Bush's Former Drug Czar Kicks Off NATSAP Convention

[TheWho]

Okay...I'll send them all some NATSAP truth. In theory, the government is supposed to have a check and balance system. Abusive programs can't oversee abusive programs. End of story.

Zen, it is the way it works!!  I haven?t followed your posts enough to know if you are from the US or not so don?t take this personally.  Here in the US if you are setting up the rules and regulations for a parade, in down town powdock for ?Black History Month? the KKK  (anti black (non white), antiJewish, anti catholic etc. organization)  has a right to be there and voice their opinion and also to sign off on the details if they have enough support in the region.  It?s the way it is designed from day one.  You might want to move to Venezuela if you want to have the type of freedom you speak of.
I am sure you feel, deep down inside, they are all abusive programs and abusive people.  But they feel they are helping kids and feel you are abusive for trying to deny the kids help because you had one bad experience and want to shut the whole industry down.  Does that make you right?  The schools right?  No!!  Everyone needs to be involved.  It?s the way we do it here?.. ?let the people speak, all the people.?.

[ZenAgent]

Okay...I'll send them all some NATSAP truth. In theory, the government is supposed to have a check and balance system. Abusive programs can't oversee abusive programs. End of story.

Zen, it is the way it works!!  I haven?t followed your posts enough to know if you are from the US or not so don?t take this personally.  Here in the US if you are setting up the rules and regulations for a parade, in down town powdock for ?Black History Month? the KKK  (anti black (non white), antiJewish, anti catholic etc. organization)  has a right to be there and voice their opinion and also to sign off on the details if they have enough support in the region.  It?s the way it is designed from day one.  You might want to move to Venezuela if you want to have the type of freedom you speak of.
I am sure you feel, deep down inside, they are all abusive programs and abusive people.  But they feel they are helping kids and feel you are abusive for trying to deny the kids help because you had one bad experience and want to shut the whole industry down.  Does that make you right?  The schools right?  No!!  Everyone needs to be involved.  It?s the way we do it here?.. ?let the people speak, all the people.?.

NATSAP doesn't speak for anyone but their own corrupt industry.  Read up on it.  One bad experience?  One bad experience would not have produced Fornits, ISAC, CAFETY, A START, HEAL, etc.
122 deaths is not "one bad experience".  If I'm "fixated" on PV, so be it, I know the place better than I do Tranquility Bay.  I'm not trying to shut the industry down, just PV.  Then, I'll study another known abusive facility and kick their doors down.  One at a time.

[Anonymous]

Zen. The pledge, remember?

We don't let child abusers write child abuse laws.

[TheWho]

NATSAP doesn't speak for anyone but their own corrupt industry. Read up on it. One bad experience? One bad experience would not have produced Fornits, ISAC, CAFETY, A START, HEAL, etc.
122 deaths is not "one bad experience". If I'm "fixated" on PV, so be it, I know the place better than I do Tranquility Bay. I'm not trying to shut the industry down, just PV. Then, I'll study another known abusive facility and kick their doors down. One at a time.

Of course they don?t!!  you say you are fixated on PV,  would you speak up for ASR because they don?t abuse kids the way you clam PV does?  Of course not, because you are focused on PV, that?s what you care about now.  Does that make you plight bad or useless, of course not.  NATSAP is focused on NATSAP as they should be and they will push for the legislature they think is right and in the best interest of the kids, just like you are.
Would it be fair if they silenced you because they felt you were wrong?

[TheWho]

Zen. The pledge, remember?

.

Ya know, Lactose, I read that pledge and when people added....?except when it's funny.....it really pissed me off!!  I mean, how do I take that?  ?. "You think I'm funny? Funny how? Funny like a clown, like I'm here to amuse you?"

[psy]

Okay...I'll send them all some NATSAP truth. In theory, the government is supposed to have a check and balance system. Abusive programs can't oversee abusive programs. End of story.

Zen, it is the way it works!!  I haven?t followed your posts enough to know if you are from the US or not so don?t take this personally.  Here in the US if you are setting up the rules and regulations for a parade, in down town powdock for ?Black History Month? the KKK  (anti black (non white), antiJewish, anti catholic etc. organization)  has a right to be there and voice their opinion and also to sign off on the details if they have enough support in the region.  It?s the way it is designed from day one.  You might want to move to Venezuela if you want to have the type of freedom you speak of.
I am sure you feel, deep down inside, they are all abusive programs and abusive people.  But they feel they are helping kids and feel you are abusive for trying to deny the kids help because you had one bad experience and want to shut the whole industry down.  Does that make you right?  The schools right?  No!!  Everyone needs to be involved.  It?s the way we do it here?.. ?let the people speak, all the people.?.

