Author Topic: SCIENTOLOGY (TM)  (Read 18456 times)

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Offline Paul

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« Reply #60 on: June 25, 2005, 10:45:00 PM »
Quote


However, he's not posting links, excerpts or discussion about them. He's reposting pages and pages long whole copies of material that's been in the same place for over a decade. Nobody's reading it. Nobody's talking about it. It's only tangentally to the topic we were discussing. I've asked him a few times now to quit doing that and he insists on continuing.


Ginger, I am so surprised that your character seems to have fell apart over this simple thread. Telling
people that the information in this article is out of date? Wow, is that your role?

Are the articles out of date? Since when does history become out of date. This is how Scientology started and what they have done up to 1990. Let the readers decide on their own if the information if relevant to their quest for knowledge.

I really am stunned at the overbearing role you have taken here.

Paul
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
or those who don\'t understand my position, on all subjects:

* Understand the law and your rights.

* Make sure you have the freedom of choice.

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Offline Antigen

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SCIENTOLOGY (TM)
« Reply #61 on: June 25, 2005, 11:00:00 PM »
Like it or not, I don't allow flooding. Read the terms of use. I've asked you to quit using my server. I banned one IP, you switched up and continued to ignore my request. At this point, you're stealing service. Go the fuck away and flood somebody else's forum. Or, better yet, set up your own.

What a distressing contrast there is between the radiant intelligence of the child and the feeble mentality of the average adult.
-- Sigmund Freud

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
~ Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Sweet Judy Blue Eyes

Offline Paul

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« Reply #62 on: June 25, 2005, 11:46:00 PM »
Quote

On 2005-06-25 20:00:00, Antigen wrote:

"Like it or not, I don't allow flooding. Read the terms of use.
Quote

I've asked you to quit using my server. I banned one IP, you switched up and continued to ignore my request.
Quote


I am still on the same computer, same desk, same keyboard ... what are you talking about?

You didn't notify me that I was banned, frankly,
at this point you have shown your hypocricy to the point that I don't really much care what you think. You have discredited yourself!

Quote

At this point, you're stealing service. Go the fuck away and flood somebody else's forum. Or, better yet, set up your own.
Quote


I think what you are trying to say is please go away so there is no one questioning my dogma.

You really want to say, I can't stand it when you ask me questions, or reply to my bullcrap, and I when I try to ignore you I have to bluff my way into making stuff up and reference you as a volume poster, when it is me, the Antigen, who gets in the most posts. I am never challenged, and I don't like to be challenge. All the other Fornit's folks
have learned to obey me, and you didn't so please dissapear so my world has no waves!

Hey, Ginger, before you hit the ban button again why don't you just sit back, relax and aswer each question that I asked. It is easy, they are in seperate posts so as not to get lost in a long post.

Go ahead, answer them ...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
or those who don\'t understand my position, on all subjects:

* Understand the law and your rights.

* Make sure you have the freedom of choice.

* Seek and receive unbiased information and
know the source of information.

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #63 on: June 25, 2005, 11:47:00 PM »
FFS, learn to use the quote thing. I ain't reading that shit.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Paul

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« Reply #64 on: June 25, 2005, 11:47:00 PM »
Ginger,

Are you sure you want to kick me off Fornit's?

This apparently is a topic your community wants
to view!

Paul
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
or those who don\'t understand my position, on all subjects:

* Understand the law and your rights.

* Make sure you have the freedom of choice.

* Seek and receive unbiased information and
know the source of information.

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #65 on: June 25, 2005, 11:49:00 PM »
No cheesedick. It's just that YOU keep bumping the fucking thread! What an ASSWIPE. :lol:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Paul

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« Reply #66 on: June 25, 2005, 11:50:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-06-25 20:47:00, Anonymous wrote:

"FFS, learn to use the quote thing. I ain't reading that shit. "


I agree, I wish I could figure it out!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
or those who don\'t understand my position, on all subjects:

* Understand the law and your rights.

* Make sure you have the freedom of choice.

* Seek and receive unbiased information and
know the source of information.

Offline Paul

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« Reply #67 on: June 25, 2005, 11:52:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-06-25 20:49:00, Anonymous wrote:

"No cheesedick. It's just that YOU keep bumping the fucking thread! What an ASSWIPE. :lol:"


Oh man, thank you so much for letting me know that
it is only me visiting this thread. Damn, I could
not have figured out that all those views where me.

Obviously you are brilliant and an asset to Fornit's.  If I had a vote, I would say, lets keep Anonymous on Fornits!!!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
or those who don\'t understand my position, on all subjects:

* Understand the law and your rights.

