How it Works

[Anonymous]

The thread where this was posted got painseries'd and square wave'd, so repost.

You can expend a great deal of energy bickering about whether physical conditions can be deemed abusive or not. The physical conditions are, when all is said and done, merely symptoms and crude barometers of where the true, diabolical abuse often lies: deep in the psyche of the kids that go to these places.

I can think of camping experiences I've had where the physical conditions might meet the criteria of conditions that some might deem "abusive," but I did not consider them abusive. Why? I wasn't being brainwashed. It was summer camp, not reprogramming.

On the other hand, there are places like ASR where some of the kids experience conditions that can be deemed physically abusive, but some do not. Depends on the kid and the particular dynamic with personnel that are there at that given point in time, etc. etc. Something might be said about what kind of number gets done on a kid's head seeing that shit go on around you, whether you, yourself, have to jump through those hoops or not. 'Cuz real point of places like ASR is reprogramming, and the way that it gets done is psychologically abusive, whether you can put your finger on specific "evidence" or not. Much of the damage done does not surface right away, might even take years to surface for some kids.

There is also something else I should say about places like this. There is such a power trip mentality going on amongst many of the staff (they get psyched into this by the program), and such a degradation of respect for other people's autonomy (inherent to the reprogramming), that these conditions often end up translating into sexual abuse of the minors who get sent here to get "fixed" and "straightened out." Again, it can take years before those truths see the light of day. Those kids are informed that they are "special," that other people "wouldn't understand," blah blah blah... Just a heads up for you, for what it's worth...

[Anne Bonney]

Nice catch.   Nice post.
:tup:

[TheWho]

The thread where this was posted got painseries'd and square wave'd, so repost.

You can expend a great deal of energy bickering about whether physical conditions can be deemed abusive or not. The physical conditions are, when all is said and done, merely symptoms and crude barometers of where the true, diabolical abuse often lies: deep in the psyche of the kids that go to these places.

I can think of camping experiences I've had where the physical conditions might meet the criteria of conditions that some might deem "abusive," but I did not consider them abusive. Why? I wasn't being brainwashed. It was summer camp, not reprogramming.

On the other hand, there are places like ASR where some of the kids experience conditions that can be deemed physically abusive, but some do not. Depends on the kid and the particular dynamic with personnel that are there at that given point in time, etc. etc. Something might be said about what kind of number gets done on a kid's head seeing that shit go on around you, whether you, yourself, have to jump through those hoops or not. 'Cuz real point of places like ASR is reprogramming, and the way that it gets done is psychologically abusive, whether you can put your finger on specific "evidence" or not. Much of the damage done does not surface right away, might even take years to surface for some kids.

There is also something else I should say about places like this. There is such a power trip mentality going on amongst many of the staff (they get psyched into this by the program), and such a degradation of respect for other people's autonomy (inherent to the reprogramming), that these conditions often end up translating into sexual abuse of the minors who get sent here to get "fixed" and "straightened out." Again, it can take years before those truths see the light of day. Those kids are informed that they are "special," that other people "wouldn't understand," blah blah blah... Just a heads up for you, for what it's worth...

A better place for this post, I agree.

Hmmm..Urus,  we almost agree on some points.  I have been chasing some of this here on fornits for some time.  Abuse is a personal and relative term.  Not having 24/7 access to a phone is not considered abusive to most people.  Some kids feel the few times they do get to phone home is abusive and others wish they could talk more often, so no matter how you structure the rules there will be those who feel it to be unfair (abusive).  
Any unhealthy external stimuli the children are exposed to can be considered psychological abuse, if kids are exposed to abuse around them, fist fights, drug overdoses, road rage, controlling relationships etc. even if it isn’t being done to them it can be just as damaging in most cases and the effects may not be immediately evident or come to the surface.
The environment at ASR, and schools like them, are free from these types of outside stresses that are harmful to kids.  The environment allows the kids to get back to a healthy life style thru structure, nurturing, peer support and adult modeling.  It’s modifying a child’s behavior by providing them with a safe place to grow and get back on track, giving them healthy choices, not brain washing.  Many people posting here are basing their views on phased out programs which didn’t work over 30 years ago.  Its frustrating watching peoples outdated information being misapplied to some of these better schools which are constantly evolving and improving as new studies emerge.  

As far as staff abusing the children, I would have to say that anytime you put people in charge of kids there is a risk of those people in charge to abuse their power, whether it be in your local school system, summer camp counselor or staff at a boarding school.  But the boarding school staff work with at-risk youths full time and are trained in this area, most are working towards higher degrees in the mental health field and are gaining experience working with children.  This isn’t just a summer job for them to make money, most are on a well defined and determined path towards a long career in the industry. Schools like ASR also do further screening and training, staff rotations etc. to ensure this doesn’t occur.

