Author Topic: All kinds of libel from Willie(karenInDallas) on ST  (Read 11174 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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All kinds of libel from Willie(karenInDallas) on ST
« Reply #60 on: December 22, 2006, 08:57:28 PM »
I didn't lash out at society. society lashed out at me.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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All kinds of libel from Willie(karenInDallas) on ST
« Reply #61 on: December 22, 2006, 09:19:47 PM »
I am society.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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All kinds of libel from Willie(karenInDallas) on ST
« Reply #62 on: December 22, 2006, 10:02:50 PM »
Society is a hole.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anne Bonney

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All kinds of libel from Willie(karenInDallas) on ST
« Reply #63 on: December 22, 2006, 11:07:12 PM »
Quote
Don't sweat it Anne, it was a misquote, we know WilieNelson said this and not you :wink:


Thanks Ex, I appreciate that.  As anyone who has been reading my posts even for just the past few weeks knows, that's not a philosophy I subscribe to in the least.  Cassandra is a friend of mine and has been for a few years.  For her to even think that I would have written that or think that way, and her shitty little remarks about my offer for her to stay with me if she wanted to come down says a lot about what I thought was a good friendship.  

That's the last I'll say about this issue as it's personal and doesn't concern this topic, but that really pissed me off.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
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The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline Anonymous

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All kinds of libel from Willie(karenInDallas) on ST
« Reply #64 on: December 22, 2006, 11:40:54 PM »
Ex- you seem to be putting words in people's mouths.  No one called you selfish.  Hmmm- feeling that way perhaps?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline psy

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Karen edited her post
« Reply #65 on: December 23, 2006, 04:19:26 AM »
Karen Edited the offending post on ST, apologized to a whole bunch of people privately (about her role in the escalation of things), and posted this on ST:

Quote from: ""WillieNelson""
I want to take this opportunity to wish all of you a happy and safe holiday, whether or not your families are together.

Going forward, I would like to work towards ending the animosity between our parents' forum and the Fornits forum. Perhaps Henry Kissinger would be willing to help us reach a common ground. [Smile]

I apologize to everyone-both on Fornits and here-for my role in the nasty threads on both forums. I believe there are many posters on Fornits with in-depth knowledge about specific programs. This has been gained either from working at the programs or from attending them. For now, it might be necessary to use Private Messaging on Fornits if you want information, because parent inquiries are still met with some skepticism and disdain. We, in turn, have been guilty of having the same attitude over here towards some of the program opponents.

Everyone's goal is the same- to find solutions for the troubles that confront our families and our teens. Residential placement is a LAST resort and NO program should be permitted to enroll teens if there is any abuse- physical or emotional. Many of us on this forum believe that there are, in fact, reputable and effective programs. Most of the Fornits posters believe that ALL teen help programs are inherently defective because there is no proven therapeutic value and there is no licensing oversight. I am willing to keep an open mind and be educated by both forums.
Where I reach a roadblock is when I look for alternatives. I honestly feel that I had NO alternative to the course we took with our son. We had tried everything before we resorted to wilderness. I welcome input from all concerned as to what could be presented to families in crisis as alternatives to residential programs.

I feel that there is too much anger and conflict in the world, and this is a step I want to take to try to eliminate some of it .

Peace and best wishes to all.
Karen


I actually think she should be given a second chance.  I have recommended she register a username and come back and post in a little while after the hostilities have subsided.  I told her it might be hard for others to believe she is sincere but let's give her the benefit of the doubt.  We all know how stubborn some parents can be.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
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Offline psy

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counter-counterpoint
« Reply #66 on: December 23, 2006, 05:04:51 AM »
Quote from: ""counterpoint""
not knowing what you call a "program" vs. a residential therapeutic enviornment, or what would be therapy to you at all, it isn't easy to counter.  Pray tell, what is therapy ... to you???

Therapy can only be provided by licensed Psychologists / psychiatrists.  Otherwise, it is "emotional growth" which tends to be anything but.  See below:

Quote from: ""counterpoint""
Life is full of coersive things.  Get a drivers license or face posible fines.  Register your car or face fines or impound.  Give your kids a state-standard education of be subject to child abuse penalties.  Work hard and well and get the legal means for a nice new car and fancy dinners, otherwise eat what you get at a shelter.

I don't think the DMV uses lifespring / est / raps.  That is what people are referring to as "coercive".

Quote from: ""counterpoint""
The concept of child suggests guidance/direction from parents etc is in order so they can learn generally accepted standards.  Parents have a duty to impart those things.  The concept of adult suggests maturity of independent judgment.  Laws set the split between child and adult usually around 18 - 21, but there really is no magic "click".