* Make sure you have the freedom of choice.

* Seek and receive unbiased information and
know the source of information.

Offline Paul

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« Reply #68 on: June 25, 2005, 11:54:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-06-25 20:52:00, Paul wrote:



On 2005-06-25 20:49:00, Anonymous wrote:


"No cheesedick. It's just that YOU keep bumping the fucking thread! What an ASSWIPE. :lol:"



Holy crap, I must be checking this thread like
an animal, what do you think Anonymous?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
or those who don\'t understand my position, on all subjects:

* Understand the law and your rights.

* Make sure you have the freedom of choice.

* Seek and receive unbiased information and
know the source of information.

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #69 on: June 25, 2005, 11:59:00 PM »
It's good to know that you've found your purpose in life. Carry on.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Paul

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« Reply #70 on: June 26, 2005, 12:03:00 AM »
Quote
On 2005-06-25 20:59:00, Anonymous wrote:

"It's good to know that you've found your purpose in life. Carry on."


It appears that elusive "purpose" has been solved for you here, eh!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
or those who don\'t understand my position, on all subjects:

* Understand the law and your rights.

* Make sure you have the freedom of choice.

* Seek and receive unbiased information and
know the source of information.

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #71 on: June 26, 2005, 12:04:00 AM »
Like ships that pass in the night.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Paul

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« Reply #72 on: June 26, 2005, 04:32:00 AM »
To those who may have voluntarily clicked to this thread, here are some reasons why this full cut
and paste of one day's article of a 1990 LA Times
story is being posted.

This COS LA Times article is historically relevant, it is not outdated information.

The reason the LA Times article was posted originally was as a result of email dialog from
a couple of different threads. The posting of the LA Times article is in response to that dialog, not as a response to a post made today, or yesterday. I am posting no comments at the end of the article because this is a historical, education based post.

The articles are numerous, thus the one article per day decision to avoid flooding this thread with lots of articles in one day.

It was put here on the "Scientology tm" thread because it would be easy to find in the future and it made sense because it was a series of articles
specifically on the Church of Scientology.

These posts seem to have generated some interest
by the number of views to the thread, now over 700 views. Not all attributed to these articles, of course, but nevertheless increasing daily.

Scientology is in the news today, regardless of Fornits either posting or not posting information of the COS. Thus making educational information timely and appropriate.

If the posting of the LA Times series of articles does bother you, the individual reader, it should have been voluntary for you to have clicked here and please to avoid furthur upset, please refrain from clicking onto this thread in the future.

Furthermore, please don't criticize people for having an interest in the COS either favorably or unfavorably. It is each individual's own reality that is enabling them to either take an interest or not. Please don't invalidate their experiences that lead them to make their volutary decisions.

Finally, the reason to post the whole article instead of just the link is for people who are busy and would prefer just to scan down the thread and read what they would like.

Now for the article ...

---

The Los Angeles Times

Part 1: The Making of L. Ron Hubbard

Burglaries and Lies Paved a Path to Prison

A web of criminal conspiracy to discredit the church's foes resulted in 5-year sentences for 11 defendants.

(Sunday, 24 June 1990, page A39:2)

It began with the title of a fairy tale -- Snow White.

That was the benign code name Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard gave to an ominous plan that would envelop his church in scandal and send its upper echelon to prison, a plan rooted in his ever-deepening fears and suspicions.

Snow White began in 1973 as an effort by Scientology through Freedom of Information proceedings to purge government files of what Hubbard thought was false information being circulated worldwide to discredit him and the church. But the operation soon mushroomed into a massive criminal conspiracy, executed by the church's legal and investigative arm, the Guardian Office.

Under the direction of Hubbard's wife, Mary Sue, the Guardian Office hatched one scheme after another to discredit and unnerve Scientology's foes across the country. Guardian Office members were trained to lie, or in their words, "to outflow false data effectively."

They compiled enemy lists and subjected those on the lists to smear campaigns and dirty tricks.

Their targets were in the government, the press, the medical profession, wherever a potential threat surfaced.

The Guardian Office saved the worst for author Paulette Cooper of New York City, whose scathing 1972 book, "The Scandal of Scientology," pushed her to the top of the church's roster of enemies.

Among other things, Cooper was framed on criminal charges by Guardian Office members, who obtained stationery she had touched and then used it to forge bomb threats to the church in her name.

"You're like the Nazis or the Arabs -- I'll bomb you, I'll kill you!" warned one of the rambling letters.