Okay, I'll step off my soapbox, just my 2 cents.

[Anne Bonney]

 Not having 24/7 access to a phone is not considered abusive to most people.  Some kids feel the few times they do get to phone home is abusive and others wish they could talk more often, so no matter how you structure the rules there will be those who feel it to be unfair (abusive).

No, its the context in which the calls are either prohibited or monitored.  There is no reason in the world why a kid shouldn't be able to speak to their parents on request with no interference from the staff.  The reason programs prevent private conversations is to maintain the isolation and control over the child.  Its like the "talk "privilege" at Straight.  Once we "earned the right" to speak to our own parents, it was under the strict supervision of staff and any mention of criticism or complaint and the talk was immediately halted and the parents were told that we were lying to manipulate them into pulling us out.

Its all about thought, environment and information control.


 

Any unhealthy external stimuli the children are exposed to can be considered psychological abuse, if kids are exposed to abuse around them, fist fights, drug overdoses, road rage, controlling relationships etc. even if it isn’t being done to them it can be just as damaging in most cases and the effects may not be immediately evident or come to the surface.
The environment at ASR, and schools like them, are free from these types of outside stresses that are harmful to kids.  The environment allows the kids to get back to a healthy life style thru structure, nurturing, peer support and adult modeling.  It’s modifying a child’s behavior by providing them with a safe place to grow and get back on track, giving them healthy choices, not brain washing.  Many people posting here are basing their views on phased out programs which didn’t work over 30 years ago.  Its frustrating watching peoples outdated information being misapplied to some of these better schools which are constantly evolving and improving as new studies emerge.  

Because its based on and using the same methodologies, techniques and approaches as what Straight and the rest are.  

As far as staff abusing the children, I would have to say that anytime you put people in charge of kids there is a risk of those people in charge to abuse their power, whether it be in your local school system, summer camp counselor or staff at a boarding school.  But the boarding school staff work with at-risk youths full time and are trained in this area, most are working towards higher degrees in the mental health field and are gaining experience working with children.  This isn’t just a summer job for them to make money, most are on a well defined and determined path towards a long career in the industry. Schools like ASR also do further screening and training, staff rotations etc. to ensure this doesn’t occur.

Nope.  Stanford Prison Study is all you need to know.  Especially because these places are largely staffed by former clients/patients (inmates) who have been spoonfed the same bullshit that's been passed down for oh, what?  40 years now?   They're not exactly the healthiest of subjects to begin with and putting them in a position of such absolute power over vulnerable teenagers is insane.

http://www.prisonexp.org/

[Anonymous]

Just in case everyone forgot what we're actually talking about here, here's one of your previous posts, Anne.

http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=244399#244399

[TheWho]

Anne, if you notice all your reference material comes from the 1970's...your prison study was done in 1971 and doesnt even apply to a therapeutic enviornment...even if you referenced data from the late 1990's I would have to say it is outdated.


As far as the phones go I dont think anyone buys into the fact that not having phones is abusive...I would argue that giving all the kids gameboys and cell phones to use at will would be equally abusive to themselves and no one is going to hop on the phone and start telling the parents their kids are lieing to them....its an open communication enviornment....nothing would work if staff did things like that.  You have no point of refernce to argue about what goes on at ASR, you havent been there and havent had kids attend there.

[Anne Bonney]

Anne, if you notice all your reference material comes from the 1970's...your prison study was done in 1971 and doesnt even apply to a therapeutic enviornment...even if you referenced data from the late 1990's I would have to say it is outdated.


As far as the phones go I dont think anyone buys into the fact that not having phones is abusive...I would argue that giving all the kids gameboys and cell phones to use at will would be equally abusive to themselves and no one is going to hop on the phone and start telling the parents their kids are lieing to them....its an open communication enviornment....nothing would work if staff did things like that.  You have no point of refernce to argue about what goes on at ASR, you havent been there and havent had kids attend there.

Its not just "phones" themselves.  Its denying, restricting or monitoring communication between parent and child.  The fact that you keep bringing up the game boy and cell phone references smacks of the attitude that these are nothing more than spoiled kids not getting what they want.

How typically program of you.

[TheWho]

Denying and restricting is just that, not allowing the kids to have a phone 24/7.
You as a parent should know this isnt healthy, kids shouldnt be on the phone all the time or engaged in constant gameboy activity, there needs to be restrictions.

