What R some of the worst disco groups U ever sat thru?

[Ursus]

Cindy, Jane, Lenny

Lenny ran away.  The Warrens let him back in: family over Hyde dogma.  

How long was Marble there?   I recall a story about a trainer.  I can see the mans face in the corner of my mind.  The story goes like this:

  He was warping the ace bandage around my thigh and rubbing the muscle. his hand worked it's way to my crotch and he started to rub my vagina.

 This girl never reported it, but told her parents.  She was out of Hyde before then end of the year.

Didn't know about that--the ace bandage of doom.  Think Marble may have also been on the wrestling coaching staff, too--but might be confusing him with Sataloff (sp?) who might have succeeded Marble as trainer--and scored a hyde (student-turned-staff) wife in the bargain.  Jenny was great.

Cindy, Jane, Lenny,  Carolyn
Carolyn never went to hyde, lucky girl.

A VERY familiar theme, I might add... "My Fair Hyde Lady"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Fair_Lady

[Ursus]

Back to the topic--
Worst seminar (school mtg) was the Marble naked body-fat test debacle.  The admin took NO responsibility for letting that boneheaded (bone-something) plan proceed, but let the whole school roast that family mercilessly. Misery.  As if the core problem was their family dynamic.  such bullshit.

Was this when Legg was headmaster and he and others had some issue with the girls' being too fat?  And they all had to be measured in their birthday suits cuz the brassiere's would have "skewed the measurements too much?"

What family was roasted for this?  Why didn't Legg take responsibility if he was headmaster?  Maybe he was getting his jolllies off on this?  He is some sick fuck.

Yep, that's the seminar.  The Marble family was roasted, as it was primarily the dad's (as athletic trainer) "fitness program" at issue.  Never quite thought he was the pervert portrayed in that meeting--just thought he was absurdly overzealous about high school athletic fitness.  The other coaches had to be on board on some level. No thought about how the absent parents of female students would feel about having their daughters stripped naked by non-medical personnel.  Legg may have been an out of touch admin on this one, but his jollies weren't in question.  The guy has his problems, but hitting on the high-school honeys wasn't his M.O., as far as I know.  And it was his daughter that complained.

It certainly sounds like the Marble family's roasting was unfair.  And, I'm sorry to say, but it also sounds very typical of the Hyde that I knew to pin all the blame for "the problem" on a select few sacrificial lambs.  Psychological road kill, as it were, along that noble path of changing the face of American education.  

I doubt coach Marble was entirely blameless, but I agree, it's just not possible for the other coaches not to be on board on some level as well.  I'll go with your assessment of his motives, but I have to differ with you on Legg's.

I can't picture Legg "hitting on high-school honeys" - not his M.O., I agree, the guy was too antiseptic to get his hands dirty like that.  Rather, it is a prurient focus on sexual matters, per se that I find so sick, almost like they feel they have a right to own kids' sexual development, which direction it goes, how quickly it develops, and with whom.  And this is a focus that Hyde as an institution has also demonstrated over the years, and that Joe Gauld has demonstrated as well, albeit in different ways than Legg.

How can a place dehumanize kids' sense of autonomy and fragile budding sexual development so much... that they could herd these kids butt naked into a fat measuring session, which bore more resemblance to a cattle inspection prior to slaughter, than anything remotely related to PhysEd... and nobody (save one small soul) at that place thought to question it?  Easy, the attitude and mindset which produced that circumstance was already endemic to the place.  It has always been that way.  And it is still that way today.

[Joseph W. Gauld]

Ah, damnin' tarnation, Bear Boy, you are gettin' jes too frigin' prissy on me here!!!  Don't tell me, ya have to actually clean yer claws before using them, har har har!!  Just what kind of a touchy-feely candy-assed panty-waist are you, eh?  Sounds like you need an old fashioned wedgie to sharpen up your sensibilities, har har!

Personally, I often like to target the fiery girly-girl delinquents, their uppityness is more of a front and easily squashed, even with all their sassy bravado.  And ooohhhh, when they finally do come around, triumph is never so "precious," mm mm mm...  Sah-WEEET!!!  But I can't indulge myself too frequently, or public sentiment might run against me... heh heh!  Not that it hasn't already done so on occasion, but... I've weathered those times pretty well, I think...

Another favorite profile of mine are the uppity well-meaning parents.  Here they sit in family seminar, fat with confidence that I will recognize the depth of their good intentions and undying commitment.... Har har har!!  Easy pickin's, I'll sucker punch them right in front of their peers and their lard-assed kids!  Hoo boy, do I ever get a RUSH out of those jobs!! Har har!  Politically correct dufusses like that Ass-Cow Gary give me particular personal satisfaction... I always hated guys like that, always saying the right thing, never drinking to excess, so damn frigin' polite!!

