Author Topic: Behavioral Problems Alternatives  (Read 5572 times)

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Offline psy

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Behavioral Problems Alternatives
« on: January 01, 2007, 05:40:51 PM »
Hi.  I'm a generic parent.

My kid does not have substance abuse problems, but is otherwise causing all kinds of trouble at home.  He/she is fucking everything that walks / cutting his/herself.  He/she is throwing things around the house, getting kicked out of school, flunking out of courses, otherwise generically raising hell.  He/she is depressed also, has ADHD, anxiety, and a host of other things programs promise to fix.

Other than a program... What can i do?

Clarification for moro^H^H^H^H people who don't get the reason i am posting this.  The purpose of this thread is to find alternatives to programs.   No i am not an actual parent (at least i hope not)
« Last Edit: January 01, 2007, 07:19:08 PM by Guest »
Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
Sue Scheff Truth - Blog on Sue Scheff
"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)

Offline Anonymous

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Behavioral Problems Alternatives
« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2007, 05:44:10 PM »
Generic mocking reply, with situationally-dependent barbed insult.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2007, 06:08:41 PM »
Add up the cost of the program you were considering, and average stay. Then write up a contract with the behaviors you would like your kid to follow, and things that the family should work on. Then if the kid follows the contract for the amount of time the program would be, give them the money you would have spent on a program in cash, for whatever they want.
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Offline exhausted

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Re: Behavioral Problems Alternatives
« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2007, 06:10:48 PM »
Quote from: ""psy""
Hi.  I'm a generic parent.

My kid does not have substance abuse problems, but is otherwise causing all kinds of trouble at home.  He/she is fucking everything that walks / cutting his/herself.  He/she is throwing things around the house, getting kicked out of school, flunking out of courses, otherwise generically raising hell.  He/she is depressed also, has ADHD, anxiety, and a host of other things programs promise to fix.

Other than a program... What can i do?
Find out where you went wrong with your child and work your butt off to help your child heal him/herself - you won't be able to go out and socialise, your life will be on hold, but it is your job to see your kid through it, talk to your kid, take your kid out, share their interests, give them the choice to either go wrong or do the right thing, allow their consequences to be theirs and theirs alone - do not bail them out, you love your generic child, but you do not have to like him/her, neither do you have to be punished for their actions                    
Tough it out, kids don't come with a manual, but as a parent (generic or not) you will know what is required and NOT required of you to deal with this.
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Behavioral Problems Alternatives
« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2007, 06:50:06 PM »
Quote from: ""psy""
Hi.  I'm a generic parent.

My kid does not have substance abuse problems, but is otherwise causing all kinds of trouble at home.  He/she is fucking everything that walks / cutting his/herself.  He/she is throwing things around the house, getting kicked out of school, flunking out of courses, otherwise generically raising hell.  He/she is depressed also, has ADHD, anxiety, and a host of other things programs promise to fix.

Other than a program... What can i do?


I'm going to presume you're not trolling and it's a serious question.

Our foster daughter has some similar issues, which I am not going to list for the sake of her privacy.

What we are doing is taking her to a good psychiatrist to treat mental health issues, and a good therapist to work on day to day behavioral function and coping skills.

We have brought everybody from her bio mom to her adult friends on board to make sure that the rules are the same no matter where she goes. It matters that a kid who's going through a rough time not have a place to get away from reasonable rules. We don't do like the Programs and put stupid rules on just to get her used to knee jerk following of rules.

It's like dealing with a toddler---just like it. Anticipate and outmaneuver.

You figure out the payoff behind the behaviors, and you make sure you keep the bad behaviors from being rewarded. Then reward what you want to see again.

You totally ignore the cutting. Tell him you know cutters do it to release anxiety and if he has to cut, to please clean up after himself. Treat the anxiety and the cutting will eventually go away. Meanwhile, ignore it unless a cut gets infected, then get it treated.

Do Not let cutting be some kind of way for him to tell you when he's upset. Be blithe about it. You don't want to add an extra payoff over and above the anxiety relief.

Ignore the schooling--he's doing it partly to get attention and you don't want to reward it.

