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Offline starry-eyed pirate

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« on: June 04, 2007, 01:22:05 AM »
WHAT!!??...


FUCK THIS WHOLE FUCKIN THING.

Aint good for nothin...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
If you would have justice in this world, then begin to see that a human being is not a means to some end.  People are not commodities.  When human beings are just to one another government becomes obsolete and real freedom is born; SPIRITUAL ANARCHY.

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2007, 01:26:05 AM »
huh?

c'mon, Pirate, it's not that bad, whatever it is.......
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2007, 08:57:29 AM »
need more info prirate???????????? what ?what? if your game?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline starry-eyed pirate

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« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2007, 12:38:33 PM »
Well...just sayin.

I am still fucked up.  I will never recover what's already been lost.  This seems to be the only place I can even look.  You are the only people I'm even interested in.  No-one else, hardly, gets it.  Why ??  What is goin on ??

I am still in need of some understanding I can't find.  I was in there for 23 months.  When I finally got out I hated myself so much that I tried to destroy myself.  I forced myself into a nervous breakdown and there was no choice.  I had to die and be re-born again somehow.  First $tr8 destroyed me and then I had to destroy myself.  The repercussions continue...  

just sayin...fucked up.

Anyway, I don't know what to say...I'm glad I know what I know, but I feel isolated in my knowledge.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
If you would have justice in this world, then begin to see that a human being is not a means to some end.  People are not commodities.  When human beings are just to one another government becomes obsolete and real freedom is born; SPIRITUAL ANARCHY.

Offline Froderik

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« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2007, 09:17:52 PM »
None of us will ever completely recover what was lost because of them.

People just don't know or decide to remain ignorant.. Some don't know because they've never heard much about it and some just don't care to hear about it or whatever. The mindfuckery wasn't as much a part of their lives as it was part of ours, so their interest (for lack of better word) in it probably isn't as keen as ours is..

I guess that's pretty much why we all talk to each other...
« Last Edit: June 05, 2007, 09:25:46 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2007, 09:24:34 PM »
i know its very hard to deal with...i dont have any answers...i wish i did... i wish for justice and healing for us all...maybe some day it will get easier...but for now try not hurting yourself more...life can be good.....i have good days and bad days but they are mostly good now....still looking for the good answers though...............................
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2007, 01:06:56 AM »
And so the self tortue continues....not bad enough what happend to you in straight. Now you can just beat the shit out of yourself mentally every day for the rest of your life. I'm sure that will help.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline starry-eyed pirate

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« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2007, 12:48:32 PM »
Thanks everyone, for your replies.  I wouldn't quite characterize my behavior as "self-torture", not that I haven't fallen into that from time to time, but it's more like the lingering effects of having been imprisoned and tortured in that cult for 2 years and then bein released directly into the world with the expectation that I would be fine.  I couldn't function in the world.  There was just no way.  I'd been removed from it for too long and I was too confused and lost to be able to concentrate on anything else.  So for nearly a decade afterwards I led the life of a dispossessed wanderer in search of myself.  And like I said I wouldn't want to be ignorant, but the knowledge I've gained through my own personal experience, I've paid heavily for.  I am strong in my understanding but I am also sad and isolated by it.

My folks were here visiting this past weekend, and they tend to aggravate my emotions.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
If you would have justice in this world, then begin to see that a human being is not a means to some end.  People are not commodities.  When human beings are just to one another government becomes obsolete and real freedom is born; SPIRITUAL ANARCHY.

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2007, 01:51:39 PM »
You are absolutely right.  To one extent or another, we are all victims of the abusive bastards that our parents left us to.  And it sucks ASS!!!

I've met many people in my life since str8.  Everyone to one extent or another is a victim of something.  But what makes a victim?  When someone does something to you that is totaly out of your control (i.e. - rape, car accident, str8).  However, are you a victim if it happens again after becoming aware of the fact that you were a victim the first time (i.e. - marital abuse). Some people choose to remain victims and some people do not.  Since you became aware of the fact that you were victimized, I would venture to guess that you would never consciously allow yourself to be put into that same situation again.  You would protect yourself at any cost.  You would be/are aware of your surroundings all the time.  When you went to the reunion, I'm sure that your spidy-senses were tingling so to speak.  Not just because of the location, but because of who you were around and not wanting to allow yourself to get hurt.  This is a good thing and it's progress!

Someone once told me that the meaning in life is to improve yourself.  Many people never get there.  Just think of how far ahead of the game because of how much you know about yourself.  

