Changes at Pathway?

[METALGOD8]

Jeez, now you call me a liar. That is not nice. I only asked you if you had a license to run a foster home in your state. How is asking a question lying?  :smokin:

[Anonymous]

"Why are the windows and doors alarmed? Surely you never thought of doing that prior to your agreement with Pathway to treat your and fellow clients children. With willing participants, why is that necessary? Now, I suppose you could tell me I am assuming too much now, but, be honest. Are you a psychologist? Do you have any degrees in drug treatment, you know, like from a university somewhere? The list of questions almost never ends, as long as Pathway is open and for a long time after it's gone. STRAIGHT, INC. was closed a decade ago and I still ask questions about them. Please stick to answers and not so much cynicism. Did you ever discuss current news events with any first phasers? Were they allowed to watch games and shows on TV while eating popcorn there at your host home? Could you listen to the radio on the way to and from the building while first phasers were riding in your vehicle? "

Prior to Pathway did I alarm doors? No! I was not housing drug addicted children who I could not trust to follow simple rules of my home. What was the point of alarming the doors? Was I going stop them or to run after them? Hell no, let them go if they want to go. Alarming the doors meant that I could let the program know  in a timely manner and also the police. Why the police? To make law enforcement aware that you were out there.It is their job TO FOLLOW THE LAW and make sure you are returned or not. If you were court ordered to be in treatment, then after your apprehension, your parole officer could decide if you were going back or serve time. That was not my concern. My concern was that I PROMPTLY notify the proper people of your departure just as I would expect it if my child ran from a host home.

As far as current events, no matter what level the client was on we were able to do that and frequently did. I did not dwell on a subject but it was open for discussion in my home.

First phasers were not allowed to watch television. I understand that they wanted them to focus on themselves, but I believe that  a couple of hours a week of television would not be detremental to treatment. If it were up to me, I would have allowed it.

We do play board games on all levels of Pathway. The lowest level kids are allowed outside for 3 to 4 hours on weekends if there is parental supervision available to do that.Higher levels only need to ask to go outside. They are not locked up in the home. We eat outside on the patio many evenings. I listen to radio traffic reports on the way into the building. I hope that that is expanded further to public radio broadcasts on current events. It may happen shortly. I hate to not hear the radio in the morning or evening as well.

Do I have a degree in drug dependency? (I have  degrees, but not in drug dependency.)  No silly, that's why I went to people who did. Should I listen to them or you? Their training is in helping kids with problems avoid drugs and handle problems in a healthy way. The kids I see in the program have training is how to try to successfully use drugs... most of them got an "F" in that subject. Your degree is in what by the way? I am a parent so my rights take precedent over my children's. ( that's the law  too )I make decisions on the behalf of my children untill they can do it for themselves or, untill I AM LEGALLY NOT HELD LIABLE FOR THEIR POOR JUDGEMENT.

I read a interesting article in the paper last night. A Michigan 16 yr old boy (drug dependent) caused vandalism to the local high school. Over three quarters of a million dollars damage was done to the school. Guess who is being sued for the  damage? The parents!!! Why? They are responsible for the actions of minors under state law. The judgement takes their home, and garnish wages untill paid in full. How the actions of one child affects the lives of the whole family. It probably isn't completely the child's problem, but it points out what happens when parents just bury their heads and PRETEND everything is fine and they will just grow out of it. I am not willing to do that.

[Carmel]

I like how you use that term "drug dependent" in reference to a someone you read about in the paper.  As if you are fully informed as to anything about the kid or what he is other than the newspaper saying he was high.  I recall being high several times, and I was never dependent.

Look, I hope that changes are being made, I hope your family is getting better, I hope that more avenues for kids to get help who are TRULY drug dependent, open up.  I am just saying watch out.  The genetic makeup of the program your child is in came from a dark, abusive, horrific background....just as its intended purpose was based on a helpful and noble idea to help people get past their addictions. That is real, that is the truth, and you should take into consideration the fact that a program with a history such as these have are going to have to come a long way to eliminate the legacy they have made.  Your child is allowed to do things in Pathway that I never was, I admit this, and its good.  However, I was never one for being up in arms about whether or not someone wacthed me urinate or take a shower....girls do that sort of thing normally anyway.  I DO however, take greater offense to the mental abuse, the verbal degredation during "therapy", the attempts to force my mind into a mode of thinking that was unnatural and not useful in the outside world.  See, I was being "treated" by other kids...kids who were just like me.  Kids with resentment and hate and fear and jealousy.  The only staff member above a Straight Graduate staffer that I ever held a conversation with ws the Executive who did my intake.  How can children truly get the right kind of care in these circumstances?  You know why Pathway is so cheap? Because they dont have to pay therapists, they recruit the graduates.  Not one single solitary staff memember who led the raps we were in even had a degree.  What makes them qualified to treat me?  The fact that they were forced into Straight and learned how to survive it?  Thats just not a situation I would put my kid in.  If their life is on the line, I am gonna hock the house and get food stamps.  Not shop for the cheapest way out.  My kid is worth it.

On the subject of drug addiction, I was thinking about this thread the other night and I posed a serious question to myself.  What are the possibilities of a child going through a very heavy period of drug use and bad behaviour, and then coming out just fine as adults?  Adults that drink occasionally, smoke, whatever, and are just fine?  That happened to me, why shouldnt it be a common occurence?  My period of drug use was AFTER the program by the way, in case you wonder.  When you grow up, your perspective changes, your knowledge grows and your vulnerability presents itself....you look at the world differently.  How can it be healthy to keep applying these harsh rules that govern your "sober" life if you are very simply grown up and not in need of such ideals?

I was sixteen years old and told if I ever drank again I was useless, going to ruin my life and myself, because I was an alcoholic.  To be perfectly honest, I dont think kids know how to be alcoholics and drug addicts.  Not the way adults do.  I think the emotional circumstances are a million miles apart.  Parents need to stop calling their kids harcore drug addicts becasue they smoke pot with their buddies or get drunk at a party.  WE ALL DID THIS WHEN WE WERE YOUNG....didnt you?  Are you a drug addict?  You rebelled against your family, lied, cheated, stole...to some degree I bet.  What makes you any different?  I have done things that are so bad my kids probably wont ever do them at their worst...and I STILL am not an addict.  You have to take control of your kids, even if it means giving up your liberties as a parent.  Sell your house, move away, and above all, be honest about what it is you are not giving your child emotionally.  Can you imagine what it might be like if you told your kid that smoking pot was bad, but if he was going to do it, he had best do it at home, or at least know that he could call you if he needed to if he was in trouble?  I know its radical, but what do we as human beings love more than anything....FORBIDDEN FRUIT.  I bet you he would get in half as much trouble if he knew it wouldnt piss you off.  

I want my son to be able to tell me what he has done, without shame, because he is gonna do it anyway...and the more I distance myself and make myself a friggin saint and refuse to acknowledge that he is doing this stuff...the more he is going to draw away, and within his own self.  If he gets in trouble, he needs to trust me that i can help him....and there is a solution.  TRUST is priceless and its what is missing so much form these situations.

[METALGOD8]

Well, lets see now. First phasers are not allowed to watch TV. Hmmm, seems like the national average of households that have TV's is pretty high. Did you have a TV to watch or was it turned off while hosting first phasers? The TV thing bothers me because as citizens of the USA, there is whats left of the First Amendment, enough to allow a minor, no matter what state, to watch it. Many of the brainwashing techniques used by cults like STRAIGHT, INC. included censorship of TV, Radio, etc etc... Maybe Pathway will change that rule, who knows. Certainly neither you nor I can predict that now. I appreciate the answers you give so far. Except for the name calling, I see that you are at least willing to talk about this. The only way Pathway works is the STRAIGHT, INC way. It is called a treatment modality. Facades can be erected there, but the modality still exists. When it is possible, I would suggest that you read about Synanon, talk to some of the survivors of that church. They are on the net, just search you'll find them. Learning about this modality may help you understand the FUNDAMENTAL FLAWS of Pathway and all the other programs spawned from STRAIGHT, INC, etc etc... This whole Pathway situation is not a bogus issue at all. In fact, you could ask Pathway why they are making several changes recently. They may tell you something you did not hear when your child was intaked. A few last questions... During your tenure as a program parent, how many clients were court ordered? How long was your program. (My parents were told, at STRAIGHT, INC., 6 months but it ended up being nearly 2 years) What about non-court ordered clients? Did you feel threatened or something? Was the alarm policy your idea or was that part of the program rules? Do you have any Pathway documents that you would like to share with me regarding this situation? I will respect your anonymity if you wish.  


