Telephone Service

[Deborah]

Whadda ya think about this?
I was recently forced by Time Warner to sign up for their new digital phone service or select a different provider.
After a week of research, what I learned is that our old phone system is about to become obsolete. The plan is to do away with the copper (analog)telephone lines and move to digital or fiber optics. I'm wondering if the copper lines will continue to run dialup internet service.

As I understand, digital (voip) runs on computer lines and you won't have service during power failure or cable outages. No 911. Based on my experience with cable outages, not an option. Solution, as it was suggested, a cell phone for back up. That's right, in order to ensure that you have tele service in a crisis, one must purchase a cell phone, doubling their monthly expense for phone service. What a deal!!!

Fiber optics, same thing, but it can be equiped with a battery back up. So you'd have phone service for as long as the battery had power.

I'm wondering what one would do in a major disaster like Katrina, or worse? At best, you'd have 8 hours or so of phone service, then nothing until power was restored.

I'm wondering if this decision is across the board. Will emergency service providers, hospitals, and such remain on copper or switch to digital/fios? What are the implications during disaster?  

I recall a number of years ago, before everyone had cell phones, a bad storm blew through knocking out the power. I was the only person in our neighborhood with a phone that worked without electricity, therefore was able to report it; and still have a $5 phone I can plug into a tele jack if/when the power is out.

What was wrong with our old copper line telephone system that work, even when there's a power failure? What is behind the change? What if any, are the benefits. I'm sorry, voice clarity isn't that much better. Makes me uncomfortable that communication will be dependent on electrical power.

And as an aside, what about 'deregulation' being to our benefit, making phone service more competitive, lower rates. What a joke.
My mom still has a analog phone, and is on a party line (bet ya didn't know they still exist), although she's been to only person for years. The cost for her basic monthly service?  $17.80, and that's with tax and fees. Out of curiosity I checked, the cheapest basic phone service you can purchase now is a minimum of $30. Then of course, there is the 20 some dollars of taxes and fees.

[Froderik]

I don't know Deborah.. I often ponder this sort of thing. I have a 'regular' phone too for power outages. (Seems like a no-brainer, but then a lot of ppl these days seem a bit deprived in the common sense dept.)

Oh and the transfer quality (audibility) with most celluar technology leaves a lot to be desired..  

Side note: I guess this topic qualifies as political enough; don't think we need yet another forum..

[Ursus]

I prefer the phones that still work whether or not the power is out.  We are pretty much guaranteed to get at least 2 power outages a year here.  Anything that is the least bit fussy, and I include $10 timers in that boat due to past experience, is hooked up to surge protectors before they access the juice.  I also find the quality of land lines infinitely better than that of cellular phones.  That, I am sure, is dependent on your area.

[Anonymous]

::phone::

[Antigen]

Oh, that's because we're using an.... evolved definition of the term "deregulation".

[Deborah]

Telephone service is served by two incumbent phone companies: Verizon and SBC. Since telephone companies have been deregulated, you have the ability to choose your service from more than 20 competitive telephone companies. In addition, Comcast offers digital phone service to its residential customers.

Competitive phone companies usually utilize an incumbent’s phone lines. When you subscribe to a competitive phone company and are having a service problem, you cannot call the incumbent phone company. By law, they are not allowed to talk to someone who is not their customer. You will need to contact your competitive phone company for assistance.

Interesting. SBC is listed as an incumbent company, but doesn't provide service in my neighborhood. I considered Earthlink, before I knew they were a "competitor company" because unlimited long distance and 5mbps internet was $50 for six months, regularly $67.
The same services with Verizon- $70 for twelve months, regularly $85.
The same services with Time Warner- $99. No discount for existing customers.

Same lines, same service, but $18 less per month if you select Earthlink. But when your Earthlink (competitor) service is down Verizon (incumbent) does the repairs and you'll be a very low priority. By law, they have to restore phone service within 24 (or 48, can't remember) hours, your internet/tv can be down for days. You can request a credit.

The last time that happened with Time Warner, who took over Comcast in my area, I was on the phone an hour and a half and talked to 5 different people before reaching the person who could issue a credit for the 8 days my internet was down. Finally. Well, the credit wasn't on my next bill.
How many people are going to spend another hour and a half to make a second request? How many would have spent an hour and a half the first time?  ::bangin::

So, switching from TW to Verizon. The latter was set to be installed 4 May. The day before I receive an automated message to confirm the date/time. An hour later, a rep calls to say there was an error on the order and they must postpone until 11 May.
The error?
Don't know, can't see that screen? Think it had something to do with your 'bundle'.
Error on my bundle, what exactly?
Silence for several minutes.
Well, there was an error when they issued the request to release your phone number from the current provider. They sent the wrong 'screen' and they couldn't view it. It came to me (error dept) and I've just issued another request. It will take 8 business days.
Can you confirm what services are on my invoice and that my requested due date hasn't change due to your error?
No, that information isn't on my screen.
Okay, I'd like to speak to someone who can confirm that info.
The services were correct, but my bundle discount was entered as $10/mo instead of $15. Wonder what will be on the bill?
Ironically, received a call from a human the same day to confirm installation for the 4th.
Seems these communications companies have a real problem with communications.

