TheWho: Spin off discussion, Unconditional Love

[TheWho]

So its all about absolutes with you, all one way or all the other, every parent is the same, all schools are the same , okay.....

So because I don?t believe in unconditional love then all program parents don?t either?.Hmmmm .  Why would I predict this conclusion from you DJ?

I may be unique who knows?  ?.. I don?t take my daughters love for granted and expect her to love me unconditionally because I am her father, never have never will.  If you don?t nurture it and feed it then it could die? you may expect your kids (if you have any) to love you just because you brought them into the world but I just don?t believe this.  I feel sorry for you if you take that bond for granted.

[Troll Control]

Who said:

I think the bond between a parent and child is built upon a foundation started from infancy and is solidified over time from years of trust and formed from the natural dependency, nurturing and love that occurs and that the home is a safe place to grow, spread your wings, make mistakes, fall and start over. The home should never be a place to be embarrassed or feel ashamed it should be a place to practice life without being judged.

How do you reconcile this with embarrassing and blaming your kid for your failures as a parent then having her shipped off against her will?

Not only did you judge her, you judged her so harshly that you concluded she must be sent away to be raised by others instead of her family.  I guess she's not worthy of your love, respect and guidance?

You're telling a lot about yourself today, Who.  You make carefully crafted passages that would make the reader believe that you behave in the manner you describe above.  In fact, you practice the exact opposite of what you preach.  This makes you a "typical" program parent for whom all that matters is "ME, ME, ME!!!"[/quote]

[Troll Control]

So because I don?t believe in unconditional love then all program parents don?t either?.Hmmmm .  Why would I predict this conclusion from you DJ?

I may be unique who knows?  ?.. I don?t take my daughters love for granted and expect her to love me unconditionally because I am her father, never have never will.  If you don?t nurture it and feed it then it could die? you may expect your kids (if you have any) to love you just because you brought them into the world but I just don?t believe this.  I feel sorry for you if you take that bond for granted.

Let's examine this further, shall we?

Who's kid:  "I love you, daddy."

Who:  "I would love you, too, if only you... (fill in the blank)"

You're a sick MF'er, Whooter.  Most "normal" parents would lay down their life without thought or hesitation for their kid.  You'd have to think about it, evaluate, decide if you love her at the moment (depending on her behavior), and then act.  

You really are sicker than I had estimated previously.  It makes sense if people view you as a sociopath:  people (like your kid) are objects not deserving of innate love or respect unless they please you.  Fascinating.

I don't take anyone else's love for granted, but I do love my own familiy unconditionally and would without hesitation sacrifice my own life for any one of theirs.  Don't feel sorry for me, Whooter, my priorities are intact.  You should feel sorry for your kid who isn't worthy of your love unless she earns it. :cry:

[Troll Control]

Maybe I can make this much simpler before we get into some more nonsense.

Who, exactly what conditions does your daughter need to meet in order for you to love her?

[TheWho]

Who said:

I think the bond between a parent and child is built upon a foundation started from infancy and is solidified over time from years of trust and formed from the natural dependency, nurturing and love that occurs and that the home is a safe place to grow, spread your wings, make mistakes, fall and start over. The home should never be a place to be embarrassed or feel ashamed it should be a place to practice life without being judged.

How do you reconcile this with embarrassing and blaming your kid for your failures as a parent then having her shipped off against her will?

Not only did you judge her, you judged her so harshly that you concluded she must be sent away to be raised by others instead of her family.  I guess she's not worthy of your love, respect and guidance?

You're telling a lot about yourself today, Who.  You make carefully crafted passages that would make the reader believe that you behave in the manner you describe above.  In fact, you practice the exact opposite of what you preach.  This makes you a "typical" program parent for whom all that matters is "ME, ME, ME!!!"

Whoa DJ?.. you get so pissed when someone proves you wrong !!  This really gets personal for you?.calling people failed parent?embarrassing, blaming, judgment, shipping kids off?why cant you accept that your way isn?t the only way?  No need to ridicule others because they have a different point of view?. I think you reveled a lot today also?.

[Troll Control]

I'm not pissed.  I'm just taking what you said and asking questions about it.  If you don't like what you've said, just say you mispoke and go back and correct it.

What am I wrong about?  That you shipped your kid off?  Or that you don't always love her?  Because I got both statements by quoting you.

[TheWho]

Maybe I can make this much simpler before we get into some more nonsense.

Who, exactly what conditions does your daughter need to meet in order for you to love her?

Well okay...tell me...You go along happily believing you don?t need to put any effort forth because your kids will always love you unconditionally and you don?t plan to intervene or help them, continue to stay uninvolved, if they get off track ?how does this make you a good parent?   Hmmmm..... see there are other points of view to consider....