O, and parents are just parents.  They are just like you and me.  They are no better or worse because they were able to fornicate. It does not give them any right to make you aggravated.  Don't let them do that to you!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2007, 03:03:03 PM »
sometimes it feels like i'm the only one awake and i just want to grab someone and shake them and say dont you know whats happening here...and what are you going to do about it??????...i want to do more myself but feel so damaged and feel it is all i can do not to go crazy and just keep my head above water.....am i damaged or do i just 'feel' that way???? no!!!! real scientifically proven brain trama occured as a result of time in straight...& b/c it happened while our brains were still developing makes it worse....after i got out i was abandoned and all i knew is that was fine b/c i had to get away and i could do a better job running my own life than anyone else had thus far anyway...now i see that i just barely survived haveing been severly hadicapped (ptsd) for adulthood...i think the knowledge is good and it enables us to 'see it coming' so we then can protect ourselves...but all those years not knowing..they were worse......
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline RTP2003

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« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2007, 03:16:58 PM »
Quote from: ""Froderik""
None of us will ever completely recover what was lost because of them.

Damn, dude, that sounds so......hopeless.  I mean, of course, on a certain level, it's true, we spent time there at a critical formative period in our lives, and we can't get the time back, I know that, but what you're saying here, I dunno, but to me it just seems kind of resigned to being to some degree or other, incapacitated, or maybe to being something less than complete.  I like to think that it would be possible to completely heal from the Straight mindfuck, or at least cope with it to where it doesn't cause anger, anxiety, depression, or whatever.    

I do agree that we are not to blame for what happened to us, it was done to us by them.  It was not our fault, it was not right, it was not ethical, moral, or in any way warranted or justified.  It did not save your life, even if you think you did have a drug problem and needed some sort of help.  

"I just" don't like the idea that those fuckers WON, on any level, by inflicting any permanent damage to my psyche.   Maybe that's what really bothers me, admitting that damage inflicted on me when I was a teenager has somehow hindered me since then.  You know, the whole 'road not taken' thing, but in our case, it wasn't by choice, we were SUBJECTED to shit that has been documented as being capable of causing real, measurable changes in those it is used on.  We, as unprepared, ignorant adolescents, admittedly with varying degrees of conflict with parents, teachers, or other authority figures, were subjected to techniques that have caused damage to trained, forewarned military personnel.    We didn't really stand a chance in hell of walking away from that place unaffected.  Maybe if we had gotten out in time, but most of us here were there for at least a few months, some for years.

Quote
People just don't know or decide to remain ignorant.. Some don't know because they've never heard much about it and some just don't care to hear about it or whatever. The mindfuckery wasn't as much a part of their lives as it was part of ours, so their interest (for lack of better word) in it probably isn't as keen as ours is..

Well, yeah, they've got their own shit going on, and a lot of them I'm sure don't believe that things could have been as bad as they were.  Not here, in America.  It's one of those things that if you weren't there you wouldn't understand, completely.  Even if they comprehend on an intellectual level, they lack the experience, the understanding of the day to day existence in that hell-hole.  The smells, the sounds, the heat, the tension, and the anger/fear/guilt/shame whatever negative emotion you can think of, energy that swirled around the group, like a shark, looking for meat and driven to frenzy by the slightest smell of blood trickling from the wounds inflicted earlier in the day.....do you rmember that weird frenzy, that fucked up, almost like a predatory beast, energy that would go through the group at times?  That cold, sinking clamminess that would dawn when certain staff walked into the room, that dark chill that somone was in for it.....and then to see the reflexive, almost convulsive swirl of hostility, circling the room, growing, feeding on the pain and hate and fear and anger of every one of us?  That is what people who weren't there don't get.  We have seen what a group of human beings can be capable of doing to one of their number, and we just saw the tip of the iceberg.....I'm not saying it was comparable to seeing your family gassed at Auschwitz or seeing your best friend's guts splattered across the ground in front of you in some jungle halfway around the world in a war you didn't start and know nothing about, or doing some of the shit a Special Forces vet I know told me he did during the first Gulf War, some of this shit, I don't know if you "come back from". I hope what we went through wasn't irrevocable.
 At any rate, we know what it was like, we were there.  It happened to us


Quote
I guess that's pretty much why we all talk to each other...


Yeah, I think you are right about that.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline Froderik

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« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2007, 04:42:04 PM »
Quote from: ""RTP2003""
Quote from: ""Froderik""
None of us will ever completely recover what was lost because of them.