Doesn't someone who has legal right to a home and shares that with another has the right to "demand" certain conduct in order to let that other person continue to reap the benefits of occupancy??

Within reason

Quote from: ""counterpoint""
With kids, those "benefits" include food, clothes, etc.  Are such "demands" as to conduct as a condition of continuing to get residency etc a coercive practice?

It depends on the demands.

Quote from: ""counterpoint""
Or are parents required to accept/allow whatever their kid does indefinitely without consequence?  Are the parents obligated to provide the same benefits regardless of behavior or be deemed coercive? Somewhere along the line, parents are morally and legally obligated to provide certain things for their kids, whether or not the kids ask for them.  Parents are at least morally obligated to guide behavior, and often are legally responsible if the behavior doesn't conform to established standards.

This is true.  However parents are not only responsable for this.  If a child  in program accuses the place of abuse, and the parent, on programs request, dismisses the accusations as "manipulations", the parent is liable if the child is found to be telling the truth.

Quote from: ""counterpoint""
So, if the kids behavior is not conforming to established standards, aren't the parents legally (forget morally for the moment) required to get that behavior to become modified?  Or does that become the awful "behavior modification" to be avoided?

Modifying behavior does not equal "behavior modification".  The behavior modification techniques practiced by many programs( lifespring, est, other LGAT techniques, confrontational therapy derived from Synanon), often by unqualified/licenced staff, are not what psychologists would define as "behavior modification". On the contrary, they would likely define it as abusive if not highly unethical.  Parents do NOT have a right to do that, or have it done to their children.  Parents are NOT permitted to modify their child's behavior by any means necessary; however more often than not they are not aware it happens.  How many parents are full aware of the details of what happens in programs?

And this is just regarding emotional abuse.  Do you think WWASP style (dog cages etc...) discipline is ok?  It may modify behavior, but at a cost only paid by the child.

More info on LGAT techniques. - Source: APA

Quote from: ""counterpoint""
When the kid doesn't substantially conform to legal standards of conduct, what should a parent do - or not do - to meet their legal obligation?  ...their moral obligation?


Buy a parenting book?  Talk to a psychologist?  Group therapy?  Wrap-around (in home) programs?  30 day treatment/detox centers?  Let it pass?

Practically any option is better than sending your kid into an industry that is completely unregulated, and recommended by another completely unregulated industry (educational consultants).
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
Sue Scheff Truth - Blog on Sue Scheff
"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)

Offline Troll Control

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Re: Karen edited her post
« Reply #67 on: December 23, 2006, 05:53:26 AM »
Quote from: ""psy""
Karen Edited the offending post on ST, apologized to a whole bunch of people privately (about her role in the escalation of things), and posted this on ST:

Quote from: ""WillieNelson""
I want to take this opportunity to wish all of you a happy and safe holiday, whether or not your families are together.

Going forward, I would like to work towards ending the animosity between our parents' forum and the Fornits forum. Perhaps Henry Kissinger would be willing to help us reach a common ground. [Smile]

I apologize to everyone-both on Fornits and here-for my role in the nasty threads on both forums. I believe there are many posters on Fornits with in-depth knowledge about specific programs. This has been gained either from working at the programs or from attending them. For now, it might be necessary to use Private Messaging on Fornits if you want information, because parent inquiries are still met with some skepticism and disdain. We, in turn, have been guilty of having the same attitude over here towards some of the program opponents.

Everyone's goal is the same- to find solutions for the troubles that confront our families and our teens. Residential placement is a LAST resort and NO program should be permitted to enroll teens if there is any abuse- physical or emotional. Many of us on this forum believe that there are, in fact, reputable and effective programs. Most of the Fornits posters believe that ALL teen help programs are inherently defective because there is no proven therapeutic value and there is no licensing oversight. I am willing to keep an open mind and be educated by both forums.
Where I reach a roadblock is when I look for alternatives. I honestly feel that I had NO alternative to the course we took with our son. We had tried everything before we resorted to wilderness. I welcome input from all concerned as to what could be presented to families in crisis as alternatives to residential programs.

I feel that there is too much anger and conflict in the world, and this is a step I want to take to try to eliminate some of it .

Peace and best wishes to all.
Karen

I actually think she should be given a second chance.  I have recommended she register a username and come back and post in a little while after the hostilities have subsided.  I told her it might be hard for others to believe she is sincere but let's give her the benefit of the doubt.  We all know how stubborn some parents can be.