And the whole TW fiasco.  :rofl: They took over Comcast, promised no changes to services or price increases. Both false. At the end of my 12 mo contract (originally w/Comcast) the price increased from $65 to $80, as I expected. Six months later, they issue another increase. From $80 to $95. Called to ask why they had done this without so much as notifying me. The rep said I was at the end of another contract period.
Whadda ya gonna do?
Life was less frustrating as a ludite.

[Froderik]

Seems these communications companies have a real problem with communications.

 :rofl:  ::phone:: ::stab::

[Ursus]

The so-called open and free market leads one to believe that one can shop around for the best price.  But the true price can only be learned by experience.  

Some years ago, I switched from Verizon to a competitor (RCN) that claimed their bills were always at least 5% lower.  Although there were frequently petty problems that I could have done without, the real clunker occurred when my downstairs neighbor moved in and opted for Verizon.  

The technician who installed my neighbor's telephone service somehow rendered mine into the dinosaur age.  Despite numerous phone calls to my phone company, which became several times daily by the end of ten days, I was repeatedly informed by them that their technician had stopped by but that I was unavailable (the wires in question were on the outside of the house; nonetheless I had repeatedly taken off work at my own expense to be there).  I never did get my telephone service restored until the day I canceled it.  Funny how that works.

Because I switched phone companies again at that time, having had quite enough of RCN, I was "ineligible" for credit for the time my phone was down (which happened to be at a very critical juncture, with me moving to another town, and with no cell phone at the time).

All these companies suck.  And really, who actually owns the lines is the one who calls the shots.  And that is not a free market.

[Deborah]

Gotta hear this interview between Ira Glass and a co-worker who endured a 10 month battle with the telephone company. Glass calls MCI, the rep refuses to allow the call to be recorded. As you can imagine, the situation was resolved promptly. He then conducts and interview with an exec at MCI. Unbelievable!!

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/Radio_E ... pisode=253
Click on "Full Episode" and scroll to 34:13 minutes.

Act Two. On Hold, No One Can Hear You Scream.
This American Life Senior Producer Julie Snyder found herself in a ten-month battle with her phone company (MCI Worldcom), which had overcharged her $946.36. She spent hours on hold, in a bureaucratic nowhere. No one seemed able to fix her problem, and there was no way she could make the company pay her back for all her lost time and aggravation. Finally, she enlists the aid of the national media — specifically, This American Life host Ira Glass. You can register a complaint about the phone company at the Better Business Bureau or at the FCC. (22 minutes)

[Antigen]

I caught that ep of TAM when it aired. Funny shit!

[BuzzKill]

My worst telecommunications nightmares have all involved Sprint.

First: My son ran up my cell phone bill up into the hundreds. As my contract for service was up, I told them to cancel my service, so I could get the bill paid down. It took several months to get this taken care of - and required numerous phone calls, with long waits on hold, which often resulted in a disconnect. But they did finely get it stopped, and they did finely credit back the charges accrued after the point I said cancel the service; but I am certain this would have been much more difficult had I not kept very detailed notes about every call I made - who I talked to, how many tries to took to get a person on the phone, date and time of day, and what was said.

Second: My daughter wanted a cell phone; and I too felt I could use one. I had the two old phones from before from Sprint, so I called to see if they could be reactivated and what kind of two fer deal they might have. The "deal" sounded reasonable, and the sales man assured me that he could activate the phones. But he couldn't. After many attempts and waits on hold, taking over an hour, I told him never mind. Then the bills began to arrive. I fought with them and fought with them - going through the same hell as always - long wait times and frequent disconnects and persons making promises they didn't keep. When they did finely stop billing me for monthly service, they hit me with the disconnect charge! I filed a complaint with the BBB and that took care of it.

Third: My daughter bought a Sprint phone and contract on Ebay. The add had been very deceptive, and it cost her WAY more than she thought it would from what she understood the add to say. But she paid it. Then they offered her a free trial "upgrade" service for a month. After the trial, she called to cancel it. They kept billing her for it. Again she calls - and again they still charged her. Many many attempts to get it stopped and no luck. We filed another complaint with the BBB - and that got it taken care of.

Fourth: My son wanted a cell phone. I told him make sure he didn't go with Sprint - stay away from Sprint. The sales girl had more influence apparently, b/c he went with Sprint.  They sold him a warranty agreement as well. Told him it covered lost, stolen or damaged phones. The first time he had damaged the phone. It somehow ended up in the cat's water bowl. It took weeks to get it replaced - and then weeks more to get them to activate it - all the while of corse, he was paying for phone service he didn't have.  

Then he lost the new phone. Hoping to expedite the process, instead of calling, he went into the store and talked to the sale girl who talked him into buying a new phone, with a new warranty contract. She didn't tell him this would restate his Sprint service contract. She didn't tell him the new warranty only covered damaged phones.  

