Hello dear moderator may I ask a question??

[Anonymous]

Hello, moderator, thankyou for having this site. Its too bad it needs to exist, but it certainly has helped keep me sane recently (well to a certain extent)
May I ask you how I make a thread sticky?
Id like to have the report suicide thread up front where anyone coming to this site may happen upon it

thank you

[Nobody]

Well ya know the old saying; moderation in all things, including moderation.

I'm a little ambivalent about sticking topics. I've done it quite a bit here lately, but I'm almost ready to unstick all of them and go back to the more democratic (not to mention zero effort on my part) policy of leaving it to ppl who care enough about a topic to bump them as they see fit.

What do ya'll think?

[Anonymous]

I prefer the democratic method. The stickies get annoying.

[Anonymous]

In general the democratic method is good

But not for the suicide  &  ruination (institutionalzation, prison etc)  and recount of personal damage thread.

When people come to this site they should know we are looking for suicide into.!

Otherwise they may simply choose to keep this info to themselves.

Knowing it serves a greater purpose will motivate them to report.
We need to collect a database" of  victems . SUch a database can trigger investigations. If only an inquiry into how many other children commited suicide, wound up in prison etc.
That would be useful for
1) legal purposes
2) scientific purposes
3) galvanization of survivors and their families- families need to know their youths death is caused or was driven from CEDU
4)  to simply to honor the dead and destroyed- it should be recognized these youth were driven to suicide NOT JUST TROUBLED YOUTH REACHING THEIR INEVITABLE CONCLUSION

I hope Ive explained myself well. Its very important to as I was very close to a child Murdered by CEDU. The child wasnt yet old enough to drive

[drlongjon]

Jeez, I went to RMA for 7 months and it sucked to te first degree, but I don't think you can blame them completely for people killing THEMSELVES. Some guy hung himself with a belt while I was there and I got to know him a little before he did it. I guess because we started the program at the same time, but I don't think RMA killed him, he was a bit fucked in the head when I met him. I didn't kill myself because I went there, though I did escape a few times resulting in a 6 week Ascent stay. I then escaped from Ascent but got caught again, that added another 2 weeks to my stay, so 8 weeks at Ascent, 7 months at RMA.

[Anonymous]

Jeez, I went to RMA for 7 months and it sucked to te first degree, but I don't think you can blame them completely for people killing THEMSELVES. Some guy hung himself with a belt while I was there and I got to know him a little before he did it. I guess because we started the program at the same time, but I don't think RMA killed him, he was a bit fucked in the head when I met him. I didn't kill myself because I went there, though I did escape a few times resulting in a 6 week Ascent stay. I then escaped from Ascent but got caught again, that added another 2 weeks to my stay, so 8 weeks at Ascent, 7 months at RMA.

Jeez, please dont tell me what I "can" and "cant" blame for the suicide of  "jan" whom I knew very intimately, as a twin. "Jan" was very happy going in and utterly broken when she got out. There therefore, is only one possible cause.

If such a happy and vivacious child could be driven to suicide, then a child who was allready "fucked in the head" as you so sensitively put it, is even more vulnerable and likely to be driven to suicide- and yeah Cedu would be the cause.

Congratulations on not killing yourself. Guess what? I didnt either however I can recognize that torturing a person can quite easily drive them to suicide. And yeah the person torturing is to blame.

If I kidnapp you as a child, lock you in my basment and cut off various limbs while telling you you are a worthless insane failure etc...and finnally after 5 years you kill yourself..who is to blame?

Im not saying Cedu cuts of limbs ...but you get the point.

[Anonymous]

can we make the thread sticky please?

[Anonymous]

Yes, I suppose you can blame Cedu. You can blame many different circumstances and happenings on that one final culminating moment. If you feel so stronly about this, why don't you try to think of a way to do something about it. I get the impression this is something that keeps you up at night sometimes. You need closure.
Sorry if I came off as an arrogant prick, I just feel that a final decision is based on a series of events. I also realize that one moment in your life might lead you to act insane, such as coming home to find your wife/husband in bed with another. I have had 3 personal friends kill themselves that never stepped foot near a Cedu campus, on the other note, I've seen people post positive things towards Cedu. I don't have anything positive to say about RMA but I can't speak on everyone's personal experience. I'll shut up now.

