Author Topic: TB Mom's Thread: Split from Experiences  (Read 28882 times)

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Offline mbnh31782

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TB Mom's Thread: Split from Experiences
« Reply #180 on: December 27, 2006, 04:11:53 PM »
I think its a good idea to look into a transitional day program for school.  as long as he doesnt reside at the program and its only for schooling, its probably state monitored.  make sure you ask where their state credentials are and be sure that the program is versed on his background.  additionally it would probably help to visit the program with him.  instead of a transitional program, a private school would probably cost the same and give you the added benefit of focused classes that meet him at his level.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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TB Mom's Thread: Split from Experiences
« Reply #181 on: December 27, 2006, 04:20:48 PM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
Who was the facilitator?


Oh, great question Anon!  Perhaps TB Mom overlooked the question or doesn't realize the significance of the question.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Nihilanthic

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TB Mom's Thread: Split from Experiences
« Reply #182 on: December 27, 2006, 04:37:12 PM »
I would get SPECIFICS about this "youth transition day program". I would get SPECIFICS about if they would ever cut off communication or hold him captive in any way or how they do punitive measures or any of their 'structure'.

And anything CONFRONTATIONAL... big fat no-no!!! The point here is he needs to learn to be a free person again not a damn captive puppet who isn't done being stepforded.

I do find it odd that he "chose out" of the seminar for "not crying enough". That kind of just stinks of LGAT bullshit, considering the entire point is to cause an emotional breakdown... no?

Also, JNZmom, the emotional 'high' you get from a seminar is a pathological effect. Its just like the euphoria you get after any stressful/traumatic event is over and you feel better when you're not being hurt anymore.

I strongly suggest you read up about just how these things manipulate and screw with people's heads... http://perso.orange.fr/eldon.braun/awar ... hology.htm <- is a good write up done by trained professionals (yanno, actual psychologists!) that can help shed some light on what they did to you and others and how it is done.

I'll go ahead and paste the conclusion here...

Quote
CONCLUSION

We have argued that while many participants experienced a sense of enhanced well-being as a consequence of the training, these experiences were essentially pathological. First, ego functions were systematically undermined and regression was promoted by environmental structuring, infantilizing of participants and repeated emphasis on submission and surrender. Second, the ideational or interpretive framework provided in the training was also based upon regressive modes of reasoning--the use of all-or-nothing categories, absolutist logic and magical thinking, all of which are consistent with the egocentric thinking of young children. Third, the content of the training stimulated early narcissistic conflicts and defenses, which accounts for the elation and sense of heightened well-being achieved by many participants. The devaluation of objective constraints upon a person's action promoted grandiose fantasies of unlimited power. A corollary to this devaluation of the external world wits that interactions with others lacked substance. People appeared to be interchangeable so that ephemeral, indiscriminate emotional contacts were experienced as profound and meaningful. Identification with Lifespring necessitated considerable idealization so that any threat to this experience was aggressively defended against.

Our methods had an effect on our experience of the training and on our conclusions. The Lifespring Basic training, which demands full participation and rejects the legitimacy of observation, provided a particular challenge to the participant-observation method. In the Lifespring milieu any evidence of observation became evidence for the need for further "growth," for getting away from analysis or "intellectual trips." Lack of full emotional involvement in the training thus set the authors apart from the-group and led us to experience the training differently from the rest of the participants. As a result, we are not qualified to speak from the point of view of the "average participant." We did not, to use Lifespring's words, "got the training."

However, as parficipant-observers, we did share some of the group's subjective experiences, particularly the extraordinary pressure to conform. In this instance, the context of participant-observation, which as Rabinow (1977) says is dictated by "observation and externality," provided us with the opportunity to note the lengths to which the trainer was willing to go in attempting to achieve the required submission and commitment which we have described In this paper. Thus participant-observation, although a research strategy not. suited to fully integrating the researcher into the Lifespring Basic Training, did prove to be invaluable for developing insight into the processes of that training.

We have not addressed the normative implications of the training nor the extent to which participants are prepared by our culture to respond positively to Lifespring. The ideational content of the training would he less persuasive, perhaps, if beliefs concerning the autonomy and power of the individual were not deeply embedded in the prevailing ideology of American society. Growth organizations seem to be capitalizing upon the erosion of traditional means of supporting these beliefs and of anchoring individual identity. A deeper understanding of this phenomenon would require an analysis of the sociohistorical context out of which it emerged and from which it has gained its legitimacy.


IOW, its bullshit and basically just filled you full of nonsense. You didn't really face any issues you just got given a lovebomb after being broken down.

Or in the words of so many, they blew sunshine up your ass.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
DannyB on the internet:I CALLED A LAWYER TODAY TO SEE IF I COULD SUE YOUR ASSES FOR DOING THIS BUT THAT WAS NOT POSSIBLE.

CCMGirl on program restraints: "DON\'T TAZ ME BRO!!!!!"

TheWho on program survivors: "From where I sit I see all the anit-program[sic] people doing all the complaining and crying."

Offline Nihilanthic

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TB Mom's Thread: Split from Experiences
« Reply #183 on: December 27, 2006, 04:39:47 PM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Who was the facilitator?

Oh, great question Anon!  Perhaps TB Mom overlooked the question or doesn't realize the significance of the question.


If a facilitator can make a LGAT good or bad does the rapist make rape good or bad?