NATSAP doesn't speak for anyone but their own corrupt industry.  Read up on it.  One bad experience?  One bad experience would not have produced Fornits, ISAC, CAFETY, A START, HEAL, etc.
122 deaths is not "one bad experience".  If I'm "fixated" on PV, so be it, I know the place better than I do Tranquility Bay.  I'm not trying to shut the industry down, just PV.  Then, I'll study another known abusive facility and kick their doors down.  One at a time.

Ya know.  It would be one thing if NATSAP actually pretended to care, but they don't even do that.  When i attempted to report Benchmark's lack of licensure they told me "well we don't investigate that".  When i told them they were abusive, they didn't care either.  When I told them They didn't follow NATSAP's own "principles of good practice" i was told that they were on an honor system.  Schools don't join NATSAP unless they need protection and PR.  I mean, if I ran an honest, caring, loving, Emotional Growth school, I would stay the hell away from an organization protecting the likes of PV, Benchmark, and countless others.

Besides.  Natsap's board is stuffed with current and ex program directors, including the likes of Bucci Boy and Michael Allsgood (of Cascade infamy).    

You want them to compromise and work together on this?  They would only reach an agreement once NATSAP and it's schools had found a suitable loophole to exploit.

How hypocritical.  "let the people speak, all the people."...  What voice do the children have.... and even when they get out... few of them want to vocalize, much less protest, what happened to them...  It's not just a few anomalies, if they were anomalous, the stories of survivors from supposed "good school" to "good school" would be random accounts of abuse, complete with pitchforks and goat sacrafice.  Instead, we hear account after account of eerily similar testimony, decade after decade...  Usually when different people are making things up, the stories do not match...

The "good schools" of yesterday are now defunct, their staff scattered to the winds to start their own schools and staff the "good programs" of today... of which I would bet the majority will end up being the defunct programs of tomorrow.  Lawsuits solve little more than to bleed the owner dry of il-gotten gains...  The henchmen, with little motivation to do otherwise, move on, more than welcomed by the next school craving the sort of "experience" that cannot be taught.  I would like to see them prosecuted criminally... but with all the evidence either in the hands of the program....  Sure there is human evidence, but how easy is it to assassinate the charachter of a troublemaker, one who's own parents, would no doubt accuse of manipulation...  To some degree it is the dilemma of the boy who cried, wolf.  On the other hand, most of the time, the parents never bothered to check if there actually was one...  trusting the comforing words of career con-artists, whispering soothing lies: promises of the perfect child if only they will stop interfering by asking so many questions
.
So mister Who:

So why don't the parent's just look at the evidence?  Why don't you call your daughter?  You don't want to know...  It comforts you: believing you were right..  You can't face the possibility that you sent your kid to be abused, and ignored her cries for help.  That's right, "Who", you did the right thing... your daughter is the perfect image of you, she loves you unconditionally.  She thanks you for sending her there...

You cannot face this simple truth:  There are certain things that can completely sever the ties of love between parent and child.  There is no such thing as "unconditional".  Fool yourself all you wish, but if I were you, I would at least ask those questions you are afraid to... on the off chance that your daughter might grant you the forgiveness you do not deserve.

[psy]

Zen. The pledge, remember?

.

Ya know, Lactose, I read that pledge and when people added....?except when it's funny.....it really pissed me off!!  I mean, how do I take that?  ?. "You think I'm funny? Funny how? Funny like a clown, like I'm here to amuse you?"

I admit you have to have a very sick sense of humor.

[ZenAgent]

Zen. The pledge, remember?

We don't let child abusers write child abuse laws.

Indeed.  I'm aware of some good treatment facilities for adolescents.  You never see them on this board or any other, and they don't consider themselves part of the "troubled teen industry".  Regulations won't shut them down, they're already above the bar.

Let's say you're part of the peanut butter industry.  You're lax, your facility isn't clean, and a batch of E.Coli-laden peanut butter goes out and sickens hundreds and a few people die shitting and screaming.  The Feds come in, tighten your ass up and tell you to meet regulations.  You're too fucking cheap to do it, dodge inspections, and another batch of poison peanut butter goes out.  The Feds come back and regulate you out of existence  No one bemoans the loss of your killer bread spread.

The same with this "troubled teen industry".  They comply or die.  If ASR is not abusive or slipshod, if their staff is qualified, they have nothing to fear, they'll continue on.  All this crying about being "regulated out of existence" doesn't mean shit to me.  This is Darwinism for the "industry".  Meet or surpass regulations, or be shut down.