MG8 :smokin:

[Anonymous]

"I want my son to be able to tell me what he has done, without shame, because he is gonna do it anyway...and the more I distance myself and make myself a friggin saint and refuse to acknowledge that he is doing this stuff...the more he is going to draw away, and within his own self. If he gets in trouble, he needs to trust me that i can help him....and there is a solution. TRUST is priceless and its what is missing so much form these situations."

We are not that far apart in our wishes. I just don't accept that "he will just do it anyway". (Yes, maybe when he is on his own) The difference is I will let my child know that I love him and that I disapprove of a behavior he exibits. I can do this by stating my feelings and not attacking him (making him feel worthless or belittle him). Believe it or not, both can be done at the same time with a healthy outcome.(This is the real meat of my education  at Pathway.) Remember, that he can only be a parent to his own children with as much skill as he learns from his mom and dad or hopefully someday his own wife. Maybe all my child needs is to hear that very fact to keep it from becoming worse. Some items we agree to disagree. Others, he at least has respect that in our home,certain behavior will not be tolerated and there are consequences for choosing them. But I still show love and affection. How sad would my life be if I did what I wanted to do and not had consideration for anyone else in my family? That was how it was with my child before therapy and how I feel the result would be now if I had continued to follow your methods.

 It is sad that I had to learn how to do this in a healthy way from outside sources but this is what Pathway, among other sources, has taught me to successfuly do. These were talents my parents never possesed to pass on to me. I now can at least do this for my children and hopefully they will be able to do so for their own. I don't want to be his buddy, I want to be his parent. He needs parents. He already has enough buddies. If that was enough, he wouldn't be looking for me to support him. That is a responsibility of mine, he has responsibilities too. Healthy parents can function well in these roles. Unhealthy ones invite the same dysfunction to be passed on to the next generation... if they survive this one.

[Anonymous]

On 2003-07-25 14:16:00, METALGOD8 wrote:

"Well, lets see now. First phasers are not allowed to watch TV. Hmmm, seems like the national average of households that have TV's is pretty high. Did you have a TV to watch or was it turned off while hosting first phasers? The TV thing bothers me because as citizens of the USA, there is whats left of the First Amendment, enough to allow a minor, no matter what state, to watch it. Many of the brainwashing techniques used by cults like STRAIGHT, INC. included censorship of TV, Radio, etc etc... Maybe Pathway will change that rule, who knows. Certainly neither you nor I can predict that now. I appreciate the answers you give so far. Except for the name calling, I see that you are at least willing to talk about this. The only way Pathway works is the STRAIGHT, INC way. It is called a treatment modality. Facades can be erected there, but the modality still exists. When it is possible, I would suggest that you read about Synanon, talk to some of the survivors of that church. They are on the net, just search you'll find them. Learning about this modality may help you understand the FUNDAMENTAL FLAWS of Pathway and all the other programs spawned from STRAIGHT, INC, etc etc... This whole Pathway situation is not a bogus issue at all. In fact, you could ask Pathway why they are making several changes recently. They may tell you something you did not hear when your child was intaked. A few last questions... During your tenure as a program parent, how many clients were court ordered? How long was your program. (My parents were told, at STRAIGHT, INC., 6 months but it ended up being nearly 2 years) What about non-court ordered clients? Did you feel threatened or something? Was the alarm policy your idea or was that part of the program rules? Do you have any Pathway documents that you would like to share with me regarding this situation? I will respect your anonymity if you wish.  





MG8 :nworthy:


Sorry, I will never give out details of people in treatment. It is against the law and not my style.

[METALGOD8]

OK, well, you are right, there was no TV back in 1700's, so I guess it's not an inherent right of a child to be able to watch TV. I figured since it has been the norm for over 50 years, that most kids watch at least one show or cartoon in their parents house. I know, as a 21 year old client way back in 1983 on first phase in STRAIGHT, INC., I was not allowed to watch TV, listen to the radio, read a newspaper, road signs, or a shampoo bottle for that matter. I was 21, not a minor.

