

TheWhore wrote:

I think it is a crime to spread misinformation and to misdirect parents because of some personal views...

This guy scores ground-zero hits on himself with astonishing regularity.

[TheWho]

Dont be so paranoid, Anne, no one was putting words in your mouth,  That post was directed to "Botched".  I think it is important how parents view fornits if they are some of the people we are trying to reach and I think they are.
If your only intention is to use fornits as a dumping ground for your anger and hatred then shame on you... many of us here are trying to make things better for the kids, you had your chance to straighten out and you blew it, lets try to help some other people out for a change.



...

Oh bite me you pathetic simp.   You are not part of this "us" you keep referring to.    I've been here for a helluva lot longer than you.  I've got a boatload more experience (direct, which you have NONE of and indirect) with this shit than you and I was around for damn near the inception of Fornits.  You have no idea what I have or have not done, save for what I've let you know.   You're just along for the ride.

Its not how long you have been on fornits, Anne, but what you know and how you use your knowledge to help others, both of which you are short on.  You only know what I have told you about me and have no idea how much I help others.
You are allowed to post here for the same reason I am, there is no level system that I am aware of.


...

[Anne Bonney]

Sorry, you seem really pissed off, but I disagree with you.  If everyone can bash parents/programmies, why can’t parents/programmies bash anti-program people?  Why the double standard?  I wasn’t any more hash with her as she was with me.
I think it is a crime to spread misinformation and to misdirect parents because of some personal views or hang-ups.  
I think it is important to remember that there are kids who need help and there are places to help them (some good and some bad) to paint them all one color and misinform these parents is doing a disservice to the kids and probably results in more harm than good.

Listen, this is a survivors forum first and foremost as has been explained to you god knows how many times.   The fact that you're a program shill and still tolerated here doesn't mean you're not gonna get a ration of shit when you post bullshit information, twist what people say, twist and distort stats and facts and in general spread disinformation.  

You try and lump yourself in with "us" as if "we" are working towards some common goal.  Trust me, we're not.  Your goal is to keep programs alive and kicking, ours is to expose them for what they are (thought reform camps, behavior modification centers, mindrape mills) and shut them down.  

If you have a kid that is so out of control that they need to be removed from the home (with proper diagnosis from qualified medical personnel) then it should be done in a medical facility under the direct supervision of a medical professional using proven methods and the patient needs to have access to due process throughout the entire course of treatment.  

If you have a kid who you're worried about because of drugs, friends, changes in attitudes or any of hte other bullshit criteria used on those stupid program websites then get fucking creative!!!  BE a goddamn parent and figure out what is going on with your kid and help them fix it.  Quit your fucking job and take a trip while homeschooling them.  Expose them to a different culture. Send them to live with a trusted aunt and uncle.  Take a barefoot cruise around the Caribbean for a few weeks.  Most of these places cost thousands of dollars so there's no reason in hell why something couldn't be done other than shipping them off to quack strangers who use methods derived from a known abusive cult.

[Anne Bonney]

Its not how long you have been on fornits, Anne, but what you know and how you use your knowledge to help others, both of which you are short on.  

You have no idea how little you know.

 :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:

You only know what I have told you about me and have no idea how much I help others.
You are allowed to post here for the same reason I am, there is no level system that I am aware of.

No, that was more in response to your arrogance and insistence on using the word "we" to include yourself with anything that "we" actually do.  See below.

If your only intention is to use fornits as a dumping ground for your anger and hatred then shame on you... many of us here are trying to make things better for the kids, you had your chance to straighten out and you blew it, lets try to help some other people out for a change.

[TheWho]

Listen, this is a survivors forum first and foremost as has been explained to you god knows how many times. The fact that you're a program shill and still tolerated here doesn't mean you're not gonna get a ration of shit when you post bullshit information, twist what people say, twist and distort stats and facts and in general spread disinformation.

You are wrong as usual, you just think you are more important than you really are.  If it was just a survivors forum then it would be made clear to the rest of us who enter.  You come on here and try to sell parents a rash of crap that isn’t true.. it is crap that is 30 years old, you and I both know that.  You wouldn’t recognize an improvement if it benefitted your own family.

You try and lump yourself in with "us" as if "we" are working towards some common goal. Trust me, we're not. Your goal is to keep programs alive and kicking, ours is to expose them for what they are (thought reform camps, behavior modification centers, mindrape mills) and shut them down.

When I say “usâ€

[Anonymous]

Here's my straight face for ya  :roll:  considering NO information is allowed outside the walls of the building, host home cars or host homes, not all suicide attempts would be 'reported'. You would have to understand how the straight inc treatment model works first, then you would see more clearly. As the statement mentioned early on, it was an independently funded and limited research project, primarily focused on the actual police reports that mentioned suicide attempts at the building. However, one were filed by host parents traveling either to and from the building or inside their host homes. I find it very unbelievable that there were none in those venues, hence the disclaimer of being a limited research project.
On a heavier note:
There was however, a kid who killed himself in 2005 less than a year after graduating from that hellhole.  :cry:  :flame:

[Anonymous]

That should read; "none were filed", not one. Jeez. more  :roll:  :roll:  sorry

[Ursus]

Here's my straight face for ya  :roll:  considering NO information is allowed outside the walls of the building, host home cars or host homes, not all suicide attempts would be 'reported'. You would have to understand how the straight inc treatment model works first, then you would see more clearly. As the statement mentioned early on, it was an independently funded and limited research project, primarily focused on the actual police reports that mentioned suicide attempts at the building. However, one were filed by host parents traveling either to and from the building or inside their host homes. I find it very unbelievable that there were none in those venues, hence the disclaimer of being a limited research project.
On a heavier note:
There was however, a kid who killed himself in 2005 less than a year after graduating from that hellhole.  :cry:  :flame:

Okay, third attempt to underscore that point -- repercussions post-program.  Who, you keep ignoring this...  And no, it is not despite the program, but because of the program.