Again, he lost his phone. This is when we learned he had no coverage for lost phones - according to the warranty company - although the literature from Sprint reads as it if was a full coverage warranty. So he tried to cancel the service, only to learn this would cost 200.00, b/c they had restarted his service agreement. So, he tried to get the service down graded to vacation time, so he wasn't paying 50.00 a month for service on a phone he no longer had. This they would do, but only for a short amount of time - and after that if he would have his contract began again at 2 years; and it would still only be good for a limited time - and then it would be back to full charges and no phone - unless he bought a new phone - which would also once again re-start his service contract.  

They were rude to the point of seeming openly hostile. After much frustration I told him go ahead and cancel it - I'll help you pay the cancellation fee - lets get this monkey off your back. So, we called to cancel. They put us through to a "customer retainment" department. The lady there was very polite, apologetic, and extremely helpful. She promised a new phone (couldn't understand why there had been any trouble over this to begin with) which was all he had originally wanted - as per his warranty agreement. She gave him a credit to cover the time he had been billed with no service. She made a note that his contract was not to be re-started as a new one. So, we thought things would be OK after all. But the phone never came & The bills kept coming.

 Theres more - but to cut it short - we once again filed a complaint with the BBB, as well as the state attorney general's office,  and that took care of it.

My advice to anyone dealing with phone companies; insurance companies, doctors offices and any office whose service you are paying for - Keep very detailed records about every contact you have with them; and if legal in your state, it is worth while to record the conversations.  All this will make your case far better when you file your complaint with the Attorney General's office, the BBB or the Bar association,  the Insurance commissioner - and so on.

[Deborah]

I caught that ep of TAM when it aired. Funny shit!

Did you roll on the floor laughing/moaning when MCI told the woman they didn't have the technology/capability to set up a three-way call between her, MCI and Verizon. And the part about a silo with only an incoming fax machine, no phone number. It was too hilarious. :rofl:
The total lack of ethics in business is just so repulsive. And unfortunately I see many young people who have no experience dealing with ethical companies assuming this is just normal business practice. Gone is the concept of customer satisfaction.

[Anonymous]

And unfortunately I see many young people who have no experience dealing with *ethical companies assuming this is just normal business practice.

(You mean unethical.)

[Anonymous]

Nevermind; dyslexics untie.

[Deborah]

My advice to anyone dealing with phone companies; insurance companies, doctors offices and any office whose service you are paying for - Keep very detailed records about every contact you have with them; and if legal in your state, it is worth while to record the conversations.  All this will make your case far better when you file your complaint with the Attorney General's office, the BBB or the Bar association,  the Insurance commissioner - and so on.

Good advice, but I've had it happen that when they were out of lies/excuses they'd simply say, "I'm sorry Mr. So-in-so told you that, but that's not our policy. He was wrong, and I apologize." I've never taken my complaints to the BBB, perhaps I'll try that next time. Next time, because it is certain to happen again.

They treat people with such utter disrespect to the point of frustration/ rage and then hang up on them if they raise their voice or become demanding. Sound familiar? Take your fuckin and keep your mouth shut. You have no rights or voice in the matter.

Just like with programs, we need ex telecommunications people to talk about their training procedures. I feel certain they are trained to intentionally deceive the customer. Ya know, those l-o-n-g waits where you know they're reading the manual. If your question isn't listed then they have to call in a superior. I imagine them rewinding and listening to the conversation so the rep can be coached on how to respond. Those sales reps work on commission, they aren't hourly employees. It's not beneath them to outright lie.

My son was scammed too and was going to let it go until I encouraged him to keep fighting. He wanted to add his girlfriend to his plan. Later finds out that he will be billed for the two new lines, as well as the old line and was put into a new contract. None of this previously disclosed. So then he had 3 phones and 3 lines. Only needed 2. The second new phone was to be free, but he had to pay for it upfront and wouldn't receive a credit for months into the contract. Hours later, and hours of minutes he had to pay for, to straighten the mess out, he was able to negotiate a little better deal. Tired of wasting his time, he took a compromise.

Another scam that I've read about... Dish Network pressures people to set up auto debit payments. Dish then double bills, sometimes several times during the course of the contract. They don't issue an immediate credit when they double debit your account, but will gladly apply those payments to extra months of service at the end of your contract.
Given that it could be several years before you cancel service with them, who will remember there was credit on the account. How they get away with debiting your account for services there's no invoice for is beyond me.

I have received paper invoices for TW services, but if I had agreed to allow them to switch my analog phone to digital I would have to pay with automatic credit card/debit payment. No paper statement. Statements are online for 3 or 4 months.
I downgraded services in Dec and therefore had a credit in Jan. No statement was sent that month. I wanted an itemized statement. Took multiple calls to get to the person who could issue one. It was late evening and I think she must've been working from home, I heard a child in the background. As expected, there was an error to their advantage, but it wasn't enough to warrant hours of frustration to get corrected. Those $10-20 errors add up to huge profits. How much of their revenue is from intentional errors?