[TheWho]

PSY Wrote:

So why don't the parent's just look at the evidence? Why don't you call your daughter? You don't want to know... It comforts you: believing you were right.. You can't face the possibility that you sent your kid to be abused, and ignored her cries for help. That's right, "Who", you did the right thing... your daughter is the perfect image of you, she loves you unconditionally. She thanks you for sending her there...

You cannot face this simple truth: There are certain things that can completely sever the ties of love between parent and child. There is no such thing as "unconditional". Fool yourself all you wish, but if I were you, I would at least ask those questions you are afraid to, and beg for the forgiveness that you do not deserve.

That is pretty intense and it is a good point,psy.  Parents should keep a thumb on the pulse of their child and listen to how they are doing.  If they sound distressed when they call you should ask to have another conference with them to insure that they are okay.  I remember on a particular occasion, after my daughter ran away , that she sounded distressed and we scheduled another call back about an hour later and we talked it thru and spoke for about 45 minutes.  She was struggling with a balance between her school work and what they expected to do during her off time which didn?t allow for her studies.  She wasn?t use to working that hard.  My daughter doesn?t thank me for sending her there but she understands that it was good for her (she wouldn?t want to do it over again, though).
I am not a big believer in ?unconditional love?.  I think the bond between a parent and child is built upon a foundation started from infancy and is solidified over time from years of trust and formed from the natural dependency, nurturing and love that occurs and that the home is a safe place to grow, spread your wings, make mistakes, fall and start over.  The home should never be a place to be embarrassed or feel ashamed it should be a place to practice life without being judged.  If this process is interrupted or threatened the parent is the one who needs to step in and right its course.

If I asked my daughter tomorrow where she would rather be if there was trouble in her life I know she would chose home, because that is where her family is and that is where she feels safe.  This is the place she comes to when she needs to sort out answers or scream at someone or ask for advice or feel safe.
Unconditional love, no it isn?t?but we continue to work on it every day and the working at it is what love is and it keeps us together.

[TheWho]

Zen. The pledge, remember?

We don't let child abusers write child abuse laws.

Indeed.  I'm aware of some good treatment facilities for adolescents.  You never see them on this board or any other, and they don't consider themselves part of the "troubled teen industry".  Regulations won't shut them down, they're already above the bar.

Let's say you're part of the peanut butter industry.  You're lax, your facility isn't clean, and a batch of E.Coli-laden peanut butter goes out and sickens hundreds and a few people die shitting and screaming.  The Feds come in, tighten your ass up and tell you to meet regulations.  You're too fucking cheap to do it, dodge inspections, and another batch of poison peanut butter goes out.  The Feds come back and regulate you out of existence  No one bemoans the loss of your killer bread spread.

The same with this "troubled teen industry".  They comply or die.  If ASR is not abusive or slipshod, if their staff is qualified, they have nothing to fear, they'll continue on.  All this crying about being "regulated out of existence" doesn't mean shit to me.  This is Darwinism for the "industry".  Meet or surpass regulations, or be shut down.

Yes, but what if you are one of the good guys (above the bar), helping kids out left and right for decades, everyone calls you ?Skippy? and life is good.  Then along comes some regulation created by a guy named ?Jif? that you were never invited to vote on or give your input to that requires all your employees to be specialists in ?Virginia group peanuts? .  Well being in the peanut industry for decades you speak out and say all your employees have been trained in "Valencia group peanuts", which are more complex (more kennels in a larger shell) and require a higher degree of knowledge and are considered safer than Virginias peanuts, so we are superior to the requirement.
Ah, but the reply is, you don?t meet the letter of the law that we at ?Jif? created, we didn?t know that, wish you had spoken up earlier when we wrote the bill, looks like you will have to close down and the public will have to settle for a lesser quality peanut butter.
Is this how America should be run?

[Anonymous]

That makes about as much sense as alligator tentacles convalescing with glowing Wahhabi spleen fish.

[ZenAgent]

Go eat a Peter Pan and jelly sandwich, who.

[nimdA]

So much for you pledges.

[ZenAgent]

Go eat a Peter Pan and jelly sandwich, who.

Standards?  Look, remind the "troubled teen industry" - Do no harm.  

Don't kill kids.

Don't abuse kids.

Obviously the industry can't police itself.  There won't be any inferior programs, they won't be allowed to exist.  The regulations won't be impossible.  Regulations would create better programs, don't you think?  Imagine, being required to have qualified staff.  Someone seems to be suggesting that without abuse the "troubled teen industry" would be ineffective.  If ASR can't meet industry-wide regulations and survive, good riddance to bad rubbish.  The industry's days are numbered.

[Anonymous]

Hey! I was funny, dammit!

Well, as funny as one can get on a forum about sadistic child abuse.