What about the questions I asked concerning court ordered clients? If you don't know, that's fine.

 I do have one last question for you, or whoever knows. If you, as a parent of a client there at Pathway refer another family who actively participates in the program, do you get paid any money for that? Some call it a finders fee or bounty.


MG8 :smokin:

[Anonymous]

Yes they were talking about the possibility of an incentive. I raised an objection to that idea I don't know if it had totally died but I do not know of anyone who did. I know I would strenuously refuse. If the therapy can't stand on it's own two legs, then it shouldn't stand. I have recommended other to go there when I saw how out of control the family situation was. I personally would never accept a fee. For me it is a slap in the face.
Like I said before, I do not agree with every idea that has ever been proposed, but over-all, I find the usefullness of the program to be intact. As many ideas, some have to be tried before to figure out what works best.

[Antigen]

On 2003-07-25 21:17:00, METALGOD8 wrote:

"OK, well, you are right, there was no TV back in 1700's, so I guess it's not an inherent right of a child to be able to watch TV.

In 1700, summers were long, school days were short, and the whole town turned up for barn-yard ho-downs or Quaker meetings or apple pie contests or whatever. Then there was the local grapevine that was woven into the fabric of every aspect of life.

Denying a kid access to TV, books, magazines, newspapers, radio, phone, contact with friends and family, religious services, a walk down the street or any kind of solitude today would be just like... well, it would be just like keeping a bunch of kid locked in a barn, isolated from every aspect of social life in 1700.

Every man has a property in his own person.
This nobody has any right to but himself.
The labor of his body and the work of his
 hands are properly his.


--John Locke

[METALGOD8]

Ah, but what about the Amish? They don't watch TV do they? I think it does not apply to them, as they are in a niche all by themselves, but, did they ever fight for the Independence? Anti? You know? I know they are strict about radios and TV's and the like. You may see them having one of them hodowns round here, of course some have Big tractors that hog one and a half lanes, but, I guess they gotta keep up with the times somehow.

MG8 :smokin:

[Anonymous]

Antigen, for Christ sake! You are that concerned with loosing priveledges for 3 months? I guess because you are a teenager.... 3 months is an eternity. To us who are older, it is over in flash. If it took you longer to get to that level, then look no further than in the mirror for the reasons.

I hope no one signs up for military duty. I think you will be surprised what rights you have or do not have in our democratic nation.If you doubt that, talk to someone who has. The reasonings for what is done to you in the military does not have to have a therapeutic reason behind them or be just. As the saying goes, There's the right way, the wrong way and the ARMY way. You are just required to obey orders. In my mind the time spent working on family dysfunction is worth the trade off of no television. Poooor babies!I guess I am not talking to young adults in here, just whiny babies. By the way, all current events, newspapers, computer are available for all who need to do school work. Free time is used working on therapy issues. I did not put my child in Pathway for a vacation or a place to run away from problems. We are there to WORK ON PROBLEMS. If you cannot see that then not much use in discussing the matter. The therapy is intense but my child had been abusing drugs for a few years before Pathway. I guess I am just supposed to wave a magic wand and all is good again. Another idea from Fantasy Land.

That seems to be a big theme in this room. Therapy from Fantasy Land. No one wants to work on anything...they just want a quick fix or do nothing. That what drugs and alcohol did. I guess it was not so successful. Recovery is something you have to work at. It does not come without a personal sacrifice. Nothing ever worth having ever does.

So get off the family tit and hold yourself accountable. Do what has to be done and get on with life.

[METALGOD8]

OK, so now that you have insulted the people that know better, why should we acknowledge you anymore? What were you doing when your child was becoming a drug abuser? Where were you? Do you think you have all the answers by sending your child to the spawn of the world's most NOTORIOUS drug rehabilitation program known to mankind?
The only clues you apparently have are the ones you get coming in here and reading what it's like from a survivor's perspective.
I would NEVER put my kids in a STRAIGHT, INC. spawn program, EVER! I teach them to avoid drugs, give them reasons to be happy in their lives without drugs. Parents that put their kids in programs like Pathway are looking for reasons to justify their lack of attention earlier in their kid's life. You'll probably think this is laying a "guilt trip" on you or something, but, back to my earlier question, what were YOU doing when your kid was abusing drugs? I would hope that you did not offer drugs to your kid, but, you are anonymous and we have never met, so I have no idea about your parenting history.
It would apppear that you won't have to worry about Pathway much longer anyway, so maybe you should move on with your life too. Come back in 5-10 years and let us know how your kid is doing. I have personally talked to over 150 survivors of STRAIGHT, Pathway, LIFE, SAFE, Synanon, Kids Helping Kids, Kids of New Jersey, and I have found only 5 that have not used any drugs since their stays in those programs. This does not mean that there aren't more that haven't, but I only speak from MY experience. Did you do any research into the suicides? I guess you haven't, but that is a real issue that affects people, even in Pathway.
Well, please answer that where were you when question. Thank you.

MG8 :smokin:

[Anonymous]

On 2003-07-27 17:38:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Antigen, for Christ sake! You are that concerned with loosing priveledges for 3 months? I guess because you are a teenager.... 3 months is an eternity. To us who are older, it is over in flash. If it took you longer to get to that level, then look no further than in the mirror for the reasons.

]
Its obvious you dont know what the hell is going on with the people are discussing these topics with. In antigen's defense she is not a teenager and i can alreday tell is more grown up than you are. i ues she just doesnt need to stoop to your level of judging someone on te numbers of years theyve been living. I am however a teenager d am willing to bet that ive been through more in my 18 years tan most have in a whole lifetime.
Get Your Shit Straght Before You Start Talking It :exclaim:
peace--- :evil: --smith

[butternationalist]

On 2003-07-27 17:38:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Antigen, for Christ sake! You are that concerned with loosing priveledges for 3 months? I guess because you are a teenager.... 3 months is an eternity. To us who are older, it is over in flash. If it took you longer to get to that level, then look no further than in the mirror for the reasons.

]
Its obvious you dont know what the hell is going on with the people are discussing these topics with. In antigen's defense she is not a teenager and i can alreday tell is more grown up than you are. i ues she just doesnt need to stoop to your level of judging someone on te numbers of years theyve been living. I am however a teenager d am willing to bet that ive been through more in my 18 years tan most have in a whole lifetime.
Get Your Shit Straght Before You Start Talking It :exclaim:
peace--- :evil: --smith

[Carmel]

Your know Anon, every time you come up wanting for something to respond with...you degenrate into this name-calling BS about Fantasy therapy and our unwillingness to look at ourselves and so forth.  Its really amusing.  I am not a young adult, no, I ceased to be a young adult somewhere after the age of 27 I think, I am fairly certain you cant pretend to be a child when you are riding into your thirties with children of your own.

I am expressing a genuine concern for the well-being of your child based on my experience with the program you are in.  The fact that you cannot internalize the maturity of this in a forthcoming manner speaks volumes of your own denial and unwillingness to deal with issues.  I really find it difficult to see where you state that we dont want to "work on anything" and want "quick fixes", waving a wand and making it all better is an idea I havent seen stated in any post thus far except in yours.  Nothing I have mentioned is akin to using drugs and alchohol or instituting quick fixes or not taking responsibility.  I am challenging you to see that what you are doing may be those very things that you like to accuse the rest of us of.  

I see nothing more than someone regressing into a shroud of espousing program dogma in order to deny that anything besides what the almighty PFC tells you might be true.

The crap you say about working on issues and working on myself and taking accountability, its all by wrote.  Its all the same tape played over and over and over in our "treatment".  I have heard these same words a phrases countless times.  See, I have a leg up on you in that I WAS IN THE PROGRAM.  I wasnt a parent or a sibiling.  And you are acting like you are telling me some shit I havent heard before and its going to make a profound difference in the shift of this exchange.  OPEN YOUR EYES.

Recovery is something to work on yes, for those who need to recover.  You are in denial and I feel sad for that, truly I do.  Please take a look at the gentleman's post who met with the Executive of PFC, how can you be blind to that information?  How can you look away?  How can you be presented with the facts and not HOLD YOURSELF AND PFC ACCOUNTABLE? THAT is the lie, THAT is the fantasy, and YOU will not see it.  Please refrain from talking to us as if we were 16 year olds who just fell off the Program bus and have an axe to grind.  Its ridiculous.