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Offline try another castle

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How many?
« on: March 11, 2007, 09:38:53 PM »
Does anyone have any rough estimate of how many TBS facilities/boot camps/wilderness camps are operating? (and I do mean rough)

heal-online's figures don't state this, but they do state that about 50,000 kids are sent to these places a year, and that there have been close to 300 related deaths in the last ten years.
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Offline Deborah

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« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2007, 11:59:08 PM »
Both sound high to me. 50K would be 500 programs with 100 participants. But, who knows. No, I don't mean that TheWho knows, but who really knows? Are you interested in only private-pay facilities or state-run as well?
As for the deaths. That sounds high too. I keep a file in Excel and there's about 140 since 1980. There may be others. I know some don't make the news. I found one last week from like, 1990.
Can't even guess at the number of injuries, physical/sexual attacks, long-term medical conditions, emotional distress (PTSD, etc), post-program suicide, etc,etc.
You might get an idea by compiling a list from ST and NATSAP. If they're licensed there will be a maximum enrollment figure, but, that would be a tedius task.
If we had several people, each person could take a state (or two) and research the programs in that state.
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Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2007, 12:07:17 AM »
test
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Offline nimdA

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« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2007, 12:08:49 AM »
Might be that Heal is including both public and private sector deaths in their tally.
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Offline try another castle

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« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2007, 02:11:43 AM »
heal online has a state by state list that I can refer to, but it is in no way comprehensive. I will make a tally, though.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2007, 02:35:55 AM »
There are a total of 420 private programs operating currently with a total of 3,000 students incarcerated. I got these figures by sticking my hand up my ass. This is the same scientific method that programs use.
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Offline try another castle

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« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2007, 04:30:45 AM »
OK, anyone have anything more reliable?  :P
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Offline try another castle

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« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2007, 05:41:18 AM »
Ok, based on my tally of heal-online's state by state list and isaccorp's list of the facilities abroad, I get around 260. If it was 50,000, there would be around 200 students on average per facility. I know that at one point we were indeed pushing that 200 mark at RMA, but I have no idea about the other places.

Maybe I should just put "thousands" and leave it at that?
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Offline Oz girl

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« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2007, 06:09:09 AM »
Isnt part of the drama in finding any stats that so many new programmes open and shut so often? or that so many places change their names?
i would make the tally private facilities only. Most western countries sadly have juvenile facilities where kids who have been found guily of serious or numerous illegal acts are sent by a judge after a trial or proper hearing. Jail is not pretty anywhere.
 But this industry is unique in that young people are incarcerated by their parents. Also the private places are unique because they are not quite schools, not quite jails and not quite psychiatric hospitals but some odd hybrid.
I can see that even here is is complex because some private places take court ordered kids as well as parentally ordered ones.
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n case you\'re worried about what\'s going to become of the younger generation, it\'s going to grow up and start worrying about the younger generation.-Roger Allen

Offline try another castle

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« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2007, 06:19:21 AM »
Well, I wasn't going to count juvies, but as for private vs. not, the boot camp where martin lee anderson was murdered was state run, wasn't it?

The line is kind of fine, IMO.

This is like trying to count a hill of ants.
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2007, 07:37:26 AM »
Well yes, but the state was Florida. In that case the line is fuzzy as hell. They've got a Seed graduate for governor and DFAF (fka Straight, Inc) running their dept of law enforcement. That boot camp was set up by a DFAF board member, Guy Tunnel who was then promoted into the SA's office once the dust started to settle.

While there's still a pretense of a juvenile justice system in this country, it's getting hard to tell the diff between that and a Straght, Inc. intake 'interview' aka kangaroo court.
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Offline Oz girl

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« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2007, 07:46:34 AM »
I would put a public boot camp in the public/ jail category. But yes it does seem to be a terribly fine line
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Offline nimdA

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« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2007, 08:25:00 AM »
Ain't no god damned fine line for the kids that are dead.
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am the metal pig.

Offline try another castle

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« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2007, 08:43:37 AM »
Quote from: ""Antigen's Ghost""
Well yes, but the state was Florida. In that case the line is fuzzy as hell. They've got a Seed graduate for governor and DFAF (fka Straight, Inc) running their dept of law enforcement. That boot camp was set up by a DFAF board member, Guy Tunnel who was then promoted into the SA's office once the dust started to settle.

While there's still a pretense of a juvenile justice system in this country, it's getting hard to tell the diff between that and a Straght, Inc. intake 'interview' aka kangaroo court.


Holy crap in a basket, I didn't know Jeb was a Seed programmie! Do tell!
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #14 on: March 12, 2007, 01:13:47 PM »
No, not Jeb thought he and Camilla have held seats on the BOA of DFAF forever and Jeb endorsed SAFE by name in a written statement for an Anchor Foundation fund raiser as late as 2000 or so. The new governor, Charlie Crist is who I'm talking about. His dad was on the Seed BOD for the couple of years when the St. Pete branch was open ad ole' Charlie doesn't turn up in year book photos or notes during a chunk of that time. I've also talked w/ someone who saw him in group, but they don't want to go public. I suppose I wouldn't either if I were still living in Jeb's Super Seedling Florida.
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