[Anne Bonney]

Denying and restricting is just that, not allowing the kids to have a phone 24/7.
You as a parent should know this isnt healthy, kids shouldnt be on the phone all the time or engaged in constant gameboy activity, there needs to be restrictions.

That's not what we're talking about at all and you know it.  We're talking about censoring and restricting communication between a parent and child.

[TheWho]

Not censuring, but restricting, yes.  There needs to be limits put on phone use as well as the times they eat, sleep etc.

[Anne Bonney]

Not censuring, but restricting, yes.  There needs to be limits put on phone use as well as the times they eat, sleep etc.

BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.  We're talking about how if a 'student' complains about conditions or treatment, the parents are told they're being manipulative and lying.  Why can a child not have UNMONITORED COMMUNICATION with their child?  Why can't a child call their parent when they feel the need to?  We're not talking about keeping them from calling their old friends, we're talking about why programs feel the need to monitor or restrict communication (not just calls, letter are read and handed back to the student if they're not 'suitable') between a PARENT and child?

[TheWho]

My cell phone didn’t work up there at ASR one time and I used the same phones the kids use to call home.  There was a bank of phones, like one of those test benches at the library with partitions for privacy and it was also the same area that staff used, it had desks, but it was about 10-20 feet away and staff were always in the room in case there was a conflict, but they could not hear the individual conversations.  My daughter and I spoke fine and she felt she could talk openly.

[Anne Bonney]

THIS is the kind of bullshit we're talking about.





http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=244399#244399

J
He had two major depressions by the time he was 14; he was a ?different? and musically gifted child who was bullied. As a defense, he started dressing like a Goth and hanging out with Goths?he had a lot of suicidal ideation. The public high school would not keep him because of his suicidal talk and when he got to the ER, he denied suicidal ideation. It was a mess and I wanted him supervised 24/7 BUT not in a hospital short term because he had long-term problems that he needed time to address. Someone in the posts above suggested a ?regular? boarding school?none would have taken a Goth who talked about the desirability of dying ASAP. He only actually made one weak suicidal gesture, but I take this risk VERY seriously in a teen with major depression.

http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t= ... c&start=60

There were more kids who were dangers to themselves. I honestly think ASR is very lucky in that no one has succeeded in committing suicide. I can tell you first hand that for someone with major depression ASR could drive you past breaking point easily. It seemed like they pick and chose who they took seriously about being suicidal. I was not taken seriously, and had my roommate not been in the room one day, I may well have taken my life. I do not say that to evoke pity or anything else like that, and I was not using it to "manipulate" ( a favorite ASR term)

http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t= ... c&start=60
Three Springs Waygookin wrote:
1) What is self-study?

2) Describe this Escorting more please?

3) Why was a student doing the escorting of a self-harming/suicidal resident and not a staff member?


A self study was the worst of the three major consequences. (reflection, challenge, self study). You had work projects, all free time was spent at your table, facing the wall. Lots of writing assignments. Loss of all privileges. Standing during all meetings. You most likely had strict bans

Basically I had to take her back to the dorm and be with her while she gathered up her things and changed, etc. I don't remember if she showered or not. I was basically there to make sure she didn't attempt again.

I don't know why they had me do it. I was "trusted" at that point, and honestly... probably a better choice than some of the staff.

http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t= ... r&start=15
yes, they did. to a large degree. Dean Kent (the staff mentioned in the article) was gone by the time i had arrived. (he was there in 1997, and i got to ASR in Cummington, MA on January 5th of 1998) i had heard from other students about Dean, that he was a really nice guy but fired b/c he'd called DSS on them. Brett Carey was still the Dean of Student Life when i arrived, and his wife Lisa also helped in the fitness department & was pregnant when i first arrived. They had 2 other daughters, Madison & Carly. The whole thought was a bit frightening, because when we had the 2 hour group "therapy" sessions 2 times a week, they were harsh and abusive to say the least. All of us students would be split into 2 groups, and we'd be rounded up in a circle to get screamed at, belittled and dehumanized. They called it "confrontational", although it was more like verbal abuse and intentional slaughtering.
i was very afraid while i was there, as a student with an extensive sexual abuse history involving rape & incest, i was constantly the target of this slaughtering, esp. b/c i was overweight at the time. needless to say, i left ASR with anorexia some 19 months later.
Brett & other students were all allowed to scream vulgarities at you, called you a "fat bitch, slut," and all. at the age of 15 i learned the word "dildo" while playing scrabble with Brett. One of my roomates claimed that Brett had forced her into sexual operations.
Most of all, it was excusable for students to haze each other.
It was almost looked at as funny. One Staff named Kristen Merhoff gave me funny looks and made sarcastic and patronizing comments when i'd opened up to her about my eating disorder.
Later on, a staff named Amy Robichaud would scream at me for ruining my life, pushing everyone away, talking about how i was a disasterous person, unworthy of being loved. To say the least, she was an abusive person, much alike a person in the throws of an addiction like alchoholism & drug addictions, both of which she admittedly had. There was a great deal of favoritism there, even staff who seemed to want to gain the approval of certain students.
The labor & sleep deprivation that was mentioned in the article is most likely in reference to the "Lifesteps". These were so called "workshops" it was mandatory for all students to attend. Staff and students would be expected to open up there deepest and most unknown
secrets for the sake of "growing". It's true, there was little sleeping allowed & often i myself left feeling shamed & ridiculed.
i was one of the main targets in that school the entire time i was there, a target of hazing & was even blamed for a student breaking into the med office and comsuming large quantities of my prescriptions. For the first 5 months i was there, you could litterally leave, go smoke 1/2 a pack of cigarettes, drop a couple tabs of acid, take like 5 hits off a joint come back & they wouldn't even realize it.
ASR is, to say the least, a very very fucked up place. i have several more things to say, but this whole thing would take eons.

