Spring Creek lodge / Whispering Pines Academy

[psy]

Yeah, the program Morava she referred to as "oddly" being accused of being abusive.

This lady is a piece of work IMO.  Another parent who thinks they are experts in raising other people's kids.  I saw them on Bill O'Reilly.  Of course, he had not done his homework.  He should have had Maia Szalvitz as a guest instead.

Let's just hope the same thing doesn't happen with another program parent turned book-writer named Sue Scheff.  That would really put me over the top.

Bitch can hardly even spell, much less write a book.  She has been "writing" that thing since I can remember.... it's a "I am writing a book" tactic to make her look educated, IMHO.

But seriously... What else did you expect from O'Reilly, or any journalist nowadays.  blah...  Turn off your TV for a year.  Just do it.  You'll be surprised at just how much your perception of the world changes without "information" being constantly jammed down your throat.

[Anonymous]

Yeah, the program Morava she referred to as "oddly" being accused of being abusive.

This lady is a piece of work IMO.  Another parent who thinks they are experts in raising other people's kids.  I saw them on Bill O'Reilly.  Of course, he had not done his homework.  He should have had Maia Szalvitz as a guest instead.

Let's just hope the same thing doesn't happen with another program parent turned book-writer named Sue Scheff.  That would really put me over the top.

Bitch can hardly even spell, much less write a book.  She has been "writing" that thing since I can remember.... it's a "I am writing a book" tactic to make her look educated, IMHO.

But seriously... What else did you expect from O'Reilly, or any journalist nowadays.  blah...  Turn off your TV for a year.  Just do it.  You'll be surprised at just how much your perception of the world changes without "information" being constantly jammed down your throat.

OK, so journalists are bad, TVs are bad, and all prgrams are evil. Do we have this straight? And, since she agrees with you--in spite of so much evidence to the contrary--Maia Szalivitz is good. Hmmm.

Have you read the book Come Back? Do you advocate turning off your mind as well as your TV? The book is well written and insightful.

It's OK to be respectful to people whose ideas are different than your own. It can even make the world a better place. Certainly, it would improve the Internet.

[Anonymous]

Some people see this book as nothing but propaganda for a dangerous unregulated industry and for that reason alone, would not even consider reading it, much less purchasing it to benefit the authors.

Out of control teens from dysfunctional middle-to-upper-class homes is what this industry thrives on.

It's appalling this mother apparently chooses to exploit the CURRENT lack of safeguards to protect children and parents from exploitation and fraud in the name of private "treatment".  No regulations means UNSAFE regardless of whether program owners, ed cons, parents, referral agents and any others "get" that or not.

Thank God this situation is about to change and all these entreprenuers and opportunists cashing in on children and families will soon be looking for another way to make a buck or at least have to have a lot more money to invest to ensure they are in compliance with tougher laws and regulations governing their private for-profit "businesses".

[Anonymous]

Just for you people that don't know Mike Linderman, you shouldn't judge him unless you know him. What happened with the girl that committed suicide at SCLA had nothing to with his fault. He is also not a pervert, but a caring man who wants to help people pull themselves out of shit they shouldn't have become involved in in the first place. So unless you know him and what he does personally, keep your mouths shut. He started to help with the Whispering Pines program, but chose to take time off to write a set of books for Harper Collins Publishing. Unless you are 100% positive about the things you are saying, then don't say them at all.

[Anonymous]

MIKE LINDERMAN IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THAT GIRL KILLING HERSELF. HE IS A GODDAMN PERVERT WHO SHOULD HAVE HIS SKULL SMASHED IN WITH A HAMMER.

[Anonymous]

No, he really isn't.  He was responsible for her therapy not watching her every move. There are many staff members that are responsible for watching the students at all times, but not Mike. She obviously didn't want to be here and that was her choice. Believe it or not many people that work up at that school are haunted by the very memory of that girl hanging herself. Many of them question themselves, but using the bathroom is kind of a personal matter and a little privacy was given to her and she took advantage of that. Would it have made a difference if she had committed suicide when she wasn't in that school? Who would you blame then?  And I bet you wouldn't have even heard about it then. Just clear your mind and think for a second.  Thousands of kids have gone through that program and one commits suicide, but what about all the others that have turned  their life around?  What about Mia Fontaine? Mike is not a pervert at all. I'm sorry to hear that you think a person caring about the people he works with is a bad thing. Being  nice caring person is completely different from being a pervert. Maybe if you spent five minutes with Mike you would change your mind. In fact, I know you would. So don't judge people unless you know the whole story and you know them personally. Not all rumors are true.

