Author Topic: Elizabeth Smart and cults...  (Read 2908 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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Elizabeth Smart and cults...
« on: March 13, 2003, 11:14:00 PM »
Whether you believed that the Seed was a cult or not, the unfolding Elizabeth Smart story is a good refresher course on the dynamics between cult leader/wacko and follower, how it is so easy for young vulnerable teenagers to become brainwashed, and why they begin to fear and shun those on the outside.  

I highly recommend you follow this story so that you can see the parallels and understand how Art Barker manipulated his "followers."
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Offline Anonymous

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Elizabeth Smart and cults...
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2003, 12:13:00 AM »
Think about the Helsinki syndrome and how it applied to us, how we all came to "love" our captors after the intitial fear and bizzare way we viewed them.

She went thru something very similar I am sure.
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Offline Anonymous

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Elizabeth Smart and cults...
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2003, 08:27:00 AM »
i believe it's the "stockholm syndrome" from 1973...
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Offline Antigen

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Elizabeth Smart and cults...
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2003, 10:10:00 AM »
And dig this! The daughter of the woman who was with them, Emanual's common law wife I guess she was, said in an interview that her mother and he had met in a drug rehab. Hmmmmmm! Presumably one near SLC.... HHHMMMMMMmmmmmmm!!

He, who has nothing, and who himself belongs to another, must be defended by him, whose property he is, and needs no arms. But he, who thinks he is his own master, and has what he can call his own, ought to have arms to defend himself, and what he possesses; else he lives precariously, and at discretion.
http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/a1_8_12s4.html' target='_new'> James Burgh 1774

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Offline Anonymous

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Elizabeth Smart and cults...
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2003, 04:39:00 PM »
:silly:
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Offline Antigen

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Elizabeth Smart and cults...
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2003, 06:37:00 PM »
What stretch?

A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
-- Robert Heinlein

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Offline Anonymous

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Elizabeth Smart and cults...
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2003, 06:42:00 PM »
Aren't the Mormons widely regarded as a cult outside of the US?

I have to admit that my first thought on reading the news item was , well, the Mormons are a cult aren't they, these people are Mormons... hence their kids are already somewhat vulnerable. And I'm not saying this out of malice,  but simply that I can understand her pain.  I hope when she gets older she can break away from that dependancy...  

Just a part of the insanity that is the world today.
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Offline Powerful Attitude

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Elizabeth Smart and cults...
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2003, 02:21:00 PM »
Hello, how is everyone today. I am very interested in any information pertaining to CULTS that hold the same characteristics of these sadistic (CULTS) :nworthy:  Rehabs. It has been 18 years for me until recently I was given a different SET OF EYES. I can't help expose the truth until I obtain what I am looking for. I saw a hell of a lot going on when i was in for 16 months, SO THE SEARCH HAS BEGUN.

Links, authors, title's, WHERE ONE WOULD FIND, Names, names, names
SINCE I'M NEW. THANK YOU.  :wave:

How did they get to the parents so well, it seemed they where all under the spell?

I believe that the parent has always been guilty of wanting too much ABUSIVE control in the get go. How else can your family look across the room at you and say all is good we'll come back next month.... or when ever the bastard earns it. They are guilty..........of control.

Is this why they were taken so easy?
How in the hell could they all have been so blind?
They (STRAIGHT) where working the arts.


[ This Message was edited by: Powerful Attitude on 2003-03-16 11:30 ]
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Offline Britt15

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Elizabeth Smart and cults...
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2003, 03:16:00 PM »
Well, she was missing for 9 months, her family seemed to be a "high up", well known "perfect" little family. I think maybe since shes only 15 she was pregnant and her parents didnt want to go through the humiliation of all that and had someone take her away until she had the baby, she camr back perfectly fine, healthy, and in the same town? Now how unlikely is that?. There is deffinitely alot more to the story than they are telling us
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Offline Antigen

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Elizabeth Smart and cults...
« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2003, 05:33:00 PM »

On 2003-03-16 11:21:00, Powerful Attitude wrote:

"Hello, how is everyone today. I am very interested in any information pertaining to CULTS that hold the same characteristics of these sadistic (CULTS) :nworthy:  Rehabs. It has been 18 years for me until recently I was given a different SET OF EYES. I can't help expose the truth until I obtain what I am looking for. I saw a hell of a lot going on when i was in for 16 months, SO THE SEARCH HAS BEGUN.

Links, authors, title's, WHERE ONE WOULD FIND, Names, names, names
SINCE I'M NEW. THANK YOU.  :wave:

How did they get to the parents so well, it seemed they where all under the spell?

I believe that the parent has always been guilty of wanting too much ABUSIVE control in the get go. How else can your family look across the room at you and say all is good we'll come back next month.... or when ever the bastard earns it. They are guilty..........of control.

Is this why they were taken so easy?
How in the hell could they all have been so blind?
They (STRAIGHT) where working the arts.


Well, here's the pitch. Drugs R bad, M'khay?

I know, I know, it doesn't seem too bad. In fact, it seems like kind of a benign statement, right?

But think of what was going on in the summer of `70 when The Seed first opened. That summer was also known as the summer of Manson. All kinds of shit was breaking loose; Woodstock, Patty Hearst and then a copy cat murderer on a military base in Maryland. All this madness was very deliberately and effectively linked to the demon weed by the Nixon Admin's propaganda service. When Bobby DuPont came out with the gateway theory (i.e. pot -> addiction -> running away with the Manson family and coming back in the night to slaughter their loving families), parents of the WWII generation believed it.

That got it started and money and political momentum have kept it going. Check out this hysterical response that a friend of mine got from his congressman in response to an inquery on medical marijuana:
Michael G. Oxley M. C.

Dear Mr. Precup:


Thank you for contacting my office in regard to the medical use of marijuana. I appreciate hearing from you.


While I understand the emotional arguments in support of medical marijuana use, it is important to give careful consideration to the reasoning of the opposition. The Food and Drug Administration has conducted much scientific research into the benefits of the medical use of marijuana, only to conclude that none exist. The American Medical Association, the National Multiple Sclerosis Society, the American Glaucoma Society, the American Academy of Ophthalmology, and the American Cancer Society have all rejected the claim that marijuana has any therapeutic value. In addition, tile law enforcement community declares that legalization might increase crime levels and hamper efforts to prevent the spread of drugs into our communities. The sale of
marijuana in pharmacies could lead to security problems for those pharmacies, as criminals attempt to steal the drug for sale on the street.


Attempts to ease federal restrictions on marijuana for medical purposes have not been very successful. State initiatives to provide medical marijuana have made little headway as well. As a former special agent with the FBI, I have seen the scourge that drugs have caused on our streets. The argument that medical marijuana serves as a gateway drug to harder drugs is also
compelling and frightening. Now the war on terrorism has been joined with the war on illegal drug use, U.S. officials have suspects in custody who attempted to use profits from illicit drug sales to finance the purchase of Stinger missiles for al Qaeda. This is a connection that must be broken, and never allowed to form, with all due haste and force.


I have the utmost sympathy for those living with the pain of cancer, glaucoma, and other diseases. However, I remain skeptical as to the benefits
of legalizing marijuana for medicinal purposes. I believe that as a society we must do everything possible to protect the health and safety of all
citizens, our families, and our communities. This *includes, in my view, increasing and not lessening the stigma that society attaches to drug use. I would regret any action by Congress that could be viewed as tacit government approval for the legalization of marijuana.


As these issues are considered by Congress, rest assured I will keep your comments in mind. Thank you again for contacting my office.


Yours truly,




Michael G. Oxley M. C.
fourth Ohio District



I can understand how parents in the 70's and even older parents in the early `80's got taken in. Some scary shit was happening and their leaders told them it was all because of the "drug culture". But I have a really hard time understanding how people my age and younger can buy into this crap or how politicians, who you'd expect to be well informed, can continue believing this tripe.

Anyway, there's a lot of history and documentation available from Wes Fager's website, http://thestraights.com/

Time's fun when you're having flies.
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Offline Antigen

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Elizabeth Smart and cults...
« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2003, 05:37:00 PM »
I'm not sure if the Smarts are Mormon or not. As I understand it, they're rather more like hippies. But I could be wrong on that.

I thought it was interesting that the kidnappers met up in rehab in Utah because Utah is notorious for ignoring abusive rehabs. WWASP and some of the other Synanon based boot camp, wilderness deathmarch and boarding schools like to locate in Utah and So. Dakota for that reason.

So I wonder what kind of rehab served as the setting for this romance.

May your days be joyously challenging and your words artfully true.
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Offline Majiktrvls

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Elizabeth Smart and cults...
« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2003, 11:45:00 PM »
Ginger,
The Smart's are anything but Hippies. They are extremely wealthy, living high on the hill, self proclaimed "good upstanding" Mormons. I doubt that they even know the meaning of the word hippie! :lol.
As for Elizabeth Smart, well there is a whole lot more to this story than the public is being made aware of. I have my own speculations, there are too many inconsistencies with the whole damn ordeal. Could it be that this kid just got sick of all the high and mighty living that she was forced to live? The huge amount of pressure that is placed upon Mormon kids to be perfect is overwhelming to most of them. That is why the suicide rate is astronomical out here. They cannot live up to the pressure. Maybe she was pregnant, maybe she ran away. Maybe she was kidnapped by this Mitchell guy (and he is truly nuts)and now suffers from the Stockholm Syndrome, who knows. I, for one, have a hard time believing that this guy was only around the family for a 5 hour period, then came back months later to take this child to be his next "wife". It does not add up. NOne of it adds up.  We most likely will never know cause this family has too much money to allow anything else to TARNISH their so called "perfect" World.  There is something definitely not "right" with the whole situation.
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Offline Anonymous

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Elizabeth Smart and cults...
« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2003, 10:13:00 PM »
Mormonism is not a cult.  visit http://www.lds.org
  --->  before you judge a group of people or a Church, try investigating about it first.  The faith and prayers of this family has been heard by God.  What happened is a great miracle and it's a proven fact that these people, these mormons have been found worthy in the eyes of God because of their faith, commitment and obedience to His will for them.  

One thing that is wrong with people is that sometimes they tend to be so proud and so wise of their knowledge of what they believe is right, they judge and judge but they lack respect for other peoples feelings and true character.  These people who you call a cult are also your brothers and sisters, and your fellow citizens.  Why do you judge them and treat them so bad?  IS it because you know that they are very forgiving and won't fight back?  Maybe that is the reason.  But this is not right and you know it.  You should judge those who have committed crimes and have proven guilty in your cities.  But give them fair judgement, according to what they have done.  Do not judge those who are trying to make this world a better and safe place.  I know many mormon people who done a great job in my community, and they are very honest hardworking people.  They are the best of friends you can ever have in this life.
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Offline Anonymous

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Elizabeth Smart and cults...
« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2003, 10:18:00 PM »
I agree to what you have said.  All the Mormon prayers have been answered, maybe, on Elizabeth Smart. The local news in the Midwest is saluting the ?news? as a miracle. Without a doubt, God has intervened in behalf of Elizabeth Smart. The fact that she has been found after all these months PROVES that God answers prayers, particularly for Mormons. And it all happened to this wonderful, wealthy Mormon family! Praise the Lord! It was God?s miracle.

I know a lot of mormons too and yes, they are very good people.
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Offline Anonymous

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Elizabeth Smart and cults...
« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2003, 09:49:00 PM »
to the person who theorizes that elizabeth was sent away for 9 months because she was pregnant --you must be deranged.  your brain must be fried.  how do you find your way out of a paper bag.  you sound more bizarre than brian david mitchell.
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