Ready to sow my oats at any age,
Joseph W. Gauld, The Educator

[Anonymous]

i sat through one in woodstock where a kid was pressured into "coming out" ...it was very painful to watch. to this still have no idea whether he was gay. but either way that had to be traumatizing.

[Ursus]

i sat through one in woodstock where a kid was pressured into "coming out" ...it was very painful to watch. to this still have no idea whether he was gay. but either way that had to be traumatizing.

And what was the point, seriously, of having to "come out" in Seminar/Discovery Group?  Seems to me that of all the so-called sins present in the world today, what one's sexual preference is should be pretty low on the list, regardless of how you feel about  homosexuality or homosexuals, one way or the other.

But... one's sexual identification rates pretty high in the realm of hot topics close to one's core, i.e., where you are most vulnerable.  And that's why they're interested.  The scenario you describe could and did happen during my time as well.  Guess not much has changed in this arena.

Historically, Hyde has always been rabidly anti-gay.  I can recall long drawn-out droning speeches in school meetings by Ed Legg in the 70's, where he pontificated at length about the "unnaturalness" of the act and how "opting" to be homosexual was indicative of one's unwillingness to take responsibility for one's life, blah blah blah...  The word "responsibility" was emphasized over and over again.  I remember sitting there thinking about someone in Senior Leadership who was about as gay as they come, and wondering how he was dealing with this.  I think that in order to survive you have to go into a certain amount of self-denial about it.  Which will certainly come at great cost to your sanity later on.

Of course, back then, even with all the witch hunts for gays going on, Henry Milton was engaging in all sorts of questionable activity with some boys, not to mention that old hawk-nosed fart Sumner Hawley even "doing" returning alums.  Yeah, I kinda liked old Sums 'cuz he actually valued having a brain (he was educated elsewhere), but that kind of sexual predation is simply inexcusable.

Hyde is a very expensive "education."  I figure 10 years of therapy for every year spent there is a pretty good ballpark figure for some.

[Anonymous]

thinking about someone in Senior Leadership who was about as gay as they come,

   He looked great in those danskins and even better out of them.


Sumnah

[Ed Legg]

speeches in school meetings by Ed Legg in the 70's, where he pontificated at length about the "unnaturalness" of the act and how "opting" to be homosexual was indicative of one's unwillingness to take responsibility for one's life

  Damn right I did.  Look at Paul.  He took my advice and he made a bundle off those new age crystal gazing west coast loony tunes.  That doesn't mean you can't have a little man to man fun once in a while.  I like to go out and find me a Broke Back Mountain cowboy every so often.  I like a little tofu once in a while too.  But mostly I am a meat and tatter kind of guy.  I remember you being a little fruity.  But thats ok.

Hugs and Kisses

Ed

[Ursus]

speeches in school meetings by Ed Legg in the 70's, where he pontificated at length about the "unnaturalness" of the act and how "opting" to be homosexual was indicative of one's unwillingness to take responsibility for one's life

Damn right I did.  Look at Paul.  He took my advice and he made a bundle off those new age crystal gazing west coast loony tunes.  That doesn't mean you can't have a little man to man fun once in a while.  I like to go out and find me a Broke Back Mountain cowboy every so often.  I like a little tofu once in a while too.  But mostly I am a meat and tatter kind of guy.  I remember you being a little fruity.  But thats ok.

Hugs and Kisses

Ed

 ::roflmao::  ::roflmao::  ::roflmao::  ::roflmao::  ::roflmao::
Ah, Ed, I think you might be fishing in the wrong lake, eh?  Or maybe with the wrong fishing pole... ha ha
All that crazy shit that went down at Hyde made me more inclined to be asexual than anything else.  At least I could savor my sanity in the solitude of my lonely lair.

[Ursus]

Ursus-- Mr. W-- Cindy's dad?  that was slightly before my time.

The thought just occurred to me that there are a least two "Mr. W's" discussed at any length here on the Hyde forum, and I just wanted to make brief mention of both of them in case Guest meant the other one, or anyone reading herein at a later date gets confused...

At the time of the above post (the previous page in this thread), I had assumed poster meant Bud Warren (i.e, the father of Cyndi, Jane, Lenny, and Carolyn), who used to teach at Hyde for a number of years early in its history.  

However, there is another Mr. W mentioned elsewhere here on the forum, namely Larry Willwerth (sp?), who also taught at Hyde for a few years in the early/mid 70s.  There is a thread started about this Mr. W here:

Burnside's Piece on Mr. W

http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=21123[/list]The original entry, from which that thread spun off, is here:

A Negative Experience

http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=14639[/list]
Hope that clears up any confusion, if indeed there was any.

