Keith C. Russell

[Anonymous]

You are without a doubt one of the biggest assholes I have ever come across.

[TheWho]

Okay, I think we flamed enough here.  Sorry, Zen (everyone) if it was me that got us off course.  I think where we left off was a discussion on NATSAP and why the board consists of program people.
 
I compared this to any other industry where the industry leaders may form a committee to start regulation (of some type).  Health care did this, boy scouts, auto unions etc.  Because it makes sense and it follows that Fornits works better for the majority if the admins and mods are survivors or non- program people.  

I realize some people take exception to this comparison, but it’s the way it works in all areas not just NATSAP.  I think they are being unfairly judged.

[lorrispickelmire]

Doesn't matter what initials you use to name it, it is a joke to have people overseeing the facilities they work in.  NATSAP, TACCCA, FACCCA to name a few of these governing bodies that don't govern anything.

[Deborah]

In Montana a group of program owners regulate the industry.
NATSAP was very much involved in that coming to fruition, and I predict they will assist or encourage programs in other states to advocate for the same.
NATSAP also influenced the regulations in Utah.

Apparently a few Montana programs, who weren't in the inner circle, aren't too happy about this. As is obvious, they could be put out of business by their competitors, as their competitiors are their regulators.

[ZenAgent]

Okay, I think we flamed enough here.  Sorry, Zen (everyone) if it was me that got us off course.  I think where we left off was a discussion on NATSAP and why the board consists of program people.
 
I compared this to any other industry where the industry leaders may form a committee to start regulation (of some type).  Health care did this, boy scouts, auto unions etc.  Because it makes sense and it follows that Fornits works better for the majority if the admins and mods are survivors or non- program people.  

I realize some people take exception to this comparison, but it’s the way it works in all areas not just NATSAP.  I think they are being unfairly judged.

My view isn't narrow, and I'm not trying to change minds, just draw attention to the issue - attention is the one thing abusive programs don't want.  Why would my knowledge of the industry be less than yours?  Rather smug "assumption", dude.  

Your "My way is right, you're all close-minded" approach is what alienates you here, and the pissy rejoinders when you get yer nose out of joint.

How many RTC's do you have experience with, who?  How many times do you think someone should keep throwing a kid back into RTC's when there's a bad experience.  Tell me, E, with your vast knowledge of good and evil, wrong and right, what programs are you aware of that are completely safe?  Name those, and give me the dark side next:  which ones are the black holes of the industry.

Surely you know, otherwise you really can't back your defense of the industry as good with bad spots.  You need to clearly identify the programs you'll back as safe and therapeutic.

As for me, first-hand knowledge of one RTC is enough.  I can't imagine the trauma of pulling a child out of PV and putting them in another pit.  

If all you want is a platform where people will praise your views, try ST, those sycophants will proclaim you the Chosen One.  If you want to discuss the industry with both sides, try StrugglingPeople - http://www.freepowerboards.com/strugglingppl/index.php.  The admins are a mixed group, which you want.  No flaming is allowed.  You have my personal promise that I'll vote to ban anyone who flames you, even if it's me.

[CCM girl 1989]

Who, I think you're going to have to quit your day time job my friend! These guys are pretty demanding, always wanting your time, and attention! Prove this, prove that! Then when you do take the time to do it, they ask you the same damn question again, and again, and again. We want proof they say! You give it to them, and they do not accept it!

What's up with them? Are they nuts or what?!! I just pray that when the 2008 elections come around they'll have something else to eat up their time.

[TheWho]

In Montana a group of program owners regulate the industry.
NATSAP was very much involved in that coming to fruition, and I predict they will assist or encourage programs in other states to advocate for the same.
NATSAP also influenced the regulations in Utah.

Apparently a few Montana programs, who weren't in the inner circle, aren't too happy about this. As is obvious, they could be put out of business by their competitors, as their competitiors are their regulators.

Sure, get these committees going!!  form large committees to oversee the smaller ones and then eventually form a joint commission to tie it in with government regulation.  This commission can eventually be boarded by non- program owners.  Some will be voted off in favor of more therapeutic types, child advocates, child psychologists, .... the commission can grow some teeth (close the bad schools down) and start advocating for the kids and standardizing care and admission requirements, "family first" policies etc.

But right now an advocacy group cant even get in the door or have a voice.....  NATSAP is doing the right thing, they are building a platform which will be handed over someday to people who dont have a conflict of interest.  They are heading in the same direction as fornits, (except for those individuals who want to shut down every school) just on a different path and a much slower one unfortunately.

[ZenAgent]

Who, I think you're going to have to quit your day time job my friend! These guys are pretty demanding, always wanting your time, and attention! Prove this, prove that! Then when you do take the time to do it, they ask you the same damn question again, and again, and again. We want proof they say! You give it to them, and they do not accept it!

