Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > Hyde Schools

i'm an incoming senior....to parents interested

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Anonymous:

--- Quote from: ""billy pro"" ---I've given tours to families who ask some of the kids that hate hyde the most what they thought. They didn't lie. But they weren't obnoxious or childish about it. They were like "I don't like it, but i know it's good for me" or "i'd rather be somewhere else" or "i'm looking at other schools for next year" or something like that. But many of you "guests" on this board are the type of kids like Matt Mumford who would yell as I pass with them "Don't send your kid here!" or "Turn back now!" or "Get out while you can!"

--- End quote ---


Billy,

Ursus probably goes under a pseudonym in an attempt to maintain the focus on the issues, as distinguished from personal attacks from those who are uncomfortable facing the issues.  

I find myself comparing your honesty and objectivity to Matt Mumford's. Is Matt in London with you and the Hyde gang? This is a purely informative question, and not meant as a personal attack. Really, I am sympathetic to you. I remember that when my college roommate's mother heard that I was fresh out of Hyde and said to me "bad school," I came to Hyde's defense. You might take a look around this forum for my opinion of Hyde now.

Can I pick your brain? What are your thoughts on peer-enforced punishments and peer-enforced correction of "attitudes"?  

Mike

Anonymous:

--- Quote ---I find myself comparing your honesty and objectivity to Matt Mumford's. Is Matt in London with you and the Hyde gang? This is a purely informative question, and not meant as a personal attack. Really, I am sympathetic to you. I remember that when my college roommate's mother heard that I was fresh out of Hyde and said to me "bad school," I came to Hyde's defense. You might take a look around this forum for my opinion of Hyde now.

Can I pick your brain? What are your thoughts on peer-enforced punishments and peer-enforced correction of "attitudes"?  

Mike
--- End quote ---


No, Matt was not in London with us. He was kicked out earlier in the yer. If by "peer-enforced punishments" you mean something along a senior on a wing telling his wing that we're getting up at 5:30 the next morning to clean (an example of something I've done), it depends. Of course, there's the possibility of someone being spiteful. It's happened to me, I think. It's interesting, for break Mr. Rigney assigned all the seniors to read a book called "Difficult Conversations". Mostly stuff I already knew (there were many Hyde-ish parallels) but reworded to make me understand better. One point brought up was that one can not assume someone's intentions. As sure as we are about them. I'm struggling with my stance on that, but the book's right next to me and it was a thought. On peer-enforced punishment, umm...I feel there's a spectrum of appropriateness and that there needs to be an initial trust that we're all looking out for each other's bests and that's all of our motivations. Of course that's not true though. That trust will be violated, just like your best friend violated your trust one time...but eventually was forgiven. I've been skeptical of some enforcements, as some have questioned mine. When I see something I'm sketchy about, I'll either not be involved or help the person enforcing an accountability and then talk to them afterwards that I disagreed or how they could do it differently UNLESS i grossly disagree, then I pull the person aside (such as "George"(fake name, real person) on my wing has trouble with his highly immature higly energetic-when-he-doesn't-take-his-medication frehsman roommate on my wing. good kid. i like him. but he can get on one's last nerve rather quickly. a couple of times, i've seen "George"'s anger get the best of him and have seen him try to give an accountability where I grossly disagreed. in that case i intervene, ask "George" if i can talk to him for a minute outside. i get him to cool off, calm down, and take another look at the situation such as: his role, his roommate's role, and where his anger is playing the role of enforcer. then we go back in, talk it out, and reevaluate it. and it's fine. so to answer your question (sorry, i go on tangents), it really does depend on the circumstances and my judgment of it. if it's not a HUGE deal, i'm not going to cut down someone's leadership. if someone's arguing over 25 push-ups for being late to in-dorms(i've been guilty of that), and the person giving the accountability seems to have just happened to handle it a different way, i'm going to support him/her in that and then talk to them afterwards.
on peer-assessed evaluation of attitudes...i see it as SOMEONE else(as in another person over the age of maybe 13-14) seeing something in me. like i've said before, too many people take it as a personal attack. even if it is, i stop and look at it. if it MIGHT have some truth in it, i think about it later. then i either take it on or let it go. but i dont' usually get disgruntled and pissed off because someone thinks i have a bad attitude. even if their intentions are totally off, it could still be true. message and messanger. you know the saying. i know, it's hard. sometimes i struggle with it as well.
let's pick away. because if anything i say can clarify what we really do here(especially now, remember this place(i mean woodstock) is SO much different this year than the other years, as i've stated before. and many really need to open their thoughts about a bit more under this new circumstance. i've had to as well.).
btw...europe was awesome. although i'm a bit jetlagged and underslept, it was a fun trip. i still can't believe i wen to the friggin top of the eiffel tower.
- Bill Procida '07

Antigen:
Sorry, guys, formatting issues will be properly resolved later tonight.

Anonymous:

--- Quote from: ""bill procida"" ---
--- Quote ---I find myself comparing your honesty and objectivity to Matt Mumford's. Is Matt in London with you and the Hyde gang? This is a purely informative question, and not meant as a personal attack. Really, I am sympathetic to you. I remember that when my college roommate's mother heard that I was fresh out of Hyde and said to me "bad school," I came to Hyde's defense. You might take a look around this forum for my opinion of Hyde now.

Can I pick your brain? What are your thoughts on peer-enforced punishments and peer-enforced correction of attitudes"  

Mike
--- End quote ---

No, Matt was not in London with us. He was kicked out earlier in the yer. If by "peer-enforced punishments" you mean something along a senior on a wing telling his wing that we're getting up at 5:30 the next morning to clean (an example of something I've done), it depends. Of course, there's the possibility of someone being spiteful. It's happened to me, I think. It's interesting, for break Mr. Rigney assigned all the seniors to read a book called "Difficult Conversations". Mostly stuff I already knew (there were many Hyde-ish parallels) but reworded to make me understand better. One point brought up was that one can not assume someone's intentions. As sure as we are about them. I'm struggling with my stance on that, but the book's right next to me and it was a thought. On peer-enforced punishment, umm...I feel there's a spectrum of appropriateness and that there needs to be an initial trust that we're all looking out for each other's bests and that's all of our motivations. Of course that's not true though. That trust will be violated, just like your best friend violated your trust one time...but eventually was forgiven. I've been skeptical of some enforcements, as some have questioned mine. When I see something I'm sketchy about, I'll either not be involved or help the person enforcing an accountability and then talk to them afterwards that I disagreed or how they could do it differently UNLESS i grossly disagree, then I pull the person aside (such as "George"(fake name, real person) on my wing has trouble with his highly immature higly energetic-when-he-doesn't-take-his-medication frehsman roommate on my wing. good kid. i like him. but he can get on one's last nerve rather quickly. a couple of times, i've seen "George"'s anger get the best of him and have seen him try to give an accountability where I grossly disagreed. in that case i intervene, ask "George" if i can talk to him for a minute outside. i get him to cool off, calm down, and take another look at the situation such as: his role, his roommate's role, and where his anger is playing the role of enforcer. then we go back in, talk it out, and reevaluate it. and it's fine. so to answer your question (sorry, i go on tangents), it really does depend on the circumstances and my judgment of it. if it's not a HUGE deal, i