[Anonymous]

I always remember the time the large boy of authority let slip a tearful sentence that eluded to his gay porn troubles, confirming campus speculation. Word never really got out about that, though, but I knew.

My favorite FLC group memory began like this. The dark boy announced "Mom, I have something to tell you."

"I've found something that really speaks to me. Some people I can relate to. Mom... I've converted to Satanism." A mother in the group immediately began to chuckle but caught herself in less than a second. He turned to his mother, extolling the virtues of his newfound beliefs, but he soon was asking "Mom, why are you crying?" He was absolutely dead serious in everything he said. He was a young man who never joked. After some very awkward back-and-forth between the son and mother, the group gave feedback. The mother who had initially found the situation humorous apologized. I looked at my own mother, who was covering her face, looking pained. I wondered if she was truly upset by the situation. I was biting my tongue increasingly hard to contain myself. The star feedback came when a girl offered words of comfort to the boy. "I understand your position. My parent's aren't tolerant of my religious beliefs either. I'm a witch."

Immediately upon the dismissal of the meeting and as soon as we were outside and out of earshot, I turned to my mother and asked why she had covered her face. "I couldn't keep a straight face. I didn't want them to see me laughing."

We laughed extremely hard for fifteen minutes straight, and then tried to conceal our continued laughter as we went to lunch.

[Ursus]

Well... kudos to you and your mum for having your heads screwed on straight.  And kudos for having the kind of relationship where that can be shared amongst the two of you.

But... as crazy as you may consider me for saying this, it seems (to me) that you've aptly illustrated one of my contentions re. the mindset percolating away within the hallowed halls of blue and gold... People get ripened to pledge allegiance to some of the craziest of notions... They get robbed of their ability to think critically.  To buy the schtick – and the pressure is great for the unfortunate who do not fit in naturally – you end up giving away the ability to judge.  My take on it, of course, stemming from my own time...

What are your thoughts on that?  And what happened afterwards to those two kids you mentioned, i.e., the Satanist and the Witch?

And do explain more re. the other situation, namely:

I always remember the time the large boy of authority let slip a tearful sentence that eluded to his gay porn troubles, confirming campus speculation. Word never really got out about that, though, but I knew.

I do believe I know exactly who you are talking about, ha ha!  He married into the family, once removed, no?

[Anonymous]

You make a point, Ursus. It wasn't necessarily the most far-fetched or ridiculous thing to hear, but the kid kept piling it on to the poor mother worse and worse, and nobody was listening with any sense. I don't know if anyone besides myself and my mother even saw the ludicrous situation. After The Witch spoke, someone said "please, let's not make this an argument about religion." I make it sound fairly good, but my words can't do it justice. I'm almost glad to have been in that room for the memory alone.

The Satanist wasn't a bad kid, and his family desperately wanted to accept him, and he really wanted to have a good relationship with his family, but he refused to admit that it might be possible. He was not willing to try. I hope for his sake he changes in that respect. I think when I left him he was doing a little bit better. His hygiene had improved: he used to wear the same disgusting filthy necktie every day, which was way tied way too short and never undone, just slipped over his head each time he dressed. The Witch is a daughter of Hyde faculty, and I never really got to know her well enough to call her a crazy nutcase witch.

As far as the other boy goes, I don't think anyone ever mentioned it to him again. It was so quick I wasn't sure anyone else heard it. I did hear what I heard, though: I talked to my parents about it afterwards. He was really letting it out, which I was pleased to see because he's usually this stoic wall, and just about never lets on to his real feelings, because he is one of the biggest fakes I've ever known. He's such a phony I think he sometimes fools himself. He got so into being a "hyde leader" he got shitty grades, because it was more important to him to be proctoring than studying. And he got pissy at ? for a good while just for openly telling his grades. ? didn't know he was trying to keep them a secret. I never knew what it was that made him hide his true self, but when a friend offered his own theory that the boy might be gay, I thought it would be a pretty good fit. When it was confirmed that the boy was tortured by hidden homosexual feelings, I felt it did do some explaining, though he's definitely still a jerk. Wrote something like "I don't like you" in ? yearbook (he didn't hate ? I don't think, he was in one of his moods). But I could understand him a little better, maybe. He'd only opened up for a second in front of his parents, two ultraconservative old folks, with his mother sickly and frail to the point they were afraid to confront her too hard, for she looked like she was on the brink of death.
His words were coming fast, and it was just something like he was talking about difficult challenges they had overcome and just slipped in "the porn, the straight porn, [looks away] gay porn..." It wasn't like anyone in the room was going to let their curiosity run wild during feedback.

I'd like to keep these kids privacy intact, but I can tell you that I left Hyde recently, and these kids were all of the same graduating class. I barely censored this post for my own privacy. I tried not to explicitly say I was involved with something unless it was critical to the story. But I wasn't talking about anyone else specific beyond me and those three kids, you know.

