What is Reality?

[Rugby Punk]

Now that I've stirred up all this shit recently from 17 yrs ago, I wonder how sharp my memories really are. I shut down a lot then to survive and get through that hell. I wonder how much I blanked out that actually happened directly to me that I attribute to happening to someone else there. Like I was an outside observer hovering in the background because I was so disconnected from it all at times. I worked hard at staying below the radar, but how successful was I really?
I played a lot of Risk and Axis & Allies with Johnny Propheet and the other guys to escape that which was an escape from reality itself.
I wish that I'd saved more of my writings from then.

Does anyone else feel like this?

[try another castle]

My memories are spotty, at best. Blownaway has mentioned things to me about people in my own peer group that I don't remember. There are moments of crystal clarity from propheets/workshops, followed by blank spaces  where I have no idea what happened. A lot of times, I can remember seeing one or two members of my peer group going through an exercise, but I don't remember my own experience at all. Especially with things like the I Want To Live. All I remember is being on my back and seeing all of the faces of my peer group staring down at me, peering over cushions. I hated my peer group, and I hated them even more for hovering over me like vultures, pretending to love me, just as I assume I must have done for all of the other people in my group. I don't even know if it really happened that way.

Total and complete dissociation.

I remember that I was alone a lot, doing the loop, not feeling comfortable indicting people in raps. And then blownaway mentioned something to me. He said "Do you ever wonder if how we saw ourselves at CEDU was really how we were, or rather, how people told us we were in raps?" He said he remembers seeing me talked to about those very things I used to describe myself while I was there.

So I wonder.... Were the people in raps observing what I was doing? Or rather, were they bludgeoning me for not getting with the program, being Mr. Popular, and smooshing with people on the floor? I lean towards the latter, despite the fact that I do remember doing the above described things. I probably did, but what's so wrong about that?

All I really know is that I was scared a lot, and fought to repress a huge amount of things. But I looked happy. We all looked happy.

That's what still blows my mind. I go through all of my photos from that time, and I look like I'm really enjoying myself. Yet I was so fucking miserable and anxiety-ridden. But I truly believed I was happy.

mindfuck 101

[Anonymous]

Of course we looked happy. It was the Stepford effect. Inside, you were anxiety ridden and horrified but you learned to question the veracity of your true feelings. Because, at Cedu, your feelings didn't belong to you anymore.

And you better fucking look happy.

I will never ever forget the first night at CEDU.   It truly was like being in another dimension... The CEDU Zone.  And everyone had the same affect. It was eerie and frightening--I never felt so dislocated in my life. They all spewed the same isms and homilies... it wasn't coming from the heart... but from another place... And though there were no bars on the windows, I never felt more trapped or afraid in my life.

And the part about what is you and what is the "story of you."  That is why I split. After my first few propheets, I knew I would have to become the "story of me" to survive and I could not stomach it.  But I still took some of the story anyway--took awhile to shake it off.



Shanlea

[Anonymous]

I was depressed pretty much the whole time I was there.  I actually used to pray at night that I would wake up and the bad dream would be over.

I feel that everything was set up to be a lose-lose situation with manipulation waiting for you around every corner.

Act cheerful, laugh, etc...be told to "slow down"

If you were feeling good...you were a "look good"

If you were depressed/sick/etc...you weren't "taking care of your feelings"

If you had ANYTHING negative to say...no matter how minor or insignificant...BANS

[Anonymous]

Yep.  It would be natural to have negative feelings, so for staff to suppress the slightest skepticism is unhealthy and unnatural.  That is what made me realize that there would be no truth-telling here. And if you can't tell the truth, then how can you "heal" from whatever got you there in the first place?  So you never really effectively dealt with anything truthfully (even when you told the truth--if that makes any sense.)  

The staff never got any of my "issues" right. They script the story--and some never even happened to me--and that's it.  Like the virgin who was now the slut, the chronic pisser who is now the bulimic, or the drug-free who is now the drug addict. And of course, the shades of grey in between are almost worse.   Some stories were outright lies, but you also come to believe that if you ever experimented  you were an addict.  That was my favorite--wasting time trying to "heal" from an issue you never had!  Like being a slut because you had sex with your high school sweetheart.  Or an addict for smoking weed 6 months ago.  And  because there is a grain of experience, you dig through the  whole damn sandbox.  

But, they had you by the balls. You learned from Day One to glaze.

--S

[Anonymous]

Why did CEDU go to these great lengths to develop negative issues for kids?

Did some kids need treatment for specific problems, and was CEDU equipped to engage those issues?

[Rugby Punk]

Why did CEDU go to these great lengths to develop negative issues for kids?

Did some kids need treatment for specific problems, and was CEDU equipped to engage those issues?

I'm not trying to knock you down or anything, but where are you coming from with this? Are you a 'treatment professional'?

If you read some of the other threads in this sub-forum you'll probably answer your own questions anyway. But if we must...Short answer is they needed to keep the kids hooked in to the program and the parents money still flowing in. Hence, kids with little to no problems who had no business being there (not that anybody did) were made to feel that they should work thru these 'major issues'. The staff, for the most part, had no formal or professional training (Other than what knowledge was passed down to them thru the Cult hierarchy) to be doing what they did.

[Rugby Punk]

The staff, for the most part, had no formal or professional training (Other than what knowledge was passed down to them thru the Cult hierarchy) to be doing what they did.

To clarify, this was back before the mid to late 90's when apparently they started to hire actual therapists onto the staff to look more official to the outside world. I've read some of the posts of those professional staff therapists that have visited here and they were freaked out too by the shit they witnessed and heard about there that was done to the students.

[psy]

Now that I've stirred up all this shit recently from 17 yrs ago, I wonder how sharp my memories really are. I shut down a lot then to survive and get through that hell. I wonder how much I blanked out that actually happened directly to me that I attribute to happening to someone else there. Like I was an outside observer hovering in the background because I was so disconnected from it all at times. I worked hard at staying below the radar, but how successful was I really?
I played a lot of Risk and Axis & Allies with Johnny Propheet and the other guys to escape that which was an escape from reality itself.
I wish that I'd saved more of my writings from then.

Does anyone else feel like this?

What i've done is to write down everything i could remember, and then compare that with what other ppl have remembered.  Yeah it's real, unfortunately.

Help jogging memory?  Propheet music.  That'll do it...  Although I warn you, at least for me it was... more than a little unsettling.  "Tell it all brother"...  ick ick ick ick ick...  

With me.. I kept a journal.. I still haven't had the strength to read most of it.. but i'll have to some day...  I'm afraid by reading, somehow i'll be taken back somehow, and i really don't want to go back there...

And the part about what is you and what is the "story of you." That is why I split. After my first few propheets, I knew I would have to become the "story of me" to survive and I could not stomach it. But I still took some of the story anyway--took awhile to shake it off.

That really resonates with me..  I don't think i'll ever shake it off becuase I believed it.

RE: truth telling

They didn't want you to tell the truth because they wanted to redefine what truth was, among other things.

RE: healing from an issue you never had

That was like a gunshot to the head for me...  It made me scared of who i "was".. made me cling to my new program given identity.  I was scared to death i would die without the program.  One more reason why it's so hard to remembere who i was.. it was ingrained in me that i was poisonous...  

RE: Why did CEDU go to such lengths to develop these issues?

haha..  i thought that would be obvious... It's so you will tell your parents on the phone "I need to be here"..  money.. pure and simple.  They can't say "there's nothing wrong with your kid" .. they would lose cash.  They get a nice testimony out of it.  It's advertising, nothing more.

[Antigen]

RE: Why did CEDU go to such lengths to develop these issues?

haha.. i thought that would be obvious... It's so you will tell your parents on the phone "I need to be here".. money.. pure and simple. They can't say "there's nothing wrong with your kid" .. they would lose cash. They get a nice testimony out of it. It's advertising, nothing more.

I think it runs much deeper than just a profit motive. The hands on staff, as noted, are not well paid at all and generally they keep them under extreme stress and surveillance similar to clients (I'm surprised they use the term patient cause Straight had to switch that out for liability reasons in the very early `80's)

No, I think the reason why they have to create issues is just the same as why we all had to make shit up in raps all the time; to prove their super hero powers of Awareness. Once  they make an accusation they have to defend it with their lives for all the same reasons we all had to 'dig deep' and convince ourselves of our own fictitious pasts and all that.

Staff is just another phase of the program. Pity the fools  and also hold out hope that they'll come around one day cause they often do.

[psy]

to prove their super hero powers of Awareness. Once  they make an accusation they have to defend it with their lives for all the same reasons we all had to 'dig deep' and convince ourselves of our own fictitious pasts and all that.

Oh i hated that then, and I still hate it now...  Whenever somebody tells me "this is how you are, and I know it since... I've been there / i can see your heart / god told me / etc..."  i get very very hostile.  Far more probably than most people.  What's worse is when i just got out of program, i thought I had that ability... and much embarrassment (and other things) resulted from it.  It's a feeling of omnipotence, like program gave you some special ability to see into everybody else and tell them who they are inside.  In reality you just come off as an asshole.  With weaker people, who are uncertain or under stress anyway, who knows... they might start to believe. I know what it's like to not be sure, and doubt myself...  you have to confess to work the program, if you want to leave, sooner or later, you start to believe...  In an environment of people professing "they saved my life".. whether or not they meant it is irrelevant, they served a function: they re-enforced the perceived divine nature of program (program is always right, program says you are a lie, program says you will die without program...)  That illusion needs to be maintained for the brainwashing to work.  This is the reason for bans, etc.. to control communication, making sure you are the only person who has doubts...

Ginger is right... rarely does program have just one reason for doing any given thing.