Author Topic: Qualities of Activism  (Read 3885 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Qualities of Activism
« Reply #15 on: October 31, 2006, 03:32:30 PM »
Quote
Having a licensing and regulation system in place makes it easier to go after them when they commit abuses. It means cops breathing down their necks. It makes it way, way easier to get the ball rolling when these guys (inevitably) commit some atrocity.


you already know that they can pass sham regulation and nobody knows the difference. cops in small towns where programs are.. well they dont even have cops, they have a sherriff or two, and they aren't in a hurry to shut down a big income source for their town and piss off their drinking buddies. maybe they even dont mind the extra cash from bringing back runaways.

cops breathing down the necks of the programs... dont you remember the cops breathing down the neck of that black kid who was murdered in florida by state employees?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Qualities of Activism
« Reply #16 on: October 31, 2006, 03:35:54 PM »
Quote

Law or lawlessness? Pick one, programmies. I can deal with either.


thats great for a fictional character on the internet but those of us in the real world dont want to end up in a private prison, employed by ibm making circuit boards for 25 cents an hour for the next twenty five years only to prove the programmies right about how crazy we all are.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Qualities of Activism
« Reply #17 on: October 31, 2006, 03:43:03 PM »
Quote
It shouldn't take an atrocity, considering that what they do at base is legally categorizable as abuse (treating kids like hostages, brainwashing, forced "therapy"), but that's what usually gets the places closed.


and yet they dont enforce the laws today. even when the horror stories of people like that kid in the wwasp documentary come to light, the perpetrator is not held responsible... i dont get this? if some guy accuses a priest of abusing him twenty years ago it gets investigated, why not one year ago? i agree with what you say i just dont know why they dont do it already if they really wanted to. it seems they are actively working against protecting the kids to serve their business and political interests. how can you change that paradigm? because even with programs with patterns of regular abuse and even deaths they arent investigated but also have more customers than ever.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Qualities of Activism
« Reply #18 on: October 31, 2006, 04:20:00 PM »
If you're going to reply to me, use one fucking post please.

I already addressed the Utah/Montana/bogus regulation issue in the first post on this page. Did you intentionally skip that?

A lot of the time, they do get shut down by locals.

http://www.rickross.com/reference/teenb ... boot3.html

Rural Arizona + death + local sheriff with common sense = shutdown. Why? Because they figured out what the hell they were really doing there. Local yokels- small-town sheriffs, local councilmen, etc- generally aren't sadistic or even complicit. Most of them would be horrified if they understood what was being done. They just don't know how to investigate properly, or why such a thing would be required.

Treating local authorities as being somehow complicit with any of it isn't going to help. They're being manipulated. It's our job to reverse that.

Even in the case of the Florida boot camp, when serious authorities found out what was going on, the people higher on the food chain than the people committing the abuse knew they had to stop it. They had something to lose, politically.

Also, there's a major, major difference between a "licensing" system that gives them a piece of paper and a free ride and a serious investigative and regulatory branch that issues licenses only when they know what's going on.

The way to destroy these places is to break their secrecy. Lawsuits, testimony, public releases of information, and police raids. If you listen to the propaganda and the bullshit they put out, they sound like they're invincible.

And yet, when they come here to Fornits, they're terrified, because what they're doing is fundamentally wrong and usually illegal, and they know that we know it.

I'm not going to reply to this thread anymore. You want to figure out how to do it? Go to the other thread.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Qualities of Activism
« Reply #19 on: October 31, 2006, 07:40:43 PM »
Quote
Treating local authorities as being somehow complicit with any of it isn't going to help. They're being manipulated. It's our job to reverse that.

they are corrupt i've been through the system of regulated and private programs myself and they are intertwined. nobody here is being manipulated except the kids.

Quote

Even in the case of the Florida boot camp, when serious authorities found out what was going on, the people higher on the food chain than the people committing the abuse knew they had to stop it. They had something to lose, politically.

the medical examiner covered it up. the only reason people looked into it was because there was a video of the kid getting beat to death and that is what interested the news. if therew as no video there would have been no outrage. like you said, it's about politics.. .not about wanting to help kids. if it happens in the dark it's a-okay with the govt.