Tell me, what LGAT did you participate in?

[Anne Bonney]

You are wrong as usual, you just think you are more important than you really are.

Naw, I'm well aware of how insignificant I am and what I went through was to people like you, believe me.  


 

If it was just a survivors forum then it would be made clear to the rest of us who enter.

I didn't say it was solely a survivors forum, but it absolutely is first and foremost.  That's not ALL it is, but facts are...that's how it began, that's what its mainly populated by still.  The fact that we tolerate you doesn't diminish that fact.

You come on here and try to sell parents a rash of crap that isn’t true.. it is crap that is 30 years old, you and I both know that.

AGAIN you put words in my mouth.  I know no such thing.  YOU think that.

You wouldn’t recognize an improvement if it benefitted your own family.

And you know this because..........?

When I say “usâ€

[Anne Bonney]

Are you saying that suicide attempts are not worthy of any kind of consideration or monitoring?  Seems to me they are certainly some kind of barometer on the deal that goes down there.

And I'd also like to hear just what your take is on "progress" down the road, so to speak.  Given that most of these places claim to make a positive difference in your LIFE, isn't it a bit odd that once the gravy train is no longer functioning at peak capacity, gone also is the CONCERN.

Guess what?  When kids try to function in the "real" world post-program, that's when a lot of the problems and coping deficiencies --  in many cases, brought on by the program in question -- begin to really show up.  Is anybody bothering with monitoring this demographic?  What about suicides and suicide attempt post-program, because of program?

Hyde School does zero "follow-up" beyond the incessant fund-raising spam that follows you from address to address.  In fact, the spam never stops.  Even in cases where Hyde faculty have assaulted and/or raped the kids in question, and the kids have left under the most acrimonious circumstances, the parents never stop receiving the infernal requests for monies.  In one case I know of, even after the kid tried killing themselves post-program.  Because of what happened to them in program.  Hyde's response, concern?  More fund-raising attempts.

Yes, Ursus......absolutely yes!  That's one of the more insidious aspects of the places.  Hell, I was in one of the more notorious hellholes...one that damn near everyone can agree was abusive, even IdiotBoy ...but....I would have sworn it saved my life for a while after getting out.  My father sung STraight's praises for years and years after all the shit came out in the papers and even after Newton was run out of town on a rail.   People just cannot fathom what fucking around with someone's psyche while its still developing does to a person.  PTSD...shit, that sometimes takes years to manifest.  I had no idea how badly I was damaged until I started questioning what happened and even then it wasn't until years after that that I was capable of understanding the depth and depravity of what they did and the sheer joy with which they did it....allthewhile patting themselves on the back for what a wonderful job they were doing in saving our youth.

Puleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeze.

 :roll:  :roll:  :roll:  :roll:  :roll:  :roll:  :roll:  :roll:  :roll:  :roll:  :roll:



Thank you Ursus.  Excellent point.

[Anne Bonney]

...however, anybody who has been in one of these little cults knows full well that the damage done by these places does not lie in bullshit numbers, but in very real long term damage caused by the types of thought reform used.

I've said it before:  I don't think you can quantify or even approximate the damage done by these places by any means practiced at the moment.  No one bothers to do any long-term studies, but long-term studies are precisely what are needed given the kind of damage that takes place.

Do you really think industry insiders and apologists are going to do these kinds of studies?  It is not in their financial best interests to touch this with a ten-foot pole.  They might do an assessment whilst the kid is in program and maybe 1 year out.  No further removed from exposure than that.

But much of the damage does not begin to percolate to the surface and become overtly evident 'till much later.  It's like psychological asbestos.  It takes time for some of the effects from exposure to show up, and by the time they do, you're pretty much fucked.

'Nother good'un.

 

[Anonymous]

Mr. Who, why do you insist on personally attacking Anne Bonney and attributes as a mother?  You accept the misdeeds of Psy and TSW; even  offering up excuses for their behaviors when you have been reportedly wrongfully outed and when your private Fornits account has been manipulated by these guys.  Do you simply have a problem with women?  It seems you only personally attack women; like Anne and Deborah.  It does wear a bit thin and is highly annoying.

[Che Gookin]

Mr. Who, why do you insist on personally attacking Anne Bonney and attributes as a mother?  You accept the misdeeds of Psy and TSW; even  offering up excuses for their behaviors when you have been reportedly wrongfully outed and when your private Fornits account has been manipulated by these guys.  Do you simply have a problem with women?  It seems you only personally attack women; like Anne and Deborah.  It does wear a bit thin and is highly annoying.

That NAMBLA user title was most excellent.