The church reported the threat to the FBI and directed its agents to Cooper, whose fingerprints matched those on the letter. Cooper was indicted by a grand jury not only for the bomb threats, but for lying under oath about her innocence.

Two years later, the author's reputation and psyche in tatters, prosecutors dismissed the charges after she had spent nearly $20,000 in legal fees to defend herself and $6,000 on psychiatric treatment.

It seemed that no plan against perceived enemies was too ambitious or daring.

In Washington, Scientology spies penetrated such high-security agencies as the Department of Justice and the Internal Revenue Service to find what they had on Hubbard and the church.

In nighttime raids, they rifled files and photocopied mountains of documents, many of which the church had unsuccessfully sought under the federal Freedom of Information Act.

The thefts were inside jobs; the Guardian Office had planted one agent in the IRS as a clerk typist and another in the Justice Department as the personal secretary of an assistant U.S. attorney who was handling Freedom of Information lawsuits filed by Scientology.

So bold had they become that one Guardian Office operative slipped into an IRS conference room and wired a bugging device into a wall socket before a crucial meeting on Scientology was to be convened. The operative rigged the device so he could eavesdrop over his car's FM radio.

The U.S. was losing a war it did not even know it was fighting. But that was about to change.

Two Scientologists used fake IRS credentials to gain access to government agencies and then photocopied documents related to the church.

Their conspiracy was exposed when one of the suspects, after 11 months on the lam, became worried about his plight and confessed to authorities, prompting the FBI to launch one of the biggest raids in its history.

Armed with power saws, crowbars and bolt cutters, 134 agents burst into three Scientology locations in Los Angeles and Washington.

They carted off eavesdropping equipment, burglar tools and 48,000 documents detailing countless operations against "enemies" in public and private life.

In the end, Hubbard's wife and the others were found guilty of charges of conspiracy and burglary. The grand jury named Hubbard as an unindicted co-conspirator; the seized Guardian Office files did not directly link him to the crimes and he professed ignorance of them.

In a memorandum urging stiff sentences for the Scientologists, federal prosecutors wrote:

"The crime committed by these defendants is of a breadth and scope previously unheard of. No building, office, desk, or file was safe from their snooping and prying. No individual or organization was free from their despicable conspiratorial minds. The tools of their trade were miniature transmitters, lock picks, secret codes, forged credentials and any other device they found necessary to carry out their conspiratorial schemes."

The 11 defendants were ordered to serve five years in federal prison. All are now free.

Church leaders today maintain that this dark chapter in their religion's history was the work of renegade members who, yes, broke the law but believed they were justified because the government for two decades had harassed and persecuted Scientology.

Boston attorney Earle C. Cooley, Scientology's national trial counsel, said the present church management does not condone the criminal activities of the old Guardian Office. He said that one of Hubbard's most important dictums was to "maintain friendly relations with the environment and the public."

"The question that I always have in my mind," Cooley said, "is for how long a time is the church going to have to continue to pay the price for what the (Guardian Office) did.... Unfortunately, the church continues to be confronted with it.

"And the ironic thing is that the people being confronted with it are the people who wiped it out. And to the church, that's a very frustrating thing."
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
or those who don\'t understand my position, on all subjects:

* Understand the law and your rights.

* Make sure you have the freedom of choice.

* Seek and receive unbiased information and
know the source of information.

Offline Paul

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« Reply #73 on: June 26, 2005, 04:50:00 AM »
Quote
On 2005-06-25 20:00:00, Antigen wrote:

"Read the terms of use"


Cut and pasted from the Terms of Use:

Bearing in mind that one man's poetry is another man's obscenity, and that censorship is probably the worst form of obscenity, I leave this to your best judgment. There is really no one 'in charge' of this discussion, and I will not intervene on anyone's behalf nor take responsibility for any reprecussions, legal or otherwise, that arise from anyone's words but my own.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
or those who don\'t understand my position, on all subjects:

* Understand the law and your rights.

* Make sure you have the freedom of choice.

* Seek and receive unbiased information and
know the source of information.

Offline Paul

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« Reply #74 on: June 26, 2005, 01:02:00 PM »
744 and rising ...

Ginger, I think this should meet your litmus
test of viability to keep your fingers off
of the Fornits censorship protocol and let
this thread naturally process ... just like
the rest of Fornits.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
or those who don\'t understand my position, on all subjects:

* Understand the law and your rights.

* Make sure you have the freedom of choice.

* Seek and receive unbiased information and
know the source of information.