And dont even get into rape vs BDSM, the former is unconsentual, the latter has people at every step giving a willing participant safewords, safer sex information and just general safety nonsense and "SAFE SANE AND CONSENTUAL" over and over, something a seminar NEVER is.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
DannyB on the internet:I CALLED A LAWYER TODAY TO SEE IF I COULD SUE YOUR ASSES FOR DOING THIS BUT THAT WAS NOT POSSIBLE.

CCMGirl on program restraints: "DON\'T TAZ ME BRO!!!!!"

TheWho on program survivors: "From where I sit I see all the anit-program[sic] people doing all the complaining and crying."

Offline Anonymous

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TB Mom's Thread: Split from Experiences
« Reply #184 on: December 27, 2006, 09:22:56 PM »
It actually makes a pretty big difference in this case.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Nihilanthic

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TB Mom's Thread: Split from Experiences
« Reply #185 on: December 27, 2006, 09:23:51 PM »
SPECIFICS? Or just "well it does cos I say so"?

Becuase here, you can't just say so... there's nobody to put us in OP if we say "nuh uh".

And to me its still like saying "well the rapist makes the rape good or bad".
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
DannyB on the internet:I CALLED A LAWYER TODAY TO SEE IF I COULD SUE YOUR ASSES FOR DOING THIS BUT THAT WAS NOT POSSIBLE.

CCMGirl on program restraints: "DON\'T TAZ ME BRO!!!!!"

TheWho on program survivors: "From where I sit I see all the anit-program[sic] people doing all the complaining and crying."

Offline Anonymous

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TB Mom's Thread: Split from Experiences
« Reply #186 on: December 27, 2006, 09:26:00 PM »
I can just say no. See, I just did.

Quote
And to me its still like saying "well the rapist makes the rape good or bad".


 :-?  :rofl:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Nihilanthic

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TB Mom's Thread: Split from Experiences
« Reply #187 on: December 27, 2006, 09:27:25 PM »
Yep, but apparently that anon thinks you can force someone into a towel-slapping, mind-fucking LGAT and make it good instead of bad, depending on who leads and pushes the buttons.

So I guess I can rape someone good instead of bad if Gilcrease teaches me how? I'll sign right up!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
DannyB on the internet:I CALLED A LAWYER TODAY TO SEE IF I COULD SUE YOUR ASSES FOR DOING THIS BUT THAT WAS NOT POSSIBLE.

CCMGirl on program restraints: "DON\'T TAZ ME BRO!!!!!"

TheWho on program survivors: "From where I sit I see all the anit-program[sic] people doing all the complaining and crying."

Offline Anonymous

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TB Mom's Thread: Split from Experiences
« Reply #188 on: December 27, 2006, 09:30:26 PM »
I don't know anything about rape, sorry.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Nihilanthic

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TB Mom's Thread: Split from Experiences
« Reply #189 on: December 27, 2006, 09:34:26 PM »
Well then explain how a seminar can be done nonconsentually but 'good' depending on the facilitator, please.

I mean, psychological, emotional rape vs 'physical rape', how different can it be?

BTW, I've had at least one person tell me gang rape is preferrable to going through a rap... so yeah, do explain!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
DannyB on the internet:I CALLED A LAWYER TODAY TO SEE IF I COULD SUE YOUR ASSES FOR DOING THIS BUT THAT WAS NOT POSSIBLE.

CCMGirl on program restraints: "DON\'T TAZ ME BRO!!!!!"

TheWho on program survivors: "From where I sit I see all the anit-program[sic] people doing all the complaining and crying."

Offline Anonymous

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TB Mom's Thread: Split from Experiences
« Reply #190 on: December 27, 2006, 09:36:13 PM »
Seek answers elsewhere. Jnzmom, when you posts again I'd be curious to know who the facilitator was.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Nihilanthic

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TB Mom's Thread: Split from Experiences
« Reply #191 on: December 27, 2006, 09:37:25 PM »
Ok, so, you say it can make it good, but can't explain why?

You can't just say something and not back it up! The reversal of the burden of proof is one of the biggest things the programs do and get away with way too much.

Until you start explaining, I'm gonna keep saying bullshit.

So, bullshit!

 :wave:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
DannyB on the internet:I CALLED A LAWYER TODAY TO SEE IF I COULD SUE YOUR ASSES FOR DOING THIS BUT THAT WAS NOT POSSIBLE.

CCMGirl on program restraints: "DON\'T TAZ ME BRO!!!!!"

TheWho on program survivors: "From where I sit I see all the anit-program[sic] people doing all the complaining and crying."

Offline Anonymous

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TB Mom's Thread: Split from Experiences
« Reply #192 on: December 27, 2006, 09:38:36 PM »
Good, I like that.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Nihilanthic

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TB Mom's Thread: Split from Experiences
« Reply #193 on: December 27, 2006, 09:39:58 PM »
Who are you anyway?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
DannyB on the internet:I CALLED A LAWYER TODAY TO SEE IF I COULD SUE YOUR ASSES FOR DOING THIS BUT THAT WAS NOT POSSIBLE.

CCMGirl on program restraints: "DON\'T TAZ ME BRO!!!!!"

TheWho on program survivors: "From where I sit I see all the anit-program[sic] people doing all the complaining and crying."

Offline jnzmom

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TB Mom's Thread: Split from Experiences
« Reply #194 on: December 27, 2006, 11:25:28 PM »
Carol!  Does that help anything?  I think not.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »