Pathways

[Oz girl]

I posted this in the facility q&a section as well

Gookie once posted a thread asking if people knew anything About programs in other countries. I read an article about adolescent girls in the melbourne Age and this place was mentioned. Below is it's website and a couple of TV chat show fluff pieces largely for the purposes of promotion. it looks to be an interesting idea. Fathers and their early adolescent sons or mothers and daughters go camping in the bush for 5 days. The male one seems all about mountain men stuff but they mentioned the female one involved cabins and proper showers. The emphasis is apparently on the parent spending time with the kid and building them up. One slant i liked was that it talked a lot about busy parents having to leave behind their phones and work stuff as opposed to talking about how entitled the kid was and why this meant taking away things from them. It also mentioned that while it takes some families who are going through a rough patch it is primarily aimed at improving parent child communication before problems start.

It was oddly secretive about what the workshops and activities involved. I don't know if this was because of copy right issues, or because it was some kind of odd Lgat thing or because boys like all of that secret mens business crap. there was also much discussion of sharing in a safe environment which reminded me a little of programs.

 Could this be what American wilderness should aim for or is it a softer way to penetrate the Oz market to make way for tougher programs for troubled kids? For those who have seen marketing for programs on US breakfast type telly- in what way is it different or similar?


http://www.pathwaysfoundation.com.au/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSo3U3j6A0c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSlQSkxVEpQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WphwBFHqmTc

[Che Gookin]

Go pay em a visit and ask them for a tour for your struggling teen.

[Oz girl]

I have spoken to them today briefly. They don't have any one venue as such but conduct camps in various places. In the boys camp it varies form yr to yr. They are more likely to get a wider audience if they are easy to get to (remember Oz only has 21 million people).

They said that they don't offer counselling as such and were designed to teach communication before trouble started but that they also took parent ans kid duos who were having a difficult time with each other. Apparently too much detail would kinda spoil the magic. One thing that genuinely impressed me was the emphasis on getting busy parents to focus on the kid. They also appeared to be about problem solving negotiation particularly with regard to the boys.
 
But basically it was all about  "communication skills" This could either be odd lifesprings crap or teaching slightly uptight middle class mums how to talk to their daughters about sex and blokey dads to be more affectionate toward their sons. Much like the TV promo it looked to potentially be a little from both columns. I honestly dont know. But were there some similarities in the marketing of this and some of the "softer" wilderness programs? i wonder if places like Catherine Freer dont try and sell something similar

[Ursus]

Some things stood out for me on the FAQ page, which may or may not be significant (color emphasis added):


What is the Pathways Foundation?

Since 1995, Pathways to Manhood has been providing a community based, contemporary Rite of Passage for boys into manhood. The Pathways Foundation was incorporated in 2002 and now delivers the following programs nationally: Pathways to Manhood, Pathways into Womanhood, Leadership Development, Returning Young Man, and Raising Teenage Boys School talks. The Pathways Foundation is a registered

harm prevention charity with gift deductibility status.[/list]
Where & when are the camps held?

Pathways to Manhood camps are held in isolated bush locations all over Australia. See the 'Camps' section of this site for camp dates, or contact the office. We do not generally hold camps during school holidays, as this is often a time for the whole family to be together.

The schools we have partnerships with value the Pathways experience as a significant part of a boy's development.[/list]
What happens on a camp?

The program is a fun, safe, and always interesting bush camp that is designed to acknowledge and honour the change from boy to young man. The boys have the opportunity to hear the stories of older men and ask questions in a sharing environment. They are exposed to

a series of safe yet demanding ordeals to test and challenge them physically, mentally, emotionally and on a personal development level. Fun processes such as sharing of personal experiences, story telling, adventure and relationship building activities are also part of the program. It is a guided journey towards a deeper understanding of what it means to live a balanced adult male life in today's world.[/list]
Is this a religious program?

No. This program is not based on any religion, and does not promote any one belief over another. Our programs blend a number of experiences drawn from many cultures and practices, and we invite you to honor your own beliefs. At all times you have a choice to participate in an activity or not. The Pathways Foundation is

a values based organisation founded on a framework of respect, responsibility and awareness. [/list]
Why is the process so secretive?

The power of the Pathways program is in the unfolding of the processes. These are safe, responsible and professional methods designed to support your boy to become a healthy young man.

To gain the maximum benefit we ask you to "Trust the process." If you feel you need more specific information, call the office and ask for assistance.[/list]
What are some of the outcomes of attending a Pathways to Manhood camp?

The Pathways program has desired outcomes that include strong, long term relationships between father and son;

respectful relationships between mother and son; increased self esteem; improved communication and leadership skills; decreased harmful behaviour such as drug and alcohol abuse; better results at school; closer relationships between boys, their families and communities.[/list]

[Ursus]

I hate to say this, but this sounds like it borrows more than a little from that Samoan traditional values and becoming a man shit... This organization is primarily about boy-man issues; the girls were added as an afterthought, perhaps to stem some outcry re. unequal opportunity.

If you follow more of the links on the AboutUs page (left hand menu), personnel have backgrounds in psychology, psychotherapy, juvenile justice systems, life coaching, venture trading, investment banking, and marketing strategies.
 
Related groups are:

The Mankind Project of Australia
Men's Health & Well-Being Association Queensland (includes Common Ground)[/list]

Seems like lots of "skills training in the wilderness," 8 week sessions for the men in some cases, and support groups that meet afterwards on a weekly basis to keep each other being good bros, and to talk about relationships and self-improvement.

Their About Us page:

==============================

What is Pathways?

Since 1995, Pathways to Manhood has been providing a community based, contemporary Rite of Passage for boys into manhood.  The Pathways Foundation was incorporated in 2002 and now delivers the following programs nationally: Pathways to Manhood, Pathways into Womanhood, Leadership Development, Returning Young Man, and Raising Teenage Boys School talks. The Pathways Foundation is a registered harm prevention charity with gift deductibility status.

What is a Rite of Passage?

A Rite of Passage is an experience or event that marks the transformation from one life stage to another. Other contemporary examples of Rites of Passage include graduations and marriage. In traditional societies, Rites of Passage have played a critical role in the healthy transition from boy to young man for thousands of years.

 
Why do teens need help in growing up?

We all want our children to be safe, to do well and for us to stay friends. To achieve this it is vital that they grow up emotionally.  

Growing older is inevitable, but growing up is avoidable.

A teen's body changes dramatically as they go through adolescence. Whether they want it to or not, their body will become that of an adult. Unfortunately, the necessary mental shift from boy to man or girl to woman is not compulsory and sadly it is still possible to be a boy or girl at 35 or older.

Just as their bodies are being flooded with hormones, their brains are rewiring and their minds are inundated with advertising, computer games, cultural expectations and peer pressure. Teens need emotional support to navigate these turbulent years safely and to build their self esteem.  

It is considered that a great deal of the high risk behaviour, particularly in boys: dangerous driving, violent outbursts and drug and alcohol abuse, is the boys' way of saying "Look at me! I am somebody! I am a man!"

Quite simply, our adolescents need help making the emotional shift to adulthood. This is not a new phenomenon. Traditional societies recognized that the future health of their communities depended upon having healthy men and women as members instead of overgrown boys and girls.  More resources were devoted to assisting the transition from boy to man and girl to woman than any other aspect of community life.

We know we make a difference. Recently completed independent market research on our Pathways to Manhood program has confirmed the following significant benefits of participation for the young men: increased confidence, stronger more respectful and supportive father relationships, increased respect for women as well as motivation to set goals, finish school and to participate and give back to their community.

[Anonymous]

This smells like a program, even though the father is involved. As we all know, parents can and usually are brainwashed by programs too.

The secrecy aspect of it raises a huge red flag. And since some of the staff have backgrounds in psychology or criminal justice, there is most likely some behavior modification or so-called therapy being done out there in the Australian bush. A prospective customer has a right to know they are signing up for.

It would be interesting to learn more about the so-called "independent" research that claims to show the effectiveness of this program.

[Oz girl]

Yes i did read the faq's. The secrecy was a bit of a red flag for me too. The 2 organisations it is linked with have a fairly good reputation here although one is kind of flaky. When i asked about the schools they linked to they were all just normal schools (public and private) basically ones with good academic reputations and good kids. Most were day schools. One or 2 had boarders as well. This to me was code for kids whose parents are willing to spend 1800 k for a week away.

The values based thing did not concern me *too much*. if they had been christian based most oz parents, even the regular church goers would run for the hills. Nothing is a bigger turn off for mainstream Australia than overt mention of god by an unknown organsation. But most ppl like the sound of values. it is a way of sounding wholesome but getting as many ppl in as poss

I asked about the physical challenges and most of them sounded fairly harmless or fun. the girls side does not really have them at all. In the event they are telling the whole truth the physical challenges sounded like something a certain type of boy would enjoy. Things like fishing for the main meat portion of one of the dinners and building a teepee with the dad. They sounded puzzled when I asked if those who dont cathc anything still get to eat. They do. it is done as a sort of team thing. Most of the things the boys did the dad did as well. They also said that the aim for both genders was to encourage a give and take approach to parenting where the parent is more the mentor than the boss as this is according to them what often causes tension. This did impress me i have to admit.

The big red flag for me was the "we can't really describe the group process you have to experience it" mentality of the non physical activities. particularly for the girls as theirs is less about physical challenges and more about being this sort of hippy love in. i wonder if it is like lifesprings.

I think the girls program was tacked on to widen the audience and make more money. I also agree that the stats are largely bogus. i asked about the stats. They said pathways boys compared to the wider community and looked mainly at crime. What they did not allow for was that
a) The kids at pathways have not really gotten into trouble
b) The kids are predominantly middle class. It is actually relatively difficult here for a middle class kid to become a crime stat even if they are quite the lawbreaker.

They gave me the # of one parent as a testimonial have not called them yet.