FWIW, she took the initiative to reach out and settle things (uncomfortably eating a lot of crow along the way- humbly).  She did this privately with a bunch of folks.  We've been talking a little bit privately and have ironed things out.  It's the holiday season after all, so try to give it a go...
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Offline Troll Control

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Re: Karen edited her post
« Reply #68 on: December 23, 2006, 05:54:48 AM »
Quote from: ""psy""
Karen Edited the offending post on ST, apologized to a whole bunch of people privately (about her role in the escalation of things), and posted this on ST:

Quote from: ""WillieNelson""
I want to take this opportunity to wish all of you a happy and safe holiday, whether or not your families are together.

Going forward, I would like to work towards ending the animosity between our parents' forum and the Fornits forum. Perhaps Henry Kissinger would be willing to help us reach a common ground. [Smile]

I apologize to everyone-both on Fornits and here-for my role in the nasty threads on both forums. I believe there are many posters on Fornits with in-depth knowledge about specific programs. This has been gained either from working at the programs or from attending them. For now, it might be necessary to use Private Messaging on Fornits if you want information, because parent inquiries are still met with some skepticism and disdain. We, in turn, have been guilty of having the same attitude over here towards some of the program opponents.

Everyone's goal is the same- to find solutions for the troubles that confront our families and our teens. Residential placement is a LAST resort and NO program should be permitted to enroll teens if there is any abuse- physical or emotional. Many of us on this forum believe that there are, in fact, reputable and effective programs. Most of the Fornits posters believe that ALL teen help programs are inherently defective because there is no proven therapeutic value and there is no licensing oversight. I am willing to keep an open mind and be educated by both forums.
Where I reach a roadblock is when I look for alternatives. I honestly feel that I had NO alternative to the course we took with our son. We had tried everything before we resorted to wilderness. I welcome input from all concerned as to what could be presented to families in crisis as alternatives to residential programs.

I feel that there is too much anger and conflict in the world, and this is a step I want to take to try to eliminate some of it .

Peace and best wishes to all.
Karen

I actually think she should be given a second chance.  I have recommended she register a username and come back and post in a little while after the hostilities have subsided.  I told her it might be hard for others to believe she is sincere but let's give her the benefit of the doubt.  We all know how stubborn some parents can be.


FWIW, she took the initiative to reach out and settle things (uncomfortably eating a lot of crow along the way- humbly).  She did this privately with a bunch of folks.  We've been talking a little bit privately and have ironed things out.  It's the holiday season after all, so try to give it a go...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
The Linchpin Link

Whooter - The Most Prolific Troll Fornits Has Ever Seen - The Definitive Links
**********************************************************************************************************
"Looks like a nasty aspentrolius sticci whooterensis infestation you got there, Ms. Fornits.  I\'ll get right to work."

- Troll Control

Offline Fake Parent Troll

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All kinds of libel from Willie(karenInDallas) on ST
« Reply #69 on: December 23, 2006, 08:16:16 AM »
Well then -- truce, it is.
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Offline Charly

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All kinds of libel from Willie(karenInDallas) on ST
« Reply #70 on: December 23, 2006, 08:36:50 AM »
Thanks, Guys.  My registered name is Charly.
Appreciate the posts.
Karen- no longer in Dallas
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Offline psy

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All kinds of libel from Willie(karenInDallas) on ST
« Reply #71 on: December 23, 2006, 08:38:08 AM »
Quote from: ""KarenInDallas""
Well then -- truce, it is.


yeah but you ain't karen.  would the real Karen Austin Please stand up?

Ok well if you are which i highly doubt.  what was the subject line of the most recent e-mail you sent me?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
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Offline Fake Parent Troll

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All kinds of libel from Willie(karenInDallas) on ST
« Reply #72 on: December 23, 2006, 09:20:51 AM »
Quote
yeah but you ain't karen.


Duh!  :rofl:
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Offline Charly

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All kinds of libel from Willie(karenInDallas) on ST
« Reply #73 on: December 23, 2006, 09:55:26 AM »
I am the real Karen.
Psy-   "Teens/Parents Saga" or something to that effect was the subject line of our recent emails.

Merry Christmas all.
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Offline psy

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All kinds of libel from Willie(karenInDallas) on ST
« Reply #74 on: December 23, 2006, 10:00:25 AM »
Quote from: ""Charly""
I am the real Karen.
Psy-   "Teens/Parents Saga" or something to that effect was the subject line of our recent emails.

Merry Christmas all.


Actually that was the second to last.  But you couldn't have guessed that so i guess you're really Karen.

Merry Christmas to you too  ::birthday::
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
Sue Scheff Truth - Blog on Sue Scheff
"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)