[TheWho]

I'm not pissed.  I'm just taking what you said and asking questions about it.  If you don't like what you've said, just say you mispoke and go back and correct it.

What am I wrong about?  That you shipped your kid off?  Or that you don't always love her?  Because I got both statements by quoting you.

Ha,Ha,  about calling George Millers office...oh we forgot...the bill is dead.  oh no!! ..its all the republicans fault.........now who has selective memory?

Only one of us brought the facts to the table as usual.

Here take another look:

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h109-1738


http://tinyurl.com/3ah7le

[Troll Control]

Maybe I can make this much simpler before we get into some more nonsense.

Who, exactly what conditions does your daughter need to meet in order for you to love her?

Well okay...tell me...You go along happily believing you don?t need to put any effort forth because your kids will always love you unconditionally and you don?t plan to intervene or help them, continue to saty uninvolved, if they get off track ?how does this make you a good parent?   Hmmmm..... see there are other points of view to consider....

No, I never said anything like this.  Let me quote myself for you while I wait for an answer to the question:

Who, exactly what conditions does your daughter need to meet in order for you to love her?

What I said was this:

I don't take anyone else's love for granted, but I do love my own familiy unconditionally and would without hesitation sacrifice my own life for any one of theirs. Don't feel sorry for me, Whooter, my priorities are intact. You should feel sorry for your kid who isn't worthy of your love unless she earns it.

Why would you say that I said or did something else, when it's in plain English right here?  "I don't take anyone's love for granted..."

Reading comprehension or memory problems again today, Whooter?

Now, you made the statement that your love for your daughter is conditional.  Under what conditions would you love her?  Not love her?

Please, I'm very interested in your response to this question.  I want to understand what your daughter needs to do for you so that you'll love her.

[Troll Control]

I'm not pissed.  I'm just taking what you said and asking questions about it.  If you don't like what you've said, just say you mispoke and go back and correct it.

What am I wrong about?  That you shipped your kid off?  Or that you don't always love her?  Because I got both statements by quoting you.

Ha,Ha,  about calling George Millers office...oh we forgot...the bill is dead.  oh no!! ..its all the republicans fault.........now who has selective memory?

Only one of us brought the facts to the table as usual.

Here take another look:

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h109-1738


http://tinyurl.com/3ah7le

I saw all this.  It just says "what is" not "how it got there."

Anyway, I'm waiting for a much more important explanation.  I know you like to keep it trivial, but we realy hit on something today and I want to explore it.

What does your daughter have to do for you in order for you to love her?

[TheWho]

So if you believe your kids love you unconditionally then you dont have to put forth any effort and you probably dont....I believe it needs to be worked on every day, its just the way I am.  If you feel that is wrong, okay.  But I feel sorry for you and your kids if you think that way...Love between a parent and child needs to be continuously nurtured, not assumed or taken for granted.. I am surprised at your position

[Troll Control]

So if you believe your kids love you unconditionally then you dont have to put forth any effort and you probably dont....I believe it needs to be worked on every day, its just the way I am.  If you feel that is wrong, okay.  But I feel sorry for you and your kids if you think that way...Love between a parent and child needs to be continuously nurtured, not assumed or taken for granted.. I am surprised at your position

Again, I never said this.  What I said, in fact, was the opposite.  Let me break it down for you Barney-style:

I said:

I don't take anyone else's love for granted, but I do love my own familiy unconditionally and would without hesitation sacrifice my own life for any one of theirs.

So, again, what you said about me was another red herring.

However, what I asked you was quoted directly from you.  you said you do not believe in unconditional love.

I asked you a simple question that you've now dodged three times by misquoting and mischaracterizing what I said, even though I requoted it twice now.

So, what does your daughter need to do for you in order that you will love her?

I am surprised at your position

Yeah, that's because it's not my position.  It's what you just made up to avoid answering the question above.

[TheWho]

Okay, answer me this:

How long can you ignore your kids and not help them in times when they need you most and still expect them to love you unconditionally?

[psy]

note that when i said "conditional" i meant "unending" as in "no matter what".  others might view "conditional" as meaning "only under certain conditions".  (the two are related...  but one implies compassion, the other, control.)

What i meant, is that it is possible for a child to hate his/her parent(s).

Hey who:  So have you asked your daughter questions about her program recently?  She still not talking to you?

[Troll Control]

Okay, answer me this:

How long can you ignore your kids and not help them in times when they need you most and still expect them to love you unconditionally?

Me?  I don't ignore my kids and I help them with anything they might need, always, without question.  But I'm not the focus here.  You made a statement that I feel was your most important one to date and I'd like you to answer the natural follow-up:

What conditions does your daughter need to meet in order for you to love her?