[Anonymous]

I talk too much. Damn.

[Jesus H Christ]

So how do you feel about being exposed to the inner workings of other families?  How do you feel about Hyde?  Was it a good experience?

[Ursus]

You make a point, Ursus. It wasn't necessarily the most far-fetched or ridiculous thing to hear, but the kid kept piling it on to the poor mother worse and worse, and nobody was listening with any sense. I don't know if anyone besides myself and my mother even saw the ludicrous situation. After The Witch spoke, someone said "please, let's not make this an argument about religion." I make it sound fairly good, but my words can't do it justice. I'm almost glad to have been in that room for the memory alone.

Give it time.  In half a dozen years, I wager that pretty much most of those who remember this discovery group will remember it pretty much the way you and your mum do.  Hyde's environment generally puts a real pall on seeing the overall big picture, i.e., "reality-check!"

The Satanist wasn't a bad kid, and his family desperately wanted to accept him, and he really wanted to have a good relationship with his family, but he refused to admit that it might be possible. He was not willing to try. I hope for his sake he changes in that respect. I think when I left him he was doing a little bit better. His hygiene had improved: he used to wear the same disgusting filthy necktie every day, which was way tied way too short and never undone, just slipped over his head each time he dressed. The Witch is a daughter of Hyde faculty, and I never really got to know her well enough to call her a crazy nutcase witch.

I'm no expert, but what I hear from this is that there is a real disconnect between personal identity and the identity these kids' families and/or Hyde wants them to have.  Seems I've read things of that ilk in pretty much every treatise on adolescence there is.  Isn't it part of your job, as a teenager, to question and test preconceived notions of the adult world?  Helps keep the rest of us on our toes, and helps reduce the numbers of hypocritical asses in the world, ha ha!  Sounds like that fellow's got his mum's buttons down pat.  Hell, if that had been my kid, *I* probably would have burst out laughing, but I guess I'm not exactly "Hyde parent material" then, am I?  

As far as the other boy goes, I don't think anyone ever mentioned it to him again. It was so quick I wasn't sure anyone else heard it. I did hear what I heard, though: I talked to my parents about it afterwards. He was really letting it out, which I was pleased to see because he's usually this stoic wall, and just about never lets on to his real feelings, because he is one of the biggest fakes I've ever known. He's such a phony I think he sometimes fools himself. He got so into being a "hyde leader" he got shitty grades, because it was more important to him to be proctoring than studying. And he got pissy at ? for a good while just for openly telling his grades. ? didn't know he was trying to keep them a secret. I never knew what it was that made him hide his true self, but when a friend offered his own theory that the boy might be gay, I thought it would be a pretty good fit. When it was confirmed that the boy was tortured by hidden homosexual feelings, I felt it did do some explaining, though he's definitely still a jerk. Wrote something like "I don't like you" in ? yearbook (he didn't hate ? I don't think, he was in one of his moods). But I could understand him a little better, maybe. He'd only opened up for a second in front of his parents, two ultraconservative old folks, with his mother sickly and frail to the point they were afraid to confront her too hard, for she looked like she was on the brink of death.
His words were coming fast, and it was just something like he was talking about difficult challenges they had overcome and just slipped in "the porn, the straight porn, [looks away] gay porn..." It wasn't like anyone in the room was going to let their curiosity run wild during feedback.

Well, this is a different person than the one I was thinking of (who is Hyde faculty, go figure).  Sad it is, when you describe more of the whole picture...  That kid has some serious self-esteem and self-acceptance issues.  I might go so far as to call it self-hatred.  Can't say I'm surprised to see that kind of thing not dealt with appropriately at Hyde; at a  bona fide school he would have definitely qualified for some long term therapy (but that would have gone against Hyde's premise for being, so no go).  

You sometimes read about middle-aged guys getting hooked on shit like that due to zero self-esteem, and it usually gets precipitated by some life crisis like job loss or marriage dissolution, etc. etc.  And yeah, it often comes out that the fellow has been closeted for years and couldn't come to grips with it.  And by that time, there are a million other issues and problems twisted into it making it that much more difficult to unravel and get back to a healthier outlook.  Pure speculation/observation on my part.  I'm hardly sane myself.   :wink:

I see the latent hostility expressed by writing that crap in the yearbook as part and parcel of the same thing.  That's pretty fucked up.  But I wouldn't take it personally, if I were the yearbook owner.  The dude really doesn't like himself.  And that's the really fucked up part.  Whatever does Hyde do for him?  Hyde just feeds into that and exploits his bad feelings about himself in the worst possible way.  This guy's a tragedy in the making.