My *so far* conclusion is that this org does not have the punitive mentality of a program. But there are a few things that got me wondering. I also wonder if this takes off whether they will venture into placing the emphasis more on troubled teens and thus go down a more brat camp sort of road. Particularly if they see it as a money spinner. Afterall many wilderness places sound great on paper and Hyde does not really market itself as being for troubled kids but there are a lot of unhappy customers

[Ursus]

This sentence REALLY got me, because it is identical to program lingo found here:

To gain the maximum benefit we ask you to "Trust the process."[/list]

There are programs here as well for men, where men learn about really being men, and getting along with other men, and connecting to their inner emotional men selves, etc. etc. ad nauseum. I remember reading about one of them on the Rick Ross site; basically it was just another psychologically destructive Lifespring offshoot that made a lot of money for its originator.

Which is not to say that this is what you have in Australia. Just makes me super cautious...

Didn't really like the backgrounds of the teachers and directors either. Too much emphasis on marketing and financial wizardry.

[Che Gookin]

programme.. no doubting it.. programme..

[try another castle]

Anything that calls itself "Pathways to Manhood" and is NOT a bar in Folsom Gulch in San Francisco has GOT to be a program. Because seriously, that is just one creepy name.

[Oz girl]

programme.. no doubting it.. programme..

Where I would *so far* disagree with this statement. There is not yet evidence that it's mentality or activities are abusive in any way. The kids are also not separated from their parents so any abuse would be tricky to cover up. Afterall if you have not taken your kid to punish or "heal" them i would assume you would be alarmed by staff mistreating them. The guy from pathways mentioned that most of the dads on the boys program felt guilty about spending too much time at the office and not enough with their growing son. i would like to find out more about the girls program.

As to the creepy name. i am in agreeance. This sort of thing has been trendy with a certain crowd here ever since the mens movement took off. Hippies going into the bush to beat drums and that sort of shit. Do these guys exist in the US?

To be honest my concern is not what it appears to be now, which is a benign and faddish money spinner but what it could very easily become. i could see them potentially keeping this idea of things but also branching out into seperate "experiences" for just troubled kids without the parent. Then realising that if they can charge 1800 for 1 week..........

[Antigen]

I wonder if this is an adjunct to RTC/TBS, etc. Can you find out the names of the schools with which they cooperate?

[Oz girl]

sure. They mentioned a few but i did not write them down because they were just normal public schools or very well known private schools here. Will double check though. One was Melbourne Grammar. This school is uber expensive. I dont think the trouble is the schools they currently co operate with but i will double check. I think it is what they may do in future. Eg Aspen opens here,  Jr gets expelled from Mebourne Grammar, goes to path ways and they "recommend" aspen

http://www.mgs.vic.edu.au

If you saw the TV interviews were they in any way similar to the ones that advertised straight ginger? Accents aside, did the parents appear similar to the audience that Tbs markets to in the US?

[Ursus]

programme.. no doubting it.. programme..

Where I would *so far* disagree with this statement. There is not yet evidence that it's mentality or activities are abusive in any way. The kids are also not separated from their parents so any abuse would be tricky to cover up. Afterall if you have not taken your kid to punish or "heal" them i would assume you would be alarmed by staff mistreating them. The guy from pathways mentioned that most of the dads on the boys program felt guilty about spending too much time at the office and not enough with their growing son.

The inclusion of family in no way precludes culty culty culty. You should visit Hyde School on one of those 3 or so mandatory Family Weekend sessions per year. Parent and son/daughter are doing the ropes course thing, the mountain climbing thing, the scaling the fence thing, etc. etc. etc.... they have this hokey set of "trust building," "sharing," "risk-taking," and "challenge-accepting" exercises that families have to complete, or at least attempt (if you don't complete it, you can expect having to later discuss the reasons why, in Group). This is, of course, above and beyond all the confrontational seminars that they are also required to participate in. There is a picture in the Forward of the first edition of Joe Gauld's Character First of Cher suspended in mid-air, presumably dependent on Elijah's holding fast to the other end of the rope.

Hyde School's program relies heavily on the indoctrination of parents. In addition to the Family Weekends, there are fund raising and recruiting activities and at least monthly local "Discovery Groups" (confrontational seminars) that are run by Hyde ideologues that parents are more or less required to participate in while their kid is stuck at the boarding school. In fact, if your parents do not get with the program sufficiently, you as a student are held to task for this, you'll have to answer to this in Group, and it may even end up being factored into your academic grades.

As to the creepy name. i am in agreeance. This sort of thing has been trendy with a certain crowd here ever since the mens movement took off. Hippies going into the bush to beat drums and that sort of shit. Do these guys exist in the US?

Oh yeah, do check out the Rick Ross site...

[Oz girl]

to ginger- One of their fliers they sent me mentions that do school talks about raising boys.
The schools mentioned who have commissioned them are
http://www.riverview.nsw.edu.au/
http://www.bbc.qld.edu.au/home.asp
http://www.wesley.wa.edu.au/
http://www.stpats.vic.edu.au/
http://www.stpeters.sa.edu.au/
none of the schools they have mentioned are new or "program like". (bear in mind that all Australian private schools have those pompous looking uniforms) They are very old money. This speaks volumes about the audience they are targeting though. Did straight do any recruiting at private schools by offering talks or seminars on "parenting"? What about other programs or schools like hyde?