Pacific Quest

[Truth Searcher]

Any info about this program (Hawaii) other than whats found on the programs website?

Thanks in advance.

[Oz girl]

Director Mike Mckinneys CV says he was involved with Coral Reef Academy owned by a better way

http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t= ... ef+academy

most other staff are ex Aspen

[Karass]

Mike's bio on pacificquest.org says he co-founded this program after working at SUWS/Idaho, Oakley school and Coral Reef (Western Samoa).

Most of the other staff seem to have once worked at SUWS/Idaho, with a couple references to Catherine Freer, Oakley and Academy at Swift River thrown in there.

The only clinical psychologist I see mentioned is a guy who lives in Salt Lake City, but "consults" and provides testing services to the program.

What kind of program is this exactly? They seem to advertise themselves as a pure "base camp" type of wilderness program, but their website makes it sound like a residential program built around a working farm.

At $430/day, the cost is more in line with a wilderness program than a TBS.

[Anonymous]

I went to Pacific Quest in 2005, so I know a bit about it. It's like a wilderness program in that you are in the wilderness - there are no buildings and there's no electricity, but we do have a kitchen and a camp and such. We don't move around like some wilderness camps in Utah and such do. It's a lot like residential treatment programs and wilderness camps in its goals and intentions: provide youth with stability, a sense of self, responsibility, motivation and direction in their lives. But unlike many programs Pacific Quest doesn't force anyone to do anything and so it, in my opinion, provides a much more supportive and effective atmosphere for change.

[Anonymous]

And by the way, Mike McKinney doesn't work with the kids at Pacific Quest. I only saw him twice - and talked to him for a total of five minutes while I was there.

And the farm.. is more like a really big garden, at least while I was there. I'm sure it's bigger now but we really only grew enough food to make salad for ourselves. A lot of the work we did outside (about, probably, four hours a day) was clearing brush or gathering firewood, not necessarily things related to Farming but just living outside in general. We cooked all our food, too. That's basically what the program was structured around - working as a team to get meals and chores done effectively and with good communication. And then talking afterwards to figure out what didn't or did work well. Of course it's a lot, lot more than that, and many people's issues come out when we do talk about what came up in the efforts to "make time". For example, my general lack of integrity and laziness / selfishness.

I dunno. It was a while ago and it's hard to give you a good idea of what it was like.. but to put it simply, I carry my experience at Pacific Quest with me constantly. I found something there in myself that no one else gave me. No one forced me to do what I did.. I've seen comments about brainwashing on here. But I know I wasn't brainwashed. If I wanted to sit at my tent all day every day, the staff would have let me do that. If I hadn't wanted to talk about why I was sitting at my tent instead of interacting and participating, then they would have let me. I know because a kid in my group did just that. Instead of being in the Family he sat at his tent for 2 weeks. Solid. Just sitting there. And there was none of this rediculous, if you don't do this or that, you have to eat your beans raw, you have to hike ten miles without water, you have to carry an elephant on your back across a desert, kind of thing. Our staff was totally realistic and helpful. Non-pitying and definitely honest, but kind and loving at the same time.

I don't know how the PQ (what we call it) setup compares to many wilderness programs but we had a lot of what I consider typical activities: giving feedback, talking, that kind of thing. A main part is that one person is Person of the Day and has the only watch. A student, I mean. And they are in charge of leading and directing all activities (watering plants, getting chores done on time, cooking, etc.). And there is circle every night around the campfire which either has a prompt to talk about (one I thought up was something about family and what yours means to you) or is open for conversation, and a talking stick.

I loved it. It was hard. I practically beat my head on rocks sometimes trying to figure out what everyone was trying to tell me but wanted me to figure out by myself. I don't know if I figured out what they wanted to figure out. It's not that kind of program. But I'm happy with the person I am today and use the skills I learned at Pacific Quest of listening to my heart and giving to others, every single second of every single day of my life. For that I thank them endlessly and with great love.

If you have any other questions, feel free to ask me. And I ask that if anyone has criticisms or doesn't believe me, that they have an open mind and if possible, only present constructive criticism. Not all programs are bad, I don't think. I know people have had bad experiences at Residential Treatment and at Wilderness. But that doesn't necessarily mean that my experience was due to brainwashing that I didn't want.

Thanks! Blessings.

[Oz girl]

What did the therapy consist of?

Did parents have to write an impact letter of any kid (why you are there etc)
Was it six weeks like wilderness or more like a boarding school?

If it was like a boarding school what did the academic part consist of?

Were you able to phone home often?

was an staff able to read your mail or did it come in a sealed envelope?

Did you have access to newspapers or media connecting you with the outside world?

[Anonymous]

7/10

[nimdA]

Hey Oz.. 1 question at a time babe..

Also sounds alot like Eckerds in some regards.

[Anonymous]

What did the therapy consist of?

Did parents have to write an impact letter of any kid (why you are there etc)
Was it six weeks like wilderness or more like a boarding school?

If it was like a boarding school what did the academic part consist of?

Were you able to phone home often?

was an staff able to read your mail or did it come in a sealed envelope?

Did you have access to newspapers or media connecting you with the outside world?