What's up with them? Are they nuts or what?!! I just pray that when the 2008 elections come around they'll have something else to eat up their time.

Just want to know the good programs and the bad.  E. obviously considers us too narrow minded to have a clue about the safe programs, and since he wants to clean up the bias and BS around here, that would be a good start.  This is what he says he CAME to Fornits to do, so drop science on us, E-spot.

I sit at your feet in rapt attention, waiting for enlightenment.  Share the wisdom, so that we might go out and be thy disciples.  

CCM girl?  Who are you?  Unfamiliar with you.  Referring to people with mental health issues and addictions who were abused in RTC's as possible "nuts" kinda shows where you're coming from, though.[/i]

[TheWho]

Who, I think you're going to have to quit your day time job my friend! These guys are pretty demanding, always wanting your time, and attention! Prove this, prove that! Then when you do take the time to do it, they ask you the same damn question again, and again, and again. We want proof they say! You give it to them, and they do not accept it!

What's up with them? Are they nuts or what?!! I just pray that when the 2008 elections come around they'll have something else to eat up their time.

Ha,Ha... yea, you have been reading!!!  I had to call in sick today so I could respond to everyone, whats up with everyone today?

Oh, wait a minute, this is my job.

[ZenAgent]

Who, I think you're going to have to quit your day time job my friend! These guys are pretty demanding, always wanting your time, and attention! Prove this, prove that! Then when you do take the time to do it, they ask you the same damn question again, and again, and again. We want proof they say! You give it to them, and they do not accept it!

What's up with them? Are they nuts or what?!! I just pray that when the 2008 elections come around they'll have something else to eat up their time.

Ha,Ha... yea, you have been reading!!!  I had to call in sick today so I could respond to everyone, whats up with everyone today?

We love you, E., ya big chicken-brained, crotch-grabbing baboon.  The time we spend palavering is priceless to me.  

I thank the Lord and Jimmy Swaggart for people like you, Sullie.

[TheWho]

Any true believer in Zen who thanks the lord in a time of hardship can’t be trusted with their word.  I think that is a new low for you.

Hmmm.. Confucius says?  Ha,Ha,  I just went back and read a few of the past posts....... Seems we are trading insults, how professional.

[TheWho]

Okay lets get back on track, Deb brought up a good point:

In Montana a group of program owners regulate the industry.
NATSAP was very much involved in that coming to fruition, and I predict they will assist or encourage programs in other states to advocate for the same.
NATSAP also influenced the regulations in Utah.

Apparently a few Montana programs, who weren't in the inner circle, aren't too happy about this. As is obvious, they could be put out of business by their competitors, as their competitiors are their regulators.

Sure, get these committees going!!  form large committees to oversee the smaller ones and then eventually form a joint commission to tie it in with government regulation.  This commission can eventually be boarded by non- program owners.  Some will be voted off in favor of more therapeutic types, child advocates, child psychologists, .... the commission can grow some teeth (close the bad schools down) and start advocating for the kids and standardizing care and admission requirements, "family first" policies etc.

But right now an advocacy group cant even get in the door or have a voice.....  NATSAP is doing the right thing, they are building a platform which will be handed over someday to people who dont have a conflict of interest.  They are heading in the same direction as fornits, (except for those individuals who want to shut down every school) just on a different path and a much slower one unfortunately.

[CCM girl 1989]

Any true believer in Zen who thanks the lord in a time of hardship can’t be trusted with their word.  I think that is a new low for you.

Hmmm.. Confucius says?  Ha,Ha,  I just went back and read a few of the past posts....... Seems we are trading insults, how professional.

That was pretty funny! Thank you for giving me a laugh today.

[CCM girl 1989]

Zen,

I will be in your neck of the woods come Thursday! Should I come pay you a visit? You have to admit there are some of you who act totally nuts on here, and that's just stating the obvious. Sorry if you took it personally. When I come to visit you what should I look for on your forehead? What will Deb have you tattooed with?

CCM girl

[ZenAgent]

Zen,

I will be in your neck of the woods come Thursday! Should I come pay you a visit? You have to admit there are some of you who act totally nuts on here, and that's just stating the obvious. Sorry if you took it personally. When I come to visit you what should I look for on your forehead? What will Deb have you tattooed with?

CCM girl

ARE YOU THREATENING ME?

I hope you haven't a clue as to my "neck of the woods".   You come near the compound and I'll be forced to unleash the hounds.  Get past the dogs, and I'll use the Rumbler - this gadget emits an ultra-low frequency that causes everyone within the area of a city block to spontaneously evacuate their bowels.

Don't come near the compound.