http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t= ... r&start=30

I am a former student at ASR. I was in the first peer group, 97-98. My experience there haunts me to this day. I have read many articles that refer to the "old staff" and "new staff". I cannot speak for the way ASR is run now, being 2004, but I can speak for how it was run in 97 and 98. Let me start by saying that I am not an angry, defiant kid who is trying to start trouble for ASR. I have graduated high school and am about to graduate college and enter law school. I don't get into trouble, I am a productive member of society, and want people to know the truth. We were badgered, belittled, sworn at, made to stay up all night during "life steps" and given only small rations of food, had all calls to our parents monitored by staff and had the phone hung up on us if we tried to complain to our parents about these things, scrutinized and humiliated on a daily basis. Our mail was read, staff lost their voices by yelling so loudly at us, I personally was called a "slut", a rich little Daddysgirl, a doormat, told my dad tried to buy my love with money, made to discuss personal sexual and private experiences in group sessions with other peers, made to write a ten page paper by hand about what my "issues" were, and if the staff didn't like it, I started over ( this was because I was too close to my friend there, and they put us on bans so we couldn't talk to each other). People, whomever wants to hear specific stories about all of these things, I would be more than happy to share with you!!! email me at [email protected] i bet i can help you get her out of there


I also graduated from ASR very recently on August the 6th. And I can tell you right now that any kid who complained, their parents were manipulated right out of believing them. There was extreme emotional abuse there, and the only reason anyone's behavior was modified was because they were scared shitless of staying there longer or going to a worse program. We were so scared, your own friends turned against you and you couldnt trust them. The group sessions were awful. One of my friends who had issues with sleeping around was in group and the counselor in the room told her that she might as well keep a mattress tied to her back. Daily, I heard awful things about myself and everyday I was just so sad. Places like this are awful and they need to be stopped. ASR isnt even the worst of them but they all need to go.

http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t= ... r&start=60

I am a an ASR graduate. I graduated in October of 03. At the end of the program I believed that ASR had done a lot for me. Looking back I am shocked that I ever thought that. I was made to turn against my friends and turn them in for the slightest rule breaking (for example listening to music). In group we were often degraded and yelled at, supposedly to make us better. Several times I was suicidal and instead of worrying they told me I was lying and being manipulative. In one group eveyone was allowed to go around and say their judgements against everyone else things like "youre a fat slut". That group was horrible. You were scared into being good and behaving. I'm not sure why I thought this place was so great, I feel as if I was brainwashed in a way.
The wilderness experience was horrible. I spent over 40 days in the outdoors being punished for any little thing we did wrong. My first day I had to run 20 minutes and when I stopped the counselers screamed at me and when i vomited they didnt care. just told me i shouldt have drank so muich water.

[

Bump.


Thanks for finding it anon.
 :wink:



The above is essentially no different from Straight or the others.  Sure there are some superficial differences, but not the kind that matter.  The heart of Synanon's 'Therapeutic Community" approach and "The Game" beat in all of them.

[TheWho]

So at least you can see that the phones are not totally banned and conversations are not listened in on.  There needs to be limits placed on the number of calls.....

many kids complain, yes, but they are use to having their cell phone with them and it is an adjustment for them.

[Anne Bonney]

So at least you can see that the phones are not totally banned and conversations are not listened in on.  There needs to be limits placed on the number of calls.....

many kids complain, yes, but they are use to having their cell phone with them and it is an adjustment for them.

No, I never said that.  You did.  Don't put words in my mouth.  The postings above by the victims of ASR speak volumes.