Damn, dude, that sounds so......hopeless.  I mean, of course, on a certain level, it's true, we spent time there at a critical formative period in our lives, and we can't get the time back, I know that, but what you're saying here, I dunno, but to me it just seems kind of resigned to being to some degree or other, incapacitated, or maybe to being something less than complete.  I like to think that it would be possible to completely heal from the Straight mindfuck, or at least cope with it to where it doesn't cause anger, anxiety, depression, or whatever.    

I do agree that we are not to blame for what happened to us, it was done to us by them.  It was not our fault, it was not right, it was not ethical, moral, or in any way warranted or justified.  It did not save your life, even if you think you did have a drug problem and needed some sort of help.  

"I just" don't like the idea that those fuckers WON, on any level, by inflicting any permanent damage to my psyche.   Maybe that's what really bothers me, admitting that damage inflicted on me when I was a teenager has somehow hindered me since then.  You know, the whole 'road not taken' thing, but in our case, it wasn't by choice, we were SUBJECTED to shit that has been documented as being capable of causing real, measurable changes in those it is used on.  We, as unprepared, ignorant adolescents, admittedly with varying degrees of conflict with parents, teachers, or other authority figures, were subjected to techniques that have caused damage to trained, forewarned military personnel.    We didn't really stand a chance in hell of walking away from that place unaffected.  Maybe if we had gotten out in time, but most of us here were there for at least a few months, some for years.

Not to say that life has to suck from now on or anything, but yeah, you know we can never get those fuckin' years back ever...We could have been out getting laid and going to shows, etc. but Straight robbed us of that every day that we were there..not to mention the abuse. But otoh, yeah I know; water under the bridge.. "just" kick that corpse to the side of the road and walk on.. ::seg::
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline starry-eyed pirate

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« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2007, 11:10:58 PM »
Yeah, it's all pretty tricky.  But what I meant was that I spent about 12 ta 15 years, from the time I was 16 'til I was about 32, out of and on the fringe of the greater society.  I was completely socially unstable. Couldn't work a steady job or live in one place long.  I did best on the move, travellin around, 'til I finally ended up in the floodplain with some other outside cats.  Eventually,  I survived long enough to inherit my gran-mas' house, which was actually her parents house, and that's where I live now.

I'm not sayin life sucks at all.  Just sayin there are some long shadows castin the coldness of a long time without light, upon me sometimes.  I can't really pretend there are things I don't know...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
If you would have justice in this world, then begin to see that a human being is not a means to some end.  People are not commodities.  When human beings are just to one another government becomes obsolete and real freedom is born; SPIRITUAL ANARCHY.

Offline flygirl

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« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2007, 04:06:59 AM »
Quote from: ""RTP2003""
Quote from: ""Froderik""
None of us will ever completely recover what was lost because of them.

Damn, dude, that sounds so......hopeless.  I mean, of course, on a certain level, it's true, we spent time there at a critical formative period in our lives, and we can't get the time back, I know that, but what you're saying here, I dunno, but to me it just seems kind of resigned to being to some degree or other, incapacitated, or maybe to being something less than complete.  I like to think that it would be possible to completely heal from the Straight mindfuck, or at least cope with it to where it doesn't cause anger, anxiety, depression, or whatever.    

I do agree that we are not to blame for what happened to us, it was done to us by them.  It was not our fault, it was not right, it was not ethical, moral, or in any way warranted or justified.  It did not save your life, even if you think you did have a drug problem and needed some sort of help.  

"I just" don't like the idea that those fuckers WON, on any level, by inflicting any permanent damage to my psyche.   Maybe that's what really bothers me, admitting that damage inflicted on me when I was a teenager has somehow hindered me since then.  You know, the whole 'road not taken' thing, but in our case, it wasn't by choice, we were SUBJECTED to shit that has been documented as being capable of causing real, measurable changes in those it is used on.  We, as unprepared, ignorant adolescents, admittedly with varying degrees of conflict with parents, teachers, or other authority figures, were subjected to techniques that have caused damage to trained, forewarned military personnel.    We didn't really stand a chance in hell of walking away from that place unaffected.  Maybe if we had gotten out in time, but most of us here were there for at least a few months, some for years.

Quote
People just don't know or decide to remain ignorant.. Some don't know because they've never heard much about it and some just don't care to hear about it or whatever. The mindfuckery wasn't as much a part of their lives as it was part of ours, so their interest (for lack of better word) in it probably isn't as keen as ours is..