============
The therapy.. it was different for each of us. It was more just like talking and figuring shit out than actual Therapy. We had a psychologist named Joyce who'd come in two or three times a week and have Group with us, but it varied a lot every time - sometimes we'd talk about just one person, or really whatever was going on at the time. We had a lot of control over what we talked about. Not SO much control of course so that we didn't talk about popular culture and stuff like that during group. We talked a lot about our pasts and our reactions to things, and about our emotions regarding different things. We also did a Solo (or mini-Vision Quest) where we thought about where we wanted to be vs. where we were in our lives, individually (everyones Solo intents and experiences were very very different), which you can read more about on the website. We also looked a lot at our roles in the group and just talked.

My parents didn't write me an impact letter because I chose to be at Pacific Quest. I don't know if some of the other parents did - some were sent by court order (two, I think) and some were sent for other reasons, but I never asked. My mom did tell me her reasons for why she thought it was a good idea for me to go, but I understood why I was there, and didn't have to go.

It was more like wilderness than a boarding school, definitely. Everyone varied on how long they were there for. I was there for six weeks, and a girl who left after me was there for nine (over the summer). And one kid, the kid who was for the longest there, was there for three months. A girl who needed to do some math work over the summer got a tutor while she was there ,though, who came up to the camp and tutored her while the rest of us worked in the garden during the afternoons.

I never phoned home. Which I think was appropriate. If I had phoned home.. well, I think a lot of my old habits and old ways of thinking about myself come up a lot when I interact with my family and my home, and I know for a lot of us at PQ home wasn't necessarily a safe place for us or a place that cultivated positive change and introspection. But we didn't have to be there if we really didn't want to - if someone ran away in the night, or made the place unsafe for the rest of us in terms of not being participatory or being subversive, they would have got "kicked out" or taken home. I had the option of leaving during the first two weeks if I wanted to; my mom said I could have. And I didn't.

Staff read my mail, I think. I didn't mind.

And we didn't have media.

But I might ask, what are your intentions for asking all these questions? Do they really matter, in my case? Clearly I had a positive experience.. and in my opinion, these things aren't necessary for a good environment where loving people can help one another. Certainly I appreciated being able to write letters to my mom and get loving letters from my grandma and mom, but I could understand the position of some of my group members for whom phone calls could have been real setbacks and unnecessary hurdles to overcome. I understand the desire to know more about the program but in my opinion asking about the staff or how my life has changed today might be more pertinent questions.

I hope I've provided some clarity,
blessings

[Anonymous]

Can you explain referring to the staff and students as "FAMILY?"
Since the longest enrollment seemed to be 3 months---using the term "family" just seems a bit strange to me; since "family" is usually a long-term, lasting relationship.

[Anonymous]

Yes. I can explain. Here's one definition that doesn't pertain to the traditional "nuclear" family of mother and father and children, or even long-term lasting relationships:    (dictionary.com) : a group of people who are generally not blood relations but who share common attitudes, interests, or goals and, frequently, live together.

The idea in being in the family was that you were making a commitment to our goals and attitudes. Being committed to supporting each other, loving each other, communicating effectively, and making a safe environment for looking at difficult things and making tough changes were our intentions and goals in our family. We also tried to respect each other and accept each other no matter how different or conflicting we might find each other, much as a family might be. For example, I don't ostracize my sister for months at a time like some girls in middle school or even high school do, just because she made a rude comment about me. I forgive and move on, because we are family. And that's the kind of attitude we tried to make for ourselves in the family at PQ.
I understand it seeming a little bit strange. From my point of view, a lot of times I don't consider - or didn't in the past - anyone but my immediate family as a "family" to me. But we worked together often and interacted much in teh way that I think a family does, as a group anyway, and as such we tried to make our family more functional and a better group to be a part of in our work together. So I do think it is an appropriate term.

[Anonymous]

By the way, I hear Aspen really works (horrible) wonders for the programs it buys. PQ isn't owned by Aspen, though they've tried to buy them out before, but they're holding strong..

blessings.

[Anonymous]

Lets hope they get shut down for racketeering and extorsion. :wink:

[Oz girl]

But I might ask, what are your intentions for asking all these questions? Do they really matter, in my case? Clearly I had a positive experience.. and in my opinion, these things aren't necessary for a good environment where loving people can help one another. Certainly I appreciated being able to write letters to my mom and get loving letters from my grandma and mom, but I could understand the position of some of my group members for whom phone calls could have been real setbacks and unnecessary hurdles to overcome. I understand the desire to know more about the program but in my opinion asking about the staff or how my life has changed today might be more pertinent questions.

I hope I've provided some clarity,
blessings

I am sorry I put so many questions to you at once. i did not mean for it to sound like some sort of interrogation. My interest in whether or not you had uncensored access to the outside world it because i think it is vital that a kid can speak privately with their parent even if only by mail. Otherwise there is a danger that even in the most kind and helpful program abuse can go unreported. A mechanism to prevent that like private letters home is vital.
I would also agree that a lack of media for 6 weeks is not a big deal. But it is if it is for 6 months because it creates a sense of estrangement with the outside world. This is why i asked.

Did most kids you went through with go straight home? or did they go on to other TB schools and RTCs?

[Anonymous]

That's understandable - I've heard of reports of abuse and weird things like that. But at PQ I'm sure that if any abuse had taken place, Joyce would have been on that like nobody's business. But I can understand how in a program with less integrity that could be a problem -- especially if the staff thinks the kids are just being dramatic. I don't think letters were censored, though, as much as just read for content.

Most of the kids in my group went straight home; one went to a TB school, and he was pretty unhappy about it. His parents decided without his - or any of our staff's - knowledge, and sprung it on him right after he got back from his solo, so it was a big blow to him. Everyone else went straight home.