[drlongjon]

I wrote the post above, I don't know why it says guest.
-Dr Long Jon

[Anonymous]

You are right; a death is always based on a series of events that lead up to it.
As people MUST exist BEFORE they die there will always be events that lead up to their death

If someone is shot their death is not due ?solely? to being shot but other events that led up to that. Perhaps they were older and less capable of recovery, perhaps the town had slashed its ER budget, and perhaps they hung out with an unsavory crowd.

However, his/her death is still due to being shot, and the murderer is still responsible. Likewise when a similarly destructive act is commited to a child- as was done at Cedu that is the casue of death. Cedu is responsible.

There?s a huge difference between having someone cheat on you, which may be sad(I never got asked to the prom- that sucked) but that hardly rises to a to a cult abducting you, holding you captive while your mind is developing and systematically torturing, isolating and suypefing you for a couple of years in a completely controlled environment in a deliberate attempt to dismantle your mind. This same separation is evident in tapping someone on the shoulder vs shooting them. In one case a death could be attributed to an unfortunate series of events, the other to murder

Cedu was designed so that kids would become deranged enough to willingly debase themselves, as a pimp drives a child prostitute to abase herself, to abuse other kids, and believe things- not through teaching- but through damaging their brains ability to think Sometimes they succeeded- they created utterly broken, helpless human beings. So the kids werent even traumatized in a "simple" way (which is bad enough) such as...I dont know..being kidnapped and forced to work in a brothel. They were not just deep in sorrow over what had been done to them, but dealing with a damaged brain that could not make sense of their sorrow or "climb" their way out of it.

Legally, people are often held responsible for the suicides of children(and adults) if egregious cruelty, recklessness, or violation of rights can be established. People have been put  in jail for murder because during the process of a robbery the victim had a heart attack, (which I don?t agree with) or because they have exposed their child to abuse such as forcing them to work as a stripper or holding them in isolation. Cedu and Mel wasserman are not above the law

Yes it does bother me, and Im trying to do something about it. DOnt worry its just an emotional issue

[try another castle]

This was posted in another thread "The psychology of torture." Thought I'd cross post it here. Suicide isn't stated outright, but it is implied, and regardless, the outcome is sad. Don't know anything about the poster, or the validity of the entry, but I prefer to take this one at face-value.

http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=20223&start=15

absolutely .when my baby got out of cedu she remembered her past and present as they wanted her to.
She described her life with Cedu descriptions.

She thought she was a drug addict! All without ever actually having taken drugs MONSTERS.
She wrote in her diary " i tried to grow up real fast" THOSE WERE NOT HER NATURAL WORDS She would never be so trite, Its like something out of those anti drug pamphlets "i tried to grow up real fast"
ridiculous.perverts
And her description of her life was completely incorect... the things she highlighted ....it was a forced biography.
did they make you write your biographies there?


also, i know ill get jumped on for this. but i dont care. My baby was murdered there. They had no right to murder her. Without her the world is sick and pointless. -its as bad as the holocaust.

She was so kind. They might as well have killed everyone in the world- her world is gone forever!!!!! The world is gone for her.

ANd HItler won. Hes rich -not hanged as he should be. And shes just as dead as if she was stuck in an oven.. just as innocent. Kill me and my whole town too my state but let my little one live. Ill throw myself in the pyre what do i care? The importance of a life is not a question of numbers.!! What did she do to anyone ever? Just lived a sad lonely life and then died. A flower that bloomed that nobody saw
And they got away with it

[blownawaytheidahoway]

i think it inevitable that some of the kids that were really depressed or bipolar would be harmed by CEDU when I was there, because if you needed the use of drugs FOR ANYTHING, it was weak and wrong. You were supposed to control your "flags", you were in control of your pain, anger, and emotional detatchments.

Depressed young people, who were in an already state of chemical imbalance due to puberty, and the emergence of what would have today been regarded as clinical depressio, were thrust into situations daily in which ANY and ALL feelings/ emotions they had, they were personally responsible for. Nevermind if you were going along having an OK day as a normal "balanced" teen, then get yelled at really confrontationally and genuinely in a rap or out in the wood corral- that would cause someone young to have a rough day or two. Now add in the HISTORY: abandoned there, hating it there, actually having real NEEDS/ PROBLEMS, and even already having suicide attempts and THEN have the bad rap or the abusive "counselor" tell you what a piece of shit you are. HOW DO YOU THINK YOUNG BOYS AND GIRLS WILL REACT? I was so very unhappy, at first, It was a fucking miracle I made it through the first year without having a REAL EPISODE.

I can't even write what is absolutely true, and open my book and my life up to speculation by these dogs who use 13 and 14 year old boys and girls to justify the ENDs. It is true, they will lie and cheat and branch off and start their own companies, and misrepresent their educations, their histories, and THIER ARRESTS to continue making money believing in a cultic model of BLACK/ WHITE DUALISTIC thinking.  On that note, what I wanted to write was that I sometimes find it amazing that I made it through the first year without having an episode that immediately harmed myself or others. I was that unhappy. I was unhappier at CEDE/RMA, though, than I was at home with my family.

It's so sad to realize at 30 that my parents felt the opposite.

I would have been a better, more confident, happier person, on my own! It is just plain obvious now that MEL saw which way the tide was blowing when they changed gears and allowed medication, changing the evil mask of Mel's CEDU, to DR. CEDU. Sad, sad liars.

[blownawaytheidahoway]

Kids.
Don't want Em. Don't really like 'em, but know what it was to be one that didn't want to be YOU. over thirty and ALIVE? Boring.

so i know. some kids need to be different than their peers for a few years. punishing anyone who bucks the system (when they are EXPECTED to buck the system) is sad to begin with. That places exist as an AMERICAN model of MONEYMAKING, to actually "modify the behavior" of these teens, such as I was, is just fucking lame. That it hurt me, harmed my relationship with my family, isolated me from society, fucked up my politics, and made me generally a blunt, anti- authoritarian, Machiavelian, is unforgiveable. If they had supported me in my own personality and instead of giving me:

"every time (you manipulate) someone tells you 'you're a good person, you tell yourself you're a bad person'"

they had given me:

"every time you tell or do a good deed to another person, you become a better person"

I would be different instead of learning things for myself NOW.

It (ironically) is not easier for me to hate my parents, than CEDU. I blame them for being parents that felt like they needed CEDU. But it is unforgiveable that CEDU did not give my parents accurate information about their coercive, cookie cutter, program. But hey, for a grand total of about 2 years, my parents got EXACTLY WHAT THEY PAID FOR. And now I know that that product is a a little teeny tiny demon at a control room deep inside my psyche, and I'm still finding the right mechanism to gas that little fucker!
Looks, like it might be time for another "FANTASTIC VOYAGE."

"Tickets Please"

[try another castle]

I don't really even know how to speak to the bipolar issue. I'm bipolar, but have no idea how it compounded my experience there. I know I felt suicidal my whole stay, and then, miraculously, when I graduated, the feelings dissipated. I was essentially in a depression the whole time, while simultaneously thinking I was happy and wanted to be there.

I do feel lucky in that I wasn't attending when Dr. Ulrich took the reins and overmedicated and misdiagnosed students left and right. I think I was probably better off being mindfucked without being medicated by a quack at the same time.

My parents' poorest excuse regarding placement is "Hey, they didn't have the kinds of meds then that they do now.  Had they been around, we would have tried that instead of sending you away."

To which I say "Uh, guys, lithium has been used for treatment since the 40s, tegretol has been used for treatment since the 70s, and depakote has been used since '83."

But I digress... It's fucked up enough that parents place kids in these joints, but I think it's even more mind boggling when a parent who has a kid with a valid mental illness (and not some bullshit oppositional defiance disorder diagnosis) sends them to an unregulated facility such as a TBS school. Granted, psych wards aren't that much better, but if the kid isn't a 5150, they shouldn't be in the looney bin, anyway. They should be out, being their crazy-assed selves. I was perfectly happy being my crazy-assed self. Mania during the teen years can be quite a trip! (And you know that the friends you have are true friends, cause the shallow fuckers will run away screaming cause they can't tolerate you.) RMA was a major buzzkill. Fuckin' ruined my high, man.