Author Topic: religious commentators & the industry  (Read 3712 times)

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Offline Oz girl

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« on: February 10, 2007, 08:06:06 PM »
given that alot of americans practice some kind of mainstream Christianity, has anyone thought of contacting the major churches about this issue.
Granted there are many Christian programmes out there and some branches of religion have really brought into this spare the rod bullshit but it is hard to know whether or not programmes are actually supported by the heirachy of their denominations or if the major religions are aware of the secular programes.
There seem to be many Christian media commentators in the US that have a reasonable level of power. Has anyone contacted organisations like Focus on the Family? It could be an avenue to try.
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n case you\'re worried about what\'s going to become of the younger generation, it\'s going to grow up and start worrying about the younger generation.-Roger Allen

Offline psy

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religious commentators & the industry
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2007, 09:26:55 PM »
Not a bad idea.  Preachers have already condemned est as "both a cult and occult"...  Just show em what programs are based on...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
Sue Scheff Truth - Blog on Sue Scheff
"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)

Offline BuzzKill

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« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2007, 10:43:31 PM »
Funny you should mention that. . .
I recently had yet another fruitless exchange of email with Focus staff persons. I have decided they are totally in the republicans pockets; and unless the child is not yet born - they are not going to speak out about abusing them for profit.  Most disappointing.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2007, 12:00:53 AM »
Quote from: ""BuzzKill""
I recently had yet another fruitless exchange of email with Focus staff persons.


Wait, you mean you actually got them to say something?

What did they say?
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Offline OverLordd

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« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2007, 11:17:34 AM »
Yes, inform us, im interested in the exhange, what was said, how was it done? were you mean? was she mean? information man!
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our walking down a hallway, you turn left, you turn right. BRICK WALL!

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Offline BuzzKill

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« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2007, 02:15:47 PM »
Sure, I'll be happy to tell ya about it. A couple of requests first, to my friends on Fornits:

Please don't write these people with comments such as: 'fuk U' ; or with pronouncements to honk if you "what ever" for Jesus - this would be counter productive, and hurtful, not only to any shred of hope they might someday take an interest, but to me personally.

Despite the fact I got the brush off - I still hold out hope, that some day, someone higher up in the organization, will learn about this issue, and take an interest in speaking out about it. Keep in mind, I have never gotten to a level higher than the flunkies who answer the phone or email.

I have considered writing Ryan Dobson - he has his own organization now. Maybe one of you young adult believers on the board might want to do this?

I first contacted Focus on the Family about 4 years ago. I thought for sure James Dobson would be very concerned, b/c I recalled him doing several programs about the dangers of LGAT back in the 80's.  He was very outspoken about the destructive nature of them; and concerned that corporations were pressuring (even forcing) their employees to attend these LGAT seminars. He spoke about the values they promote being contrary to Christian values; the brain washing aspects of this kind of training; the danger of mental and emotional break down.   Anyway, b/c of this, I felt he would take a special interest in WWASP; and then could be educated about the dangers of the industry as a whole.

I first called them and eventually was put in touch with a lady in their education department. I suppose this would be the people watching over the various issues related to public education. She seemed interested, and so I sent her a large package of information detailing the various aspects of this industry. I never heard back. After some months I called again, and she claimed to have never received the package - so I sent another. And nothing.  

So I wrote to them, and eventually heard back from a man, who suggested I send yet another package. I declined the offer, as it is expensive to mail, and time consuming to put together, and as far as I could tell, being sent directly to the round file; But did send him a lot of  links to information on the internet. He thanked me, and said that it would take time to do the needed research, before they could say anything publicly, and left it at that. Occasionally, as related events occurred, I would send links to news paper articles and so on, but I never got any feed back. So one day I asked if he was even reading them - and if so, to please respond; and if I didn't hear back, I would assume he wasn't reading the email I sent, and I would cease to send any more. I never heard back - and so I gave that up.

Then this recent arrest of Randal Hinton came to pass. Now, Royal George Academy in sitting at Focus on the Family's back door. Focus on the Family is right up the road from Denver; and so apparently, is Canon City.  And so, I wrote them again, thinking maybe as this news was for them a local event, they might take an interest.  Following will be a copy / past of the letters, as sent; with a few redactions for privacy.


To whom it may concern;

Over the past 4 years, I have tried several times to encourage your interest and concern, for the problem of abusive and negligent Privately owned and operated programs for teens. Twice I sent a large package of related information; and several times exchanged email with your personnel on this subject. Focus has never yet felt any need to speak out on this issue; much to my great disappointment.