Give him attention for good behavior, not bad.

The worst that can happen with the schooling is that it's up to him to take his GED and make up for lost time later. If you're worried about loss of education beyond GED level that's in a high school diploma, by all accounts that happens anyway in a Program. Ignore it, he's old enough that it's his problem, not yours.

Yeah, that's what I said. You have to have healthy boundaries, you have to have healthy patterns of control in your parenting relationship.

That means you have to know and acknowledge what's in his sphere of control and let him control it, and you have to know your sphere of control and not let him control that.

If you try to control his schooling, then it's a battle between you he can try to "win." If you recognize that--at his age--nobody can control whether he learns but him, then you can make schooling outside the realm of parent-teen battles. He can decide whether to be pig ignorant for awhile or not. They're his consequences and you really, truly can't do squat to prevent him from choosing ignorance. So if you don't try, and it's not a battleground between you, that's your best chance of him possibly choosing education over ignorance.

Throwing things is different. If he breaks a lot of stuff around the house, it's vandalism. If he throws stuff at people, it's assault. Criminal stuff? Call the cops. Full stop. Whatever they do to him is more humane than the Program and more effective. Natural life consequences---by which I mean what the adult world would inflict on him if he pulled that crap as an adult--are always preferable to artificial, manufactured consequences.

In other words, if the raising of a kid has already been thoroughly screwed up--by yourself or others, you have to apply, functional, normal, healthy parenting techniques and take whatever improvement that gets you.

If you let your rose bush fall apart with black spot, then once you start with the anti-fungal and proper plant care, it doesn't get better overnight, and it still has a whole lot of damage that doesn't get better for a long time past its next blooming season.

What, you're going to screw up by the numbers in raising the kid and then expect not only a quick fix but for someone else to do your quick fix for you for money?

I feel sorry for the Program survivors, but the parents deserve what they get for being so shallow and stupid as to expect someone else to carry their relationship obligations, for money, and deliver an impossible, unrealistic, overnight fix.

You know those ads that show people having an "easy button"? Program Parents are looking for an easy button and ought to be bumped back to childhood themselves and turned over someone's knee!  Is there any better illustration of how the kid got screwed up in the first place than to have parents who flubbed the job then expected someone else to deliver a quick fix for money?

And please, a year or two and all better is expecting a quick fix.

If you've screwed up raising your kid, you get competent, apply normal, healthy parenting techniques, and live with whatever improvement you get. You'll at least get some improvement. Good parenting techniques have been handed down for thousands of years--good parents know what works without going overboard and abusing the kid.

In our case, someone else messed up raising our foster daughter and we're, again, getting what improvement we can.

You work within your own healthy boundaries and take what you can get.

The depression and anxiety are the potentially life-threatening issues. Address those first. As long as you're getting the kid to the psychiatrist to deal with the life threatening part, let the rest hang fire--make it not a battleground between you and hope for the best.

Julie
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2007, 06:51:23 PM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
Add up the cost of the program you were considering, and average stay. Then write up a contract with the behaviors you would like your kid to follow, and things that the family should work on. Then if the kid follows the contract for the amount of time the program would be, give them the money you would have spent on a program in cash, for whatever they want.


Now there's an idea.

Alternatively you can send your kids to me for half the price of a program. No, seriously. I am the choice of last resort, and I can absolutely guarantee I can take care of your kids full-time for a mere hundred dollars a day. (This is not a joke, actually. I really will do this. A hundred bucks a day to deal with kids almost as nasty as I am beats most other jobs I've had.)

But if you don't trust me, think: If you wouldn't pay me that much money to take care of your kids and keep them out of trouble, why would you pay programmies? They have about the same amount of credentials that I do, and a much larger history of abuse.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2007, 07:06:37 PM »
If you didn't like the long version, short version:

Pick the most immediately dangerous issue as your battle.

Call the cops for criminality that threatens your family or home.

Make the other issues not a battleground by ignoring them. If a teen can't fight with you over an issue, after awhile throwing it in your face becomes much less fun.

Emphasize healthy boundaries and recognize where his healthy control begins and yours ends.  His "healthy control" can and often will include making self-destructive decisions. He'll get over that faster if you don't make it a tool he can use to tick off his parents.