Quote
The way to destroy these places is to break their secrecy. Lawsuits, testimony, public releases of information, and police raids. If you listen to the propaganda and the bullshit they put out, they sound like they're invincible.

what secret? all it takes is a google search, and even president bush knows how to do that. documentaries, news exposes, magaizine exposes, primetime news coverage, book tv coverage, several books... dude, the secret is out to anyone who even has an ounce of curiosity. the world knows, the secrets out, and the parents are still calling and this needs to be part of the equation.

Quote
I'm not going to reply to this thread anymore.


okay but if you are going to talk about activism and how people need to do stuff dont you think you should be able to offer some sort of solution that can stand up to criticism.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Deborah

  • Posts: 5383
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Qualities of Activism
« Reply #20 on: October 31, 2006, 08:56:25 PM »
Anon,
You just cited a case in which regulations were useful. Unfortunately, it didn't save Andersen's life, but helped bring the truth to light.
Do you think those guys voluntarily installed those cameras? Some higher authority required it.

There has always been, and will always be hell holes for parents to send their kids to whether public, private, religious. ?Reform? homes, Psych hospitals, Military academies. It?s as ?American? as apple pie. Look at the history. It didn't start with the War on Drugs, although that did excellerate the industry.  TBSs/EGSs are just the next iteration, with a trendy spin.

We are the most aggressive and violent 'civilized' country on the planet. We try children as adults and send them to adult prisons, and put people to death who have IQs below 50. What's a little torture to a 'pain-in-the-ass' kid? And Mr and Mrs John Doe approve cause it keeps them safe from the 'helluns'. And, I disagree, the average American still knows nothing about the industry. Take a survey in your community.

They aren?t going away. They'll never be shut down en masse. May's well remove that pipe dream from the equation. So what are we left with. The unfortunate reality is.....

Public Education- don?t underestimate the influence of sites like Fornits. Many actions have stemmed from relationships formed here. Documentaries. Tip journalists. Inform your entire sphere of influence.
On that topic and re: Trolls. Venting is good, but doesn't serve the cause. If a troll posts, avoid playing into the diversion they are attempting to creat. Post a link to information or a previous discussion on that topic or anything of relevance that a parent might need to know, and be done with it.

Advocating Regulations- as we know, don't provide assurance of safety and respect, but there are benefits, as stated before, and could provide some protection. If it saves one kids life, who's going to be there with or without regulations, it's worth it.

Advocacy isn't for the faint of heart. It's a never ending journey. A long-term commitment, sometimes with few rewards. You find the thing YOU feel is important and do it. It doesn't matter if anyone else approves. Change will come by attacking from all angles.

As for kids having rights and allowed a hearing before placement? not going to happen. The ICPC would ensure that they're evaluated and that  it's been determined that services aren't available locally. It's not happening, as we know. Programs should be required to comply with the ICPC, even if it proves to only be a pain in the ass. A group of people could work on this alone. Contact the Secretariat for advice on what can be done. Inform ICPC of how many programs are operating in violation. Take one at a time. Government workers are easily overwhelmed. Like like 10 second sound bites.

I know some are opposed to regulation. But, it?s one tangible thing you can do. I don't know how much Federal regulation will help, but state regulation can be useful in the ways I expressed early. For instance, if every state adopted regs for TBSs like Utah now has, it would 'legally' limit the kinds of kids they could take. Utah has basically limited TBSs to glorified babysitters. If a child is seriously distressed, they must be placed in a 'more appropriate' setting (RTC) which has stricter regs.

http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=19064

Here's the section that defines what type of kid can and can not be admitted to a TBS.
i. A therapeutic school shall not admit or provide services to an individual who:

A. has a recent history (within the past 2 years) of attempting suicide or making serious self-harm gestures (requiring medical or therapeutic treatment),

B. has a psychosis, schizophrenia, severe depression, mental retardation, or a severe mental illness (requiring medical or therapeutic treatment),

C. is violent, highly combative, or physically or sexually aggressive,

D. presents substantial security risks,

E. requires medical detoxification,

F. lacks the ability to engage in a rational decision-making process or exhibits severely impaired judgment, or

G. has a history of repeated runaway attempts or incidents;

ii. A therapeutic school shall expel a client who exhibits high risk behavior or conditions, including but not limited to a client who:

A. attempts suicide or makes serious self-harm gestures (requiring medical or therapeutic treatment),

B. has a psychosis, schizophrenia, severe depression, mental retardation, or a severe mental illness (requiring medical or therapeutic treatment),

C. is violent, highly combative, or physically or sexually aggressive,

D. presents substantial security risks,

E. requires medical detoxification,

F. lacks the ability to engage in a rational decision-making process or exhibits severely impaired judgment,

G. runs away or attempts to runaway more than two times,

H. uses or attempts to use illegal substances (including but not limited to drugs or alcohol) more than two times, or

I. exhibits any other behavioral or emotional conditions that require more intense supervision and treatment than that permitted in a therapeutic school;
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
gt;>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Surveilance
« Reply #21 on: October 31, 2006, 10:13:47 PM »
Quote from: ""Deborah""
Do you think those guys voluntarily installed those cameras? Some higher authority required it.


Very small, long range cameras with transmitters, phone taps, bugs, etc. can all be imported from abroad.  If you have the cash you can spring 50k and get a laser-mic capable of listening in on any window you can point it at.

Once you get the information, send it off to the press, release torrents of it on the net anonymously (yes there are ways of doing this).  Send it to the parents, the former parents, and the students.  Broadcast the abuse for all the world to see in its raw, uncensored form.

All that is needed is somebody with the know how and the cash.  Programs could drop like flies.  Who gives a damn about legal consequences.  Who in the world would prosecute you for exposing things like that, and even if they did it would be worth it.  We're talking about peoples lives being destroyed here.

It does not matter if the surveilance obtained is valid in court.  Evidence can be confirmed by secondary sources (such as witnesses, confessions, survivors, or the cops raiding the place).

Call it vigilante journalism but it would work.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Oz girl

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1459
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Qualities of Activism
« Reply #22 on: November 01, 2006, 03:16:20 AM »
Quote from: ""Deborah""
And Mr and Mrs John Doe approve cause it keeps them safe from the 'helluns'. And, I disagree, the average American still knows nothing about the industry. Take a survey in your community.
;

Great post Deb. I dont live in your part of the world and when i am there this is hardly a polite dinner party topic so i have never asked, but do people really think that this industry keeps them safe from "helluns". I could understnad if they felt that these damn kids need a kick in the pants etc because you hear this everywhere. But given that the kids who go to these places are usually minors are they really feared by the general populace? Or do people imagine that these schools are much more caring and "therapudic" than they are?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
n case you\'re worried about what\'s going to become of the younger generation, it\'s going to grow up and start worrying about the younger generation.-Roger Allen

Offline psy

  • Administrator
  • Newbie
  • *****
  • Posts: 5606
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://homepage.mac.com/psyborgue/
Qualities of Activism
« Reply #23 on: November 01, 2006, 04:02:09 AM »
Quote from: ""Oz girl""
Quote from: ""Deborah""
And Mr and Mrs John Doe approve cause it keeps them safe from the 'helluns'. And, I disagree, the average American still knows nothing about the industry. Take a survey in your community.
;
Great post Deb. I dont live in your part of the world and when i am there this is hardly a polite dinner party topic so i have never asked, but do people really think that this industry keeps them safe from "helluns". I could understnad if they felt that these damn kids need a kick in the pants etc because you hear this everywhere. But given that the kids who go to these places are usually minors are they really feared by the general populace? Or do people imagine that these schools are much more caring and "therapudic" than they are?


It's a culture of fear.  You create a boogie man to scare people into buying what makes them "safe".  Commonly, this phenomenon is known as FUD (fear, uncertainty, doubt).  Programs scare parents into believing thier kids will end up dead-insane-injail and they fork over the dough to "fix" the kids.  Whether they believe it or not at the beginning, after the kids start "acting out" in program, they usually fall for it, and at the same time are glad they don't have to deal with it.  It's the same principle of any government contractor: make sure a "problem" exists so you can keep "fixing" it.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
Sue Scheff Truth - Blog on Sue Scheff
"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Qualities of Activism
« Reply #24 on: November 01, 2006, 10:40:12 AM »
programs like wwasps go even beyond fear based marketing and high pressure sales tactics.. they are a cult. the parents after going to seminars think they are helping kids. they all think they are saving the world. its not just about fear, but about an irrational expectation of a robotic like kid. stepford kids is what they are after, so there is a degree of selfishness to parents who want to see their kid change... even when there really isn't anything wrong with them. some parents just dont like their kids they way they are.

wwasps is a cult, they have their fanatics, they are organized and have lots of money and use it to shut people up by force. parents think its great but its nothing new. i was watching this show on exorcism and evnagelicism last night, there are peopke who believe in exorcisms. they showed a church and this 'trainer' was doing it to people and through the power of expectations and his psychological games they played into it. it reminded me of the seminars at wwasps. stupid fools giving up control of their own mind because they can't deal with the upheaval the trainer tries to instigate in your own head. too many people have given up control of their own thoughts and mind and succomb to our society's version of group think. i agee with the above poster's description for sure.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Qualities of Activism
« Reply #25 on: November 02, 2006, 06:48:26 AM »
i agee with the above poster's description for sure. and the one before that.
these places create issues, ignore existing ones if they're not makin' it worse.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
names of people involved in fucking up your kid
« Reply #26 on: November 03, 2006, 01:07:18 PM »
Lon, you the machine making man, woodbury

http://www.lymesite.com/CEDU%20resource ... ementf.htm
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Qualities of Activism
« Reply #27 on: November 03, 2006, 01:24:40 PM »
Don't go poking around that site unless you want hot rage.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Bluechair666

  • Posts: 11
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
????
« Reply #28 on: November 03, 2006, 02:22:23 PM »
What is CEDU?

I volunteer as the spokesperson, really. I am quite articulate, educated and a Straight escapist. Yeah baby, I'm a Cop Out, and a Misbehaver of the Highest order (puff puff). But I don't think it will do any good to say anything anymore. I personally propose that we decide on a time and place, all meet up at once, and go kidnap Sembler. Then, his wife has to pay back every cent of every parent's money that ever had a child in the Program, or we do what angry people really want to do, and then when she runs out of money, the government of every state that allowed a Program to operate within its borders continues to pay until ALL the monies are returned. And that should be our only demand. Financially ruin him, and everyone like him, because we the people said so, or pay the consequences. Now. Of course, we better get guns to back up our words, because those people are protected by people with guns, and basically we wouId all just get shot, so really, do you think this shit is ever going to change? Don't get me wrong, I am Full On the Real Deal motherfuckers, but I just don't think any of you have the balls (ovaries) to actual do anything but talk.
So, I personally am getting the fuck out of America as quickly as I possibly can, because these programs are just the tip of the iceburg kids, and there are far worse things about to happen, soon. I have little hope for the situation, short of Divine intervention, or contact with extraterrestrials. Now, if we could get the aliens on our side, all those suit wearing office working pussies that are running the world might actually listen to us. And believe me they are real. The truth IS out there! I saw it for myself, and I see clearly the people that are keeping it from us. You cannot convince or wait for or even trust Them to do what is right, or They would already have done it.
So, here it is. The call to arms. I Invoke the true God given right of all free men and women who are the children of the Earth to protect themselves from physical or psychological harm. The American Government and every organization that it supports or draws strength from is now our official declared enemy, and is a cancer that must be cut from the body of the World, before it spreads further. Yes, this is treason, and I want you all to spread the word, really. Just start saying to everyone "The time is now for us to overthrow our government, are you with us or against us?" I mean it. Coworkers, people in the checkout line, police officers, your mom, anybody. If they say they're with us, then point them to this site, and tell them to await instructions, if they say they are not, well, you probably better tell them you were joking, but try and trick them into giving you their name so we can enter it into OUR data base. I also very much suggest that if any of you have any contacts in any foriegn nations that could help us out with weapons, then get them on the horn.
Time has come, you are called out, now what?!
(silence)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
ree your mind, and your ass will follow. George Clinton

Kill the body, and the head will die. Hunter S. Thompson

Cast not thy Pearls before the Swine. Jesus

Offline Bluechair666

  • Posts: 11
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Ha!
« Reply #29 on: November 03, 2006, 02:58:40 PM »
That's what I thought. I was just kidding anyway (shhh...not really). Get over it, and move on. The aliens are real though.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
ree your mind, and your ass will follow. George Clinton

Kill the body, and the head will die. Hunter S. Thompson

Cast not thy Pearls before the Swine. Jesus