Now you have the biggest and most notoriously abusive privately owned program, right there in Colorado city.  Royal Gorge Academy is affiliated with WWASPS; and the director recently arrested for assaulting students has been associated with this group for years. He is in fact, perhaps the most well documented abuser in their association. He admitted on film to abusing one young man; and I can tell you from my own conversations with the victim, that the abuse was extremely severe; and from which he never fully recovered; and never will. He died last June from heart failure, believed to be the result of medication he was on to help with the mental illness he developed while in this man's care.

[sentence redacted due to concerns for a person's privacy]

While there are these cases of extreme and heinous abuse; it needs to be understood that the normal day to day treatment and routine is designed to create an environment that will serve to facilitate the brainwashing of the students; and to achieve this, high stress levels and emotional breakdown are required. The students are kept stressed with sleep depravation and hunger; uncertain with constantly changing and arbitrary rules; and fearful with the common use of brutal treatment. Then it all comes to a head by forced attendance at several Large Group Awareness Training Seminars - directly associated, and exactly like, those Dr. James Dobson once spoke out against to eloquently - Life Spring.

And now - this is all happening right in your own back yard.

Will you Now do some real research and speak out against this horrible evil??

You might want to begin with a book that explains the history of this treatment modality; and explains the harm that results; as well as explains the lack of accountability or real evidence it ever does any lasting good; along with suggestions about how to find real help for a troubled teen; Maia Szalavitz's, "Help at Any Cost: How the troubled teen industry cons parents and hurts kids"

I will finish by saying again, how disappointed I have been with Focus for the apparent lack of concern. I fear it is due to the vast amounts of money these people, who own and operate these programs, pour into Republican coffers. I hope not. I hope you are not that easily induced to turn your heads from human suffering brought about by monstrous greed.

http://www.koaa.com/news/view.asp?ID=6271

www.ISACcorp.org

www.WWASPSinfo.net

www.WWASPinfo.com

www.teenhelpindustry.info

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 2:02 PM
Subject: Response to Your Contact




 

Greetings from Focus on the Family, and thank you for your recent e-mail.  I consider it a privilege to correspond with you on behalf of our ministry.

 

It was good of you to take the time to express your views on privately owned and operated teen centers.  Your concern for the safety and the needs of young people who are receiving treatment for various issues through residential care facilities is commendable, and, from what you wrote, it?s obvious that you have thought a great deal about this topic.  While we are not in a position to speak to the specific situations you outlined, we do want you to know we appreciate the vote of confidence implied in your request that our outreach become involved in these matters in some way.  

 

In response, if you were familiar with our modus operandi, it would be quite apparent that we do not have the staff nor the resources to carry on the type of investigation you are suggesting.  In addition, we felt it would be helpful to point out that our limitations in this area have nothing to do with any ?behind the scenes? motive regarding funding that certain programs may provide to political groups.  Indeed, as an organization that regularly comes alongside individuals in abusive situations with the love and hope of Christ, we found your unfounded remark out of line, and we hope you realize that nothing could be further from the truth.  Nonetheless, since we are not an investigatory agency with the capabilities of fully examining any allegations that have been brought against private institutions,  we recommend that you contact the proper civil authorities about the circumstances you described as they are in a much better position to provide the assistance you are seeking.

 

Thanks again for writing.  We are sorry we couldn?t be more encouraging, but we trust you can understand our reasoning.  God?s grace and peace to you.

 

Angela
Focus on the Family



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Dear Angela -

About this: "In response, if you were familiar with our modus operandi, it would be quite apparent that we do not have the staff nor the resources to carry on the type of investigation you are suggesting."

I mentioned it ONLY because the last gentleman I was in contact with at Focus on the Family, told me that FOF could not speak out about such an issue, with out first doing a great deal of research - and that was why there might seem to be a delay in responding to this issue.

And also, I would expect that there is some sort of research staff to compile facts and figures and so on, concerning the various social and political issues, FOF does regularly deal with. And so - I do not think it can be assumed that your to strapped for resources to do research.

I am very familiar with FOF. I was a daily listener for many, many years - and only quit listening when the station that carried the morning broadcast went off the air. [sentence redacted for privacy] I have always been a supporter of FOF, and have always found Dr James Dobson to be reasonable, intelligent, articulate and compassionate - in short - I am, and have long been, a huge fan.

My children were raised on a steady diet of FoF materials; and I often bought family and friends copies of  Dr. Dobson's books and other FOF materials - such as the much loved "Adventures in Odyssey" series.

About this: " we felt it would be helpful to point out that our limitations in this area have nothing to do with any ?behind the scenes? motive regarding funding that certain programs may provide to political groups. Indeed, as an organization that regularly comes alongside individuals in abusive situations with the love and hope of Christ, we found your unfounded remark out of line, and we hope you realize that nothing could be further from the truth."

I do not realize any such thing. I am in fact deeply puzzled at the apparent lack of concern your silence on this issue indicates. It troubles me, because I know FOF does indeed often speak out on issues involving abusive situations; and because I remember well, Dr. Dobson's concerns with LGAT being forced on corporate employees; I find it strange and disturbing there is no concern expressed for the parents and children being unwittingly exposed to this psychologically dangerous; and spiritually devastating "behavior modification"; never mind the day to day physical and psychological torment, inflected on the hapless and helpless teens.  How can you ignore this? Why would you?  

Because FOF has always spoken out on political and social issues - I expected there would be an interest in this one, once it was brought to your attention. It is a very serious issue; devastating families all across our nation - and very often Christian families. Do you realize how cult like this "teen help" phenomenon is? Do you realize how they breakdown ones since of self, and attempt to erase all Christian values and principals?  "There is no right or wrong - only what works" is one of the bed rock principals of these programs. Christian moms and dads, and sons and daughters, in the hundreds and thousands, are abandoning their Christian beliefs for this narcissitic and pathological philosophy; as a result of their uninformed participation in these programs. And again, this is not even taking into consideration the extreme brutality and gross negligence so commonly inflicted upon the kids held captive in these places.

This seems to me Exactly the kind of outrage FOF has always spoken out against - educated people about - fought to end, through appropreate legislation - but you just keep making excuses about why you can't speak out about This Issue. How can this be?  There is only that one unsettling explanation that comes to mind.

I Hope it isn't true; but I do not feel the remark to be unfounded or out of line. It is in fact, very often the case when it comes to the public officials who are supposed to be overseeing the well-being of the children held in these places;
Which is why this is so sadly laughable: "Nonetheless, since we are not an investigatory agency with the capabilities of fully examining any allegations that have been brought against private institutions,  we recommend that you contact the proper civil authorities about the circumstances you described as they are in a much better position to provide the assistance you are seeking."

Do you not think the proper civil authorities have been contacted? But to be fair - when I first came to realize the evil taking place, I too thought contacting the proper civil authorities was the thing to do - and that once done, those responsible for the evil would be held accountable. The problem is, there is no accountability; because there is no federal regulation what so ever - and the local governments where these programs locate, are small and easily influenced to ignore complaints as a result of the boost to their struggling economies, and campaign funds. They have few if any laws over seeing these programs; and they do not enforce the few they might have.

If you doubt this, I suggest you view Montana PBS's recent short documentary "Whose watching the kids" http://www.montanapbs.org/WhosWatchingTheKids/
They touch on this problem and it might help you understand better why the current situation makes contacting the proper civil authorities so useless.

There is a bill sitting in committee, introduced by CA Congressman George Miller (HR 1738) which would help with this situation; but so far it has no backing and seems dead in the water. I suspect the millions (and it is millions) of dollars paid to the Republican politicians campaigns has something to do with the lack of interest among the republican party members to hold this industry accountable. And keep in mind - this is coming from a sad and demoralized life long republican.

If it isn't true - then why the lack of concern? Why the silence? All I am asking FOF to do - is do what you do - Speak Out! Educate and Advocate! The research has been done for you. All you have to do is access it - and then speak out about it. You could interview CA Congressman Miller. You could interview Maia Szalavitz. You could interview countless teen victims and parents.  You could cover this issue in your citizen magazine and your FoF magazine. Isn't that what you do? Why won't you?

You write: "we trust you can understand our reasoning."

I do not understand your reasoning at all - or I do - and I find it extremely depressing.

If the Christian church won't fight such an obvious evil, then who will? And so far the church has been silent - and FOF is no exception. It makes no sence to me and I can not understand it - except in the most worldly of terms.

God's Grace and Peace to you as well Angela -

But sometimes righteous indignation is more appropriate.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Thank your for responding to Angela Jones?s e-mail of January 11.  I trust you?ll understand why I?ve been asked to reply on Angela?s behalf.  In an organization the size of Focus on the Family, where mail is received at the rate of several thousand pieces every day, it is not always possible for a given staff member to follow up on every contact he or she has had the privilege of handling in the past.  I?m happy to be able to serve you in this capacity.