[hanzomon4]

SCL from most people's account is an abusive hell hole. No matter the good intentions the school and it's staff are responsible for that young lady's death. Wanting to do good is no excuse for wrong actions and programmies truly need to get that through their head.

You say people that work at the school are haunted, then why do they continue the abuse or keep quiet about it? They should mourn everyday of their life and the lives of their children for what they caused or allowed to happen.

[Anonymous]

It's times like this whether I wonder if they really do put something in the Kool-Aid over in WWASPS land. Do you have even the remotest fucking clue what forum this is?

Do you think we don't know what happens in WWASPS programs, particularly the little hellhole known as Spring Creek Lodge? About the seminars, the level systems, the brutality and the humiliation? The little thing known as an isolation box? Oh, and the fact that you keep them from having this little thing known as a normal life, maybe? There's someone on this forum who goes by Spring Creek Survivor who won't even let his parents see their grandchildren because of what was done to him by your precious shithead Mike Linderman and his fellow child torturers. Of course Mike got his rocks off doing it. Why the hell else would he work there?

And suicide prevention? That's a goddamn joke. He fucking drove her to it! After what Mike and the rest of them did to her, suicide was a good choice. She took the quick way out. The rest of them- especially the permanently mentally scarred ones who you so laughably describe as "turned around"- don't have it so easy.

You don't have a Goddamn clue what the hell you're doing to these kids, and you don't even fucking care. When the last of these hellholes is erased from this planet, it will be cause for celebration.

Get the fuck out.

[Oz girl]

OK, so journalists are bad, TVs are bad, and all prgrams are evil. Do we have this straight? And, since she agrees with you--in spite of so much evidence to the contrary--Maia Szalivitz is good. Hmmm.

Have you read the book Come Back? Do you advocate turning off your mind as well as your TV? The book is well written and insightful.

It's OK to be respectful to people whose ideas are different than your own. It can even make the world a better place. Certainly, it would improve the Internet.

I read come back and it did not make either place sound all bad. However there were many red flags. The Mother was a comedy stereotype. She was totally clueless. Both places had an unholy obsession with making the adolescents regress into some child like state.
When Mia came out she had trouble fitting in with other kids and mainly hung with her parent and their friends (now that is so healthy)
There were many issues glossed over. Why would a hard bitten police Chief from a very recently former communist country be so horrified with the oppression of the kids that he wanted the parents investigated by the FBI for sending them? Afterall the bloke would not be some kind of western liberal.
Why would a parent not be disturbed by a group therapy session which involved kids rolling around crying on the floor? (Mummy staffed one remember)
What kind of parenting would have a jewish kid running away with a truckload of nazis?

[Covergaard]

In Denmark we have an interesting case in court. A wife had cancer for year and she have been through a lot. New tumour had to be treated and she had spoken to her husband about ending it because she would not take another round at the hospital so one morning when the husband went to work, she took a lot of pills and pulled a plastic bag down over her head. Done deal.

What the trial is about is to determine whether the husband should have stepped in and reported her speaking to the hospital. Was he responsible or not?

That is a grey area.

But once a person enters a facility, we have clear laws. The facility takes over the responsibility of the person. If a person is committed either with or against his or her will, they have to take into consideration, that suicide is a valid option, this person could choose.

Some 4 months ago I had a relative committed to a hospital because this person had stopped taking vital medicine with the goal of dying within 2 weeks. I took her to the person to doctor, who asked whether the person would be evaluated in the local mental hospital. Fortunately the person agreed. Also very fortunately the person agreed to be committed once the evaluation showed that an inpatient treatment was needed.

At the minute this person stepped over the doorstep on the intake, strategies about how to avoid suiside was planned. No long wires. Only bath or showers with a relative in the room. Medication only given by staff. Monitored kitchen (patients in Denmark makes coffee and prepare dinner delivered from a kitchen.)

All these precautions are taken because the hospital is responsible for all patients in their facility regardless how they try to take their own lives.