Well, yeah, they've got their own shit going on, and a lot of them I'm sure don't believe that things could have been as bad as they were.  Not here, in America.  It's one of those things that if you weren't there you wouldn't understand, completely.  Even if they comprehend on an intellectual level, they lack the experience, the understanding of the day to day existence in that hell-hole.  The smells, the sounds, the heat, the tension, and the anger/fear/guilt/shame whatever negative emotion you can think of, energy that swirled around the group, like a shark, looking for meat and driven to frenzy by the slightest smell of blood trickling from the wounds inflicted earlier in the day.....do you rmember that weird frenzy, that fucked up, almost like a predatory beast, energy that would go through the group at times?  That cold, sinking clamminess that would dawn when certain staff walked into the room, that dark chill that somone was in for it.....and then to see the reflexive, almost convulsive swirl of hostility, circling the room, growing, feeding on the pain and hate and fear and anger of every one of us?  That is what people who weren't there don't get.  We have seen what a group of human beings can be capable of doing to one of their number, and we just saw the tip of the iceberg.....I'm not saying it was comparable to seeing your family gassed at Auschwitz or seeing your best friend's guts splattered across the ground in front of you in some jungle halfway around the world in a war you didn't start and know nothing about, or doing some of the shit a Special Forces vet I know told me he did during the first Gulf War, some of this shit, I don't know if you "come back from". I hope what we went through wasn't irrevocable.
 At any rate, we know what it was like, we were there.  It happened to us


Quote



I guess that's pretty much why we all talk to each other...

Yeah, I think you are right about that.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2007, 12:51:57 AM by Guest »

Offline RTP2003

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« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2007, 05:39:08 AM »
Thanks, flygirl, I like your posts too.  You have an excellent insight.  Let's start a mutual admiration society sometime.

I understand where you are coming from.  Being a little older, sixteen at the time, and male, I copped out as soon as possible, after having played  them to "con" my way to a higher phase.  I don't think I could have kept it up long enough to seven step, and figured I could just take my chances, run away and join the circus, whatever, anything had to be better than that place.

I did this a couple of times, misbehaving a little bit (it was always a good way to show you had "made a change" if you misbehaved for a week or so after copping out, then cried about your past and played along, I had observed).  I misbehaved extensively, encouraged others to do so, practiced Wicca to the best of mty ability and openly resisted the last few monts I was there, waiting for a court-order hearing.

The thing that gets me is that after $tr8, and having seen what people are capable of doing to each other, the groupthink, the madness of crowds, the hypocracy, the lack of reason, the weird vampiric energy of the whole structure, I'm not sure I want to be a par t of "society".  That's deviant thinking by definition.  I don't wish the poor bastards harm,  I just don't trust them.  I'll interact with them if I have to, and I don't seek some hermitlike isolation, just a few good friends and some drugs---the friends are by far the harder of the two to find.

Don't take this the wrong way, but I was kind of put off by parts of your post, nothing you intended.  I kept thinking how I as a copout/part-time misbehaver did and said shit to people that I am not very proud of in order to "play along".  Kinda made me feel like a railroad worker in Germany in the late 1930s.  Even the resistance I put up and encouraraged in others (a couple of whom have thanked me for it) doesn't make up for that.  Do you feel any remorse for any shit you may have even unitentionally done to get by, to play themn like they were playing you?  I'm not judging you, you did what you had to do, and didn't go on Staff (my personal criteria of where the guilt begins for phasers--sorry, that's just where I'm at with it.  I know, I know, and there are many who have completely made up for their crimes, but there are some who haven't), so I can't say I blame you or have any sort of moral high ground from which to judge you, I'm just curious.


I guess I kind of know what you mean, about a certain crystalization of identity that came from asserting control as you did.  I like to think I got some of that from doing it the way I did.  But for me now, I am so far removed from mainstream, normal social standards that I wouold probably be judged deviant if not insane were I inclined to seek some sort of diagnosis.  Then that trust thing comes in again, and I don't want anything to do with any type of therapy, psychologists, antidepressants, etc.    When I look back there, I see a year of pain, misery, hatred, fear, revulsion, and a feeling sort of like drowning in a sea of thick madness.  I can't say it "cemented who I was inside" , I can say I did it in response to them. But I did survive it. Fuck them, they don't know shit about me or how I should, need to, want to, or feel like living my life.  And I damn sure did not become the clone they wanted me to be, and I don't  fit the "jailsinstitutionsdeath" profile either.  So there. :D
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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