 

We understand your concerns and appreciate your zeal.  But with all due respect, we have to insist that you?ve made some extremely unfair statements about our ministry.  For one thing, you?ve pulled a sort of ?bait and switch? maneuver on us.  In your first e-mail message, you were urging us to ?do some real research? on the subject of privately operated teen-help programs.  Then, when Angela responded that we have neither the staff nor the resources necessary to engage in this kind of in-depth investigation, you came back with, ?The research has been done for you ? all you have to do is access it!?  Which is it going to be?  Should we roll up our sleeves and do the hard work required to ensure that we actually know what we?re talking about?  Or should we simply rely on the word of others?

 

But the larger problem, as we see it, is that you have unrealistic expectations.  If you feel that we have been negligent about addressing the problem of abusive teen-help programs, we would suggest that this is partly because we have other priorities.  In a world as complex and multifaceted as ours it is crucial to learn how to choose your battles carefully.  To be candid, it seems to us that your criticism is akin to asking the American Cancer Society why they don?t do more to address the AIDS crisis.  When it comes to public policy activism, Focus tends to specialize in the areas of protecting innocent preborn life and defending the institution of marriage.  We cannot feasibly tackle every social problem under the sun.  We think that Christians can make a more effective difference in society if a diversity of independent organizations exist, each focusing on unique emphases and specializations that reflect the work they feel God has called them to do.  

 

We hope this reply has clarified our perspective for you.  Thanks again for caring enough to write back.  God bless you.    

 

Timothy

Focus on the Family



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Hello Timothy - or whom ever gets this. . .
No way to tell, apparently - in such a massive organization.

///Thank your for responding to Angela  e-mail of January 11.  I trust you?ll understand why I?ve been asked to reply on Angela?s behalf.  In an organization the size of Focus on the Family, where mail is received at the rate of several thousand pieces every day, it is not always possible for a given staff member to follow up on every contact he or she has had the privilege of handling in the past.  I?m happy to be able to serve you in this capacity.///

Thank you Tim. But don't you have an internal mail system? Can't you forward email to the Appropriate person? But any way - thanks for taking the time to write.

///We understand your concerns and appreciate your zeal.  But with all due respect, we have to insist that you?ve made some extremely unfair statements about our ministry.///

For example?? I was asking question, and expressing concern for what the answers might be. All things considered, I feel what I have speculated to not only be fair, but highly likely.

  ///For one thing, you?ve pulled a sort of ?bait and switch? maneuver on us.  In your first e-mail message, you were urging us to ?do some real research? on the subject of privately operated teen-help programs.  Then, when Angela responded that we have neither the staff nor the resources necessary to engage in this kind of in-depth investigation, you came back with, ?The research has been done for you ? all you have to do is access it!?///

The fist letter to FOF was back in 2003. But as to this recent flurry of email; I explained why I had mentioned doing the research. An earlier gentleman, speaking for FOF, told me doing the required research would take time. So I assumed there was a department that did research. It dose in fact, make perfect since you would have such a department.  But, Angela says there isn't; and you concur. So - I pointed out the research has been done - and all you have to do is access it.

///  Which is it going to be?  Should we roll up our sleeves and do the hard work required to ensure that we actually know what we?re talking about?  Or should we simply rely on the word of others?///

Apparently you have no intention of doing either. However, concerning this: "should we simply rely on the word of others?" No - that might lead to yet another Mike Warnkie type fiasco. But you should realize, there is no need to take others word for anything. There are plenty of established facts in evidence. Obviously, the whole issue is to boring for you to bother with looking into in even the most superficial way; never mind rolling up your sleeves and doing any hard work.

///But the larger problem, as we see it, is that you have unrealistic expectations. ///

No sir - my expectations are absolutely realistic. You have a radio program in which you could do some very eye opening and fascinating interviews. You have at least two (no three, no four) magazines in which you could appropriately cover this issue. All very realistic expectations.

 ///If you feel that we have been negligent about addressing the problem of abusive teen-help programs, we would suggest that this is partly because we have other priorities. ///

Yes. I know. So I have suggested.

/// In a world as complex and multifaceted as ours it is crucial to learn how to choose your battles carefully.  To be candid, it seems to us that your criticism is akin to asking the American Cancer Society why they don?t do more to address the AIDS crisis.  ///

I am sorry - but this is ridiculous. I am asking you to cover a situation that is with out question a Family Issue; that is with out question hurting and even destroying families; and from a Christian perspective, an issue of cultic indoctrination in Large Group Awareness Training Seminars - which with out question, erodes and destroys the Christian faith of those who attend.

///When it comes to public policy activism, Focus tends to specialize in the areas of protecting innocent preborn life and defending the institution of marriage.  We cannot feasibly tackle every social problem under the sun.  We think that Christians can make a more effective difference in society if a diversity of independent organizations exist, each focusing on unique emphases and specializations that reflect the work they feel God has called them to do.  ///

So - your telling me once a child is born, you are no longer concerned about the abuse and neglect of that child?  Your telling me the Abortion activist are right about you then?

The sanctity of marriage is only threatened by gays wanting to get hitched - and not at all by cults that say divorce the spouse who isn't supporting ones blind faith in the Program?

Your telling me James Dobson has no concerns about LGAT? I know for a fact that is not so - because I remember well his radio program dealing with his concern that corporate employees were being pressured to attend LGAT.

So, FOF (James Dobson) objects to the psychological rape of corporate America - but there is no problem if it is just thousands and thousands of mentally ill or  drug abusing kids, and there desperate, but ignorant parents?  
 

You know, when I first began to tell others we needed to contact FOF, they all, with out exception, told me it was a waste of time. One after another expressed their opinion that you had become obsessed with a very limited spheer of purpose; and that your  politics would never allow you to touch on this issue. I thought they were being far to cynical.

It is true you have become extremely limited in your "focus". You have long ago lost all relevance for my family. In the 1990's when my teen age daughter developed a mental illness - we as a family were struggling mightily, but you had nothing to offer by way of advice or resources. Absolutely nothing. Still, you held a place of affection and appreciation in my heart; for the many helpful messages of the 1980's.  [sentence redacted] Since then, I began to have serious problems with my son; and once again FOF had absolutly nothing helpful to offer. Consequently, my family wound up victimized by the notoriously corrupt Troubled Teen industry. As I began to learn about it; and realized the direct correlation to the LGAT James Dobson had warned corporate America about, I felt sure you would want to educate American families about the realities and the dangers rampant in this industry.  But no. Really isn't an issue you give a rat's ass about. Turns out my cynical friends were correct.

///We hope this reply has clarified our perspective for you. ///

I think it dose.

Here is my home address:

[removed for privacy]

Take me off all your mailing list.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



 Thanks for responding once more -- it?s apparent there will not be a meeting of the minds.  Per your request, we have removed your name from our mailing list.  Please know, however, that because this list is prepared in advance, you may continue to receive our literature for about two months.  Be assured that these mailings will cease at the end of that time.  We hope this will not inconvenience you in any way.

 

Timothy
Focus on the Family
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Offline Oz girl

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« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2007, 03:56:43 PM »
I get the feeling that they have much less influence but has anyone tried the religious left?

I would give either of these 2 guys a go. Spong in particular is fairly well known here I dont know what his influence in the US is

http://www.dioceseofnewark.org/jsspong/

http://www.beliefnet.com/blogs/godspolitics/

http://www.sojo.net/index.cfm?action=ab ... aff=Wallis

http://www.samaritanspurse.org/ContactUs_Index.asp franklin graham contact webpage

http://archny.org/departments/index.cfm?i=860 Cardinal Egan Archdiocese of New York
« Last Edit: February 12, 2007, 08:26:52 PM by Guest »
n case you\'re worried about what\'s going to become of the younger generation, it\'s going to grow up and start worrying about the younger generation.-Roger Allen

Offline Deborah

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« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2007, 04:02:13 PM »
:roll:
That must've been disappointing, Karen. Thanks for the effort, anyway. I think you made some valid points that he/they were just too defensive to hear. Reminds me of AARPs lame attempt to appear to advocate for seniors.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
gt;>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline Oz girl

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« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2007, 07:53:23 AM »
i wrote an email to Spong and Jim Wallis. Attached is a proforma if anybody wishes to use it to contact anyone of religious influence. i do not know who the powerful players are so ppl should just write to whoever. i think you will find Buzz that not once is the word Fuck used. Not even by a heathen like me    :P

Dear Jim/Your Grace/insert correct title

As a religious Minister/Archbishop/priest who takes and interest in a wide range of moral and social justice issues, I was wondering if you had considered looking into and devoting a blog/public statement/homily to the troubled teen industry in the US. Between roughly 10000 and 100000 young people are privately incarcerated each year by well meaning parents. Schools which often call them selves Residential Treatment Centers, Emotional Growth Boarding schools and Wilderness can hold children from 3 months to two years without being sent home for the usual summer break, exeat weekends and religious holidays. Often mail is censored, and parcels searched. Strip searches and other invasive procedures also are not uncommon. On many occasions students are subjected to invasive group therapies. Refusal to comply is often punished in some cases with a longer incarceration time or a stripping of basic privileges. No student has the right to opt out of treatment. Many programs also subject students to lengthy emotionally exhausting emotional growth seminars or Large Group Awareness Training sessions which many of the major churches frown upon. The majority of such programs also have extremely strict rules about when a student can leave the campus and as a result most students are by default denied their right to practice the family faith as they can not leave to attend masses and church services.
 
While from time to time the young people in these treatment centers are there because of an involvement with the justice system, many are sent by their families either because of substance abuse problems, misbehavior or minor mental illnesses. Parents are often kept in the dark about what the treatment entails or told that their child is exaggerating any ill effects in order to leave. It should also interest you to know that some of these programs have level systems that a student has to work through. What this means, particularly in the case of youngsters sent by the justice system is that there is no discrete sentencing time, rather the student leaves when the school or program decides that they are ready. Given that the overwhelming majority of such programs are run on a for profit basis there is a vested financial interest in seeing students fail. On numerous occasions student have been about to ?graduate? and leave only to be made start the process again when caught in very minor misdemeanors.  

What is most concerning is that some of these programs claim to be Christian based but use methods that are extremely inhumane both physically and emotionally and which most major religious schools have either done away with or never practiced.

I look forward to seeing you cover this most important cause.

Yours sincerely
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
n case you\'re worried about what\'s going to become of the younger generation, it\'s going to grow up and start worrying about the younger generation.-Roger Allen

Offline OverLordd

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« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2007, 11:31:56 AM »
How extreamly disapointing that such a man as Dr. Dobson would surround him self with people such as these. They seem to be doing a very good job of insolating him from everything but abortion and gay marrage issues.

I'm sure Dr.Dobson cares, you just have to cut through the beurocracy to get there.

P.S. there is no such thing as the religious left, just the heritcial left.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
our walking down a hallway, you turn left, you turn right. BRICK WALL!

GAH!!!!

Yeah, hes a survivor.

Offline OverLordd

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« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2007, 11:32:55 AM »
copy
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
our walking down a hallway, you turn left, you turn right. BRICK WALL!

GAH!!!!

Yeah, hes a survivor.

Offline BuzzKill

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« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2007, 11:53:11 AM »
Quote from: ""OverLordd""
How extreamly disapointing that such a man as Dr. Dobson would surround him self with people such as these. They seem to be doing a very good job of insolating him from everything but abortion and gay marrage issues.

I'm sure Dr.Dobson cares, you just have to cut through the beurocracy to get there.

P.S. there is no such thing as the religious left, just the heritcial left.


I think your right, but I have no idea how to get through to him. I have actually tried to get a call in when he has been on Larry King - but never got past the busy single.

Your a younger person right? Maybe college age or there abouts? I wonder if you might want to try and contact Ryan Dobson and explain this industry and why it is a concern? I could - and so could lots of folks - but I think it would be better coming from someone in the group he is targeting with his ministry - young adults.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline BuzzKill

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« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2007, 11:56:45 AM »
PS: Good Job OZzie
Knew I could count on you :D

Hey folks - I am having a difficult time with the board. I often get long load up times and blank pages. Also double posts. Anyone else suffereing from these hassels?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline OverLordd

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« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2007, 11:59:31 AM »
My direct activism kind of stoped after a unforutnate event last year.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
our walking down a hallway, you turn left, you turn right. BRICK WALL!

GAH!!!!

Yeah, hes a survivor.

Offline Deborah

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« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2007, 01:09:52 PM »
Quote from: ""BuzzKill""
PS: Good Job OZzie
Knew I could count on you :D

Hey folks - I am having a difficult time with the board. I often get long load up times and blank pages. Also double posts. Anyone else suffereing from these hassels?


Yes, it's not just you. Pages hang, slow posting sometimes followed by an error message, then post again causing a duplicate. Frequently when it starts moving slow, I close the page and reopen in a few minutes.
Not sure what the problem is, but you might post your experience in the Web Forum Hosting Forum.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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