SCL had the responsibility from the very minute this poor girl entered the facility. Someone was not doing their job and had to be procecuted or at least losing their job.

It goes for TB as well. It was no accident. It was a suicide. Some of the former victims have seen the suicide note. (It was stated on Myspace.)

[nimdA]

No.. its worst than suicide. It's negligent homicide.

[Anonymous]

SCL from most people's account is an abusive hell hole. No matter the good intentions the school and it's staff are responsible for that young lady's death. Wanting to do good is no excuse for wrong actions and programmies truly need to get that through their head.

You say people that work at the school are haunted, then why do they continue the abuse or keep quiet about it? They should mourn everyday of their life and the lives of their children for what they caused or allowed to happen.

Could you define "most people?" I mean, for the sake of argument. Do you mean a 50%+  portion of the billions our planet supports? Or do you mean the 12.05 people who think this forum has a scrap of validity?

And how about defining "hell-hole"? Is this a scientific or medical term? Is one hell hole deeper than another, and therefore more hellish than another? Is the term meant to conjure horrific images of kids forced to do their schoolwork rather than do drugs, or would a closer vision be something like a semi trailer full of dead mothers and children who were so desperate they took a ride across the US border in an oven? I wonder if folks like that would agree with you that a hundred acres of pristine forest, six hours of school and 2500 calories a day constitutes hell? Are you being just a tad dramatic here?

And if imaginary abuse occurs, but everyone keeps quiet about it, does it make a sound? Or if abuse is imaginary, will talking about it louder and more stridently make it true?

Just asking . . .

[Covergaard]

Regarding responsibility off the girl committing suicide, it does not matter whether the place is a hell-hole or not.

What matters is that they took her in. The minute they did that she should regard her choosing to take her own life as a option, they should watch her for until she leaves the facility. Levels does not matter. Until she leaves the facility, they should guard her.

But we are talking of locking people up here. In a country, which should fight for democracy and human rights, locking people up should take a conviction in a court of law.

She was not convicted. Most of the children at SCL is not. Of course they should regard it as a hell-hole. They are not there for anything else than being locked up for no reason. Such children should have access to an independent lawyer.

I am glad that the last Danish soldier left Iraq this week. I am totally against terrorism and voilence of any kid. The people behind 9/11 should be hanged from the highest tree after receiving a conviction for their crimes. But we joined the other forces because we wanted to implement democracy in the Middle East. What we see here is not democracy, so we will choose our battlegrounds carefully in the future.

[Anonymous]

I can just imagine this twit sticking its fingers in its ears and going "La la la, there is no isolation box, la la la, they're treated with respect, la la la..."

You know what, bitch? I'm going to lock you up in a small room in the middle of 100 acres of pristine forest for, oh hell, a year. And rape you daily, and give you second-grader's schoolbooks to read, and make you study them for six hours a day, as well as 2500 calories of lard.

And then I'm going to get on the Internet and claim anything you might say about it is "imaginary abuse".

How'll that work out for ya?

[Anonymous]

Regarding responsibility off the girl committing suicide, it does not matter whether the place is a hell-hole or not.

What matters is that they took her in. The minute they did that she should regard her choosing to take her own life as a option, they should watch her for until she leaves the facility. Levels does not matter. Until she leaves the facility, they should guard her.

But we are talking of locking people up here. In a country, which should fight for democracy and human rights, locking people up should take a conviction in a court of law.

She was not convicted. Most of the children at SCL is not. Of course they should regard it as a hell-hole. They are not there for anything else than being locked up for no reason. Such children should have access to an independent lawyer.

I am glad that the last Danish soldier left Iraq this week. I am totally against terrorism and voilence of any kid. The people behind 9/11 should be hanged from the highest tree after receiving a conviction for their crimes. But we joined the other forces because we wanted to implement democracy in the Middle East. What we see here is not democracy, so we will choose our battlegrounds carefully in the future.

My suggestion? Read the files. They're public information. They show, if nothing else, you have no sense of what happens in this country or its schools in general, or during this incident in particular.

Forgive the contradiction, but we are not, in fact, talking about locking people up; the school has no locks. Nor are we talking about corporal punishment; the school expressly forbids it. We are not, apparently, talking about anything that you know about.

And for the sake of accuracy, we are not talking about democracy, either. This is a republic--a representative form of government.