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WWASP Experiences

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psy:

--- Quote from: "Guest" ---You all are walking into the middle of a dysfunctional, codependent mother & son relationship.
--- End quote ---

Show me a family that's not dysfunctional and I'll show you a family of really good liars.  Who are you to judge them?  My only advice to Pam would be to avoid blogging about such personal matters on the web as people will try and use your words against you.

Anonymous:

--- Quote from: "Guest" ---You all are walking into the middle of a dysfunctional, codependent mother & son relationship. There is no "right" or "wrong" in a situation like this, and really nothing to be arguing about.

From her blog blog:



--- Quote --- Dylan and I have been fighting for about 4-5 days before they started working on Monday.  Things have not been good between us since he got fired on August 22nd.  Dylan and I living together when he is not working has always been a recipe for disaster – throw in some MAJOR demolition/ construction hell at the house – and the unemployment situation and lack of HELP only makes me angrier at Dylan.  I am not angry that he got fired, I am angry that he is doing very little (ie: nothing) to FIND gainful employment.

I watched him do absolutely NOTHING for 2 weeks and it took everything in me not to want to kill him – I was advised to be a little understanding.  I took the advice because I felt it was right (it was), but inside I was still RAGING and FURIOUS, but trying to be nice, loving, supportive and understanding with him on the OUTSIDE.

Stettner has taught me the difference between being “care-frontational” and “kong-frontational.  This information has been very helpful to me and I feel I have made much progress along those lines in a over last 2-4 months.  It is always about being in a “teachable state.”  Sometimes I can be teachable; other times not so teachable. I find myself not so receptive because my resentments get in the way.  I have my demons to face and conquer and Dylan has his – we both have our worst issues over the same person – Dylan’s father (Taylor) – just different reasons for our fury.

Our respective issues with Taylor are wide and diverse and most definitely play themselves out when/while we are fighting or when the household is in a stage of unhappiness or unrest.  ALL of this baggage prevents us for leading happy and fulfilling lives.  We must face these issues if we are to survive without being real f’d up people for the rest of our lives.  I sincerely thought I had come to terms with the damage I endured while Taylor & I were together, but a single conversation with him in February of this year made me realize that “I” still have an array of unresolved issues that cause emotional pain for me and most surely affect my interactions with Dylan.

That is MY STUFF and MY work.  He is not responsible for the sins of the father.  He, on the other hand, has different issues with his Dad and HE will have to deal with those issues “outside” of the relationship he and I ENJOY- most of the time!  I am biased and I know it.

That is why we have Dr. Stettner – a TRAINED and highly skilled clinician & professional helping us sort this stuff out.  Clearly, Dylan and I have NO CLUE on how to do this, but we are relying on her to help us find our way OUT of a cycle we do not want to continue.  We would be “dead in the water” without her and WE LOVE HER AND HER FAMILY SO MUCH!!!

Dylan does not think he is an addict or an alcoholic – the rest of us think he is. You can turn a cucumber into a pickle, but once a pickle, you can never be the cucumber again. He says he can quit any time so I invited him to do so.  Dylan made a commitment to me that he would NOT DRINK for 90 days.  I said that is a brilliant idea – if he can go off booze for 3 months I am sure we will all see a much different Dylan.

We talked for about 3 hours yesterday and I explained my take & experience with AA/NA.  For the first 3-5 years I NEEDED to go to 5 meetings a week and live in a sober living house with 12 other women.  My brain has been engraved with all I learned from AA – whenever I am unsettled I go right back to all the things those people taught me.  13 years later, I still don’t make “big decisions” without the advice of my trusted advisors – you all know who you are.  When there is chaos, I go back to the beginning and make gratitude lists…whatever works.

The point being is that establishing a concrete AA/NA foundation made me solid and gave me a guide for living comfortably in my own skin.
--- End quote ---


--- Quote ---We survived 21...what's next??? Just more crap!
With respect to Dylan....What he is doing now is not what we agreed to.  Yes, I am pissed because he had a total of 11-12 days of doing NOTHING – only had 1 requirement the WHOLE damn time – get your driver’s license renewed (I even gave him money so he could pay the fee in his birthday card) BEFORE it expired on his birthday which was Wednesday!
One thing…one simple thing to accomplish in 11 days…is that too much to ask?  I think NOT!  
He has plenty of time to go on joy rides up and down PCH to clear his head and get him out of the house.  How can his calendar be SO FILLED with appointments that he can’t get a simple DL renewed on time…when you have not worked for 11 days?  It was not as if he "didn’t know" because “I” was the one who harped on that topic for last 3 weeks. It is just so fricking irresponsible and I am sick of it.
The “Task Sheet” I gave him might as well be wall paper.  He sees no reason to even commence ANYTHING on that list unless he is EXPRESSLY told 1000 times –maybe more…to do so, just so he can have the satisfaction of pissing me off.  He has also suddenly developed some newly developed fear of spiders – since some/most of the projects he is to work on will involve clearing spider webs and other debris. Nothing on that sheet takes a rocket scientist to complete – he was supposed to have already started on the 4th and done by the weekend -  but he was dealing with  hangovers.
This is bull$hit and he has been "working me" all week trying to figure out how to get out of a weekly 2-3 hour session with Stettner AND then having to attend an AA/NA meeting EVERY Sunday after the session. That seems to interfere with HIS agenda.
 As long as he had a valid driver’s license and insurance, he was allowed to drive my bigger, more powerful, scooter to his appointments with her, but sorry…NO DL…no drive.  He made sure that any way available to actually attend his session - he sabotaged…I believe, on purpose.  I am sure he is only going to placate ME anyway.
He is a lazy slob!  He will call her with some crackpot story about “how unreasonable I am”.  He needs to focus his attention on finding a way to make his appointment with her tomorrow.  Maybe a call from her might nudge him back into reality and how he lives on EASY STREET!  I am tired of being taken advantage of or living in this house with the friction that is in direct proportion to his level of inertia.  His mere presence can make me want to smack him across the face…just venting…I will not lay a hand on him.  
I will talk more to Stettner on Tuesday, but I know she is going to get some stupid sob story  from him on WHY he can’t make his appointment Sunday...all bull$hit. He must see her ONCE a week in order to live here…period…no discussion.
--- End quote ---



--- Quote ---Ever since the estrangement between Dylan and me that began last Monday and was “full blown” by Thursday, I have sent a text message to him every day telling him that  love him and that I pray God is watching over him and keeping him safe – I never received a response until about 3pm Sunday afternoon. In response to telling him that I love him…he said that “doesn’t help when I am fu*ked…Thanks though…”  Since I prepaid for Dylan to stay a week at the motel and check out is today, I figured that I would be hearing from him in some way shape or fashion once my money stopped flowing.  Now is when it REALLY gets hard and he get very personal & ugly!

The PRIMA IRY reason I paid for the 1 week rental at the motel was because I really didn’t feel like hearing all the guilt messages…”I am sleeping in the street, I am hungry, etc.”  I paid for my own peace of mind and to buy some time until I had time to sort things out.  I even offered to pay for another week just so I didn’t have to deal with the Dylan drama that I know is coming once he realizes how serious I am.

The days of my financial support of a lifestyle I don’t feel is neither productive nor appropriate for someone of Dylan’s age, is over.  I need about $1700/month to just break even on the upstairs unit while Dylan lives there paying NO RENT having a grand old time these past 6 months - “his money” is reserved for partying or partying supplies, a cleaning lady to clean his room and do his laundry, and basic utilities (DWP & Gas Co)…not cable with ALL movie channels, no internet connection, monthly cell phone bill.  He comes home after work with an entourage of 3-9 people almost every night! I go up there and it is like some frat house with people all over the place, never knowing who's face I might see in the morning. THIS WAS NOT WHAT I SIGNED ON FOR!!!

The phone calls and guilt trips have already started and I am an evil mother who is “pulling the rug out from under him.”  Told him this should not be a surprise as he has been warned many times since I came home from the hospital that he was on “thin ice with me” – whether or not he CHOSE to HEAR that is not my concern.
Pause….Dylan calling…

He is calling me names, saying that I am a liar, I go back on my promises, the reason he is such a “good liar” is because he learned it from me….blah…blah. He said that I am just an addict and a “Xan head”…meaning I am wasted on Xanax all the time.  As I told him…am I taking Xanax?…yes!  Have my docs been weaning me off…yes!  I was very upfront with Stettner and the rest of my doctors about my attempts to self-medicate when my depression is not under control.
Basically...a few phone calls with Dylan being nasty and hanging up on me…then calling me back because he wants something or he forgot some insult he needed to hurl at me.  I can’t control Dylan or the hurtful things that get said. He is angry and is just going to need to work things out on his own this time. His mother needs to look out for herself.

I have an appointment with Stettner tomorrow so I will be out most of the day.  On a scale of 1-10, I would give myself a 7 for today!
--- End quote ---

--- End quote ---

uh...ok that's really not normal. I guess troubled youth really does come from troubled adults. How did you find this blog guest? I will also say that despite being troubled, Pam loves and looks after her son, so while imperfect, she's still not a "program parent."

FemanonFatal2.0:
Reading that, it is quite clear that not only is Pam not a program parent, she is a weak and enabling parent and her son is a fucking asshole.

Here's where our whole stance on child victim vs. parent abuser gets switched upside down. This is a genuine situation where the parent is being abused and the child has learned that is all he has to do to survive in life... use and abuse his weak willed unconditionally loving mother. Its sad, very sad, for both of them.

I have been out of my parents house since I was 17, I have done WHATEVER it took to survive. I went through a violent relationship, couch hopped, lived in my car (and had many run ins with cops for parking and sleeping in restricted areas), worked 3 jobs, took low paying degrading jobs simply because that was all that was available to a 17 year old, did semi nude photos for cash, sold all my nice things, ate top romin every day, supported myself through school, took care of crazy bratty kids for a place to stay, took on 4000 in credit card debt, had many times got sick from dehydration and starvation, and believe me the list goes on and on.

These are the life lessons asshole kids NEED to learn. It wasn't until I went through this and truly matured that my mom felt confident that I deserved her help. She got me an apartment and offered me a job working for her company and I have been doing well ever since. Not to say it hasn't been rocky or stressful, I still work 3 jobs and often do only have top romin to eat, but I have since became an adult. An adult who pays for her own 3 bedroom house, supports her boyfriend (of 3 years) through college and still has time to devote her efforts to 2 beautiful children and a cause that she is passionate about. If I hadn't been out on my ass and had to learn fist hand how hard life is, I would have never learned how to provide for myself as I do today.

Kids like Pam's son are little shits that always had everything handed to them and never had to work for their lives. You might think I'm being a hypocrite by saying this, and maybe I am because this view slightly contradicts my other views, but I really think these kinds of kids need a dose of reality. Ill never say a program is that solution and when you have a minor in the house that pulls this kind of shit you have VERY little options besides to put up with it till their 18 then give them the boot. But this guy is 21!!! he should have taken that hike A LONG TIME AGO. and he should stop blaming his mom that he hasn't already. Pam isn't innocent in this either, she created this monster by not preparing him to leave at 18, or at the most 20. She has also done more harm than good just throwing money at the situation and being nice. I understand she's probably afraid of this kid so there's not TOO much she can do to kick him into gear... but she needed to put her foot down and cut off the piggy bank a long time ago.

look guys, you can bash on Pam all day long, but from the looks of it, your worst could never trump the daily torture her son has put her through. Maybe not because of her choice for sending him to casa, but I'm sure you can say she has gotten her karma 10 fold. ::poke::

Anonymous:

--- Quote from: "FemanonFatal2.0" ---Reading that, it is quite clear that not only is Pam not a program parent, she is a weak and enabling parent and her son is a fucking asshole.

Here's where our whole stance on child victim vs. parent abuser gets switched upside down. This is a genuine situation where the parent is being abused and the child has learned that is all he has to do to survive in life... use and abuse his weak willed unconditionally loving mother. Its sad, very sad, for both of them.

I have been out of my parents house since I was 17, I have done WHATEVER it took to survive. I went through a violent relationship, couch hopped, lived in my car (and had many run ins with cops for parking and sleeping in restricted areas), worked 3 jobs, took low paying degrading jobs simply because that was all that was available to a 17 year old, did semi nude photos for cash, sold all my nice things, ate top romin every day, supported myself through school, took care of crazy bratty kids for a place to stay, took on 4000 in credit card debt, had many times got sick from dehydration and starvation, and believe me the list goes on and on.

These are the life lessons asshole kids NEED to learn. It wasn't until I went through this and truly matured that my mom felt confident that I deserved her help. She got me an apartment and offered me a job working for her company and I have been doing well ever since. Not to say it hasn't been rocky or stressful, I still work 3 jobs and often do only have top romin to eat, but I have since became an adult. An adult who pays for her own 3 bedroom house, supports her boyfriend (of 3 years) through college and still has time to devote her efforts to 2 beautiful children and a cause that she is passionate about. If I hadn't been out on my ass and had to learn fist hand how hard life is, I would have never learned how to provide for myself as I do today.

Kids like Pam's son are little shits that always had everything handed to them and never had to work for their lives. You might think I'm being a hypocrite by saying this, and maybe I am because this view slightly contradicts my other views, but I really think these kinds of kids need a dose of reality. Ill never say a program is that solution and when you have a minor in the house that pulls this kind of shit you have VERY little options besides to put up with it till their 18 then give them the boot. But this guy is 21!!! he should have taken that hike A LONG TIME AGO. and he should stop blaming his mom that he hasn't already. Pam isn't innocent in this either, she created this monster by not preparing him to leave at 18, or at the most 20. She has also done more harm than good just throwing money at the situation and being nice. I understand she's probably afraid of this kid so there's not TOO much she can do to kick him into gear... but she needed to put her foot down and cut off the piggy bank a long time ago.

look guys, you can bash on Pam all day long, but from the looks of it, your worst could never trump the daily torture her son has put her through. Maybe not because of her choice for sending him to casa, but I'm sure you can say she has gotten her karma 10 fold. ::poke::
--- End quote ---

How do you know the stuff Pam says about her kid is accurate? Maybe she's not giving you an accurate rendition of reality. I also think that your idea that you didn't "deserve" your mother's help at one point is not healthy. Posing for nude photos, being in violent relationships, getting sick form dehydration and working degrading jobs, just sounds like something somewhat tramatizing and a waste of time, not a rite of passage that "earns"  parental assistance. The "normal" parents I know help their kids through-out their life. It's not an adversarial or enabling thing, just a natural extension of love; kind of like you help your boyfriend? Your view seems a little skewed, in my opinion. JMO

Anonymous:
sorry if when i said skewed that comes off rude. MERRY CHRISTMAS

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