You can't screw up for fifteen years and fix it all in three. Neither can anybody else.

The anti-fraud experts all say the same thing: If it sounds too good to be true, it is.

Take the real over the gilded lily false promise.

Julie
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2007, 07:14:09 PM »
Quote
Program Parents are looking for an easy button and ought to be bumped back to childhood themselves and turned over someone's knee!


Dark chuckling ensues.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2007, 07:14:23 PM »
Quote
Call the cops. Full stop. Whatever they do to him is more humane than the Program and more effective. Natural life consequences---by which I mean what the adult world would inflict on him if he pulled that crap as an adult--are always preferable to artificial, manufactured consequences.


Cops + Court = state run program
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Offline Charly

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« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2007, 07:15:25 PM »
Julie- getting your kid into the legal system is the worst thing you can do.  We had this discussion on a thread yesterday.  It is simply a terrible choice.  Anything is preferable to the legal system.
While 15 years of anything can not be undone in one or two, sometimes the teen needs to be kept safe until he or she figures some things out.  This is AFTER local psychiatric/psychological care has failed.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2007, 07:20:08 PM »
Quote from: ""Charly""
sometimes the teen needs to be kept safe until he or she figures some things out.


So we're agreed, then? You're endorsing my plan?

Excellent!

I hope to see the kids and the money start rolling in any time now.

Remember, folks, a hundred bucks a day and I'll even let you call them when you want.
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Offline psy

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Behavioral Problems Alternatives
« Reply #11 on: January 01, 2007, 07:29:06 PM »
Quote from: ""try another castle""
Julie. I had a question. I'm not a parent, so I wouldn't know for certain. My initial belief, when a kid goes 5150, was as yours, to call the cops. However, now that courts can and do sentence children to public sector boot camps and other questionable programs (I think Daytop Villiage took kids sentenced from the courts, too), would there possibly be some other way of dealing with this, since this could also potentially put a kid in a program? (Of course, the other option is juvenile hall, and if I had no choice but to pick one of those two, I'd go with juvie.)


Having been in program, i'd have to agree that i would have preferred juvie to what i had to go through.

Look. I believe this industry remains so attractive because of the lack of alternatives, and may parents fear the justice system more than any program (with some reason).  Many parents are just not aware of how bad programs are.

Regardless of how bad they are, they will remain the preferable alternative as long as they can't find anything else to do with their kids,
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
Sue Scheff Truth - Blog on Sue Scheff
"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)

Offline try another castle

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« Reply #12 on: January 01, 2007, 07:32:55 PM »
sorry, psy. I deleted it, when I noticed that other people had already brought up the  issue in the thread as I was penning it. It seemed redundant. But I guess it wasn't after all.
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Offline psy

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Behavioral Problems Alternatives
« Reply #13 on: January 01, 2007, 07:50:27 PM »
Quote from: ""Charly""
Julie- getting your kid into the legal system is the worst thing you can do.  We had this discussion on a thread yesterday.  It is simply a terrible choice.  Anything is preferable to the legal system.

WWASP even?  CEDU clone?  locked in a basement?  Which is more abusive?  Which, including the legal system, would, in your opinion, be most likely to yield the results desired by parents?  The kids?  You've already heard from two ex-CEDU / CEDU clone students who would have preferred juvie.  Can you force somebody to change if they don't want to?  Should you?

In programs, parents often have no idea what is done to their kids in order to attain a desired result.  What the parents don't know can't hurt them.  Do the ends justify the means as long as it changes your child's behavior?

Is coerced change ethical or long lasting?

What in your mind defines unethical coercion?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
Sue Scheff Truth - Blog on Sue Scheff
"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)

Offline Charly

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« Reply #14 on: January 01, 2007, 07:54:12 PM »
Carlbrook was far preferable to the legal system.  I am very familiar with the juvie system and facilities-  it is not where you EVER want to be.
No, the ends don't justify the means.  But you have to look ahead.  You think you lose control of your kid when you send them to a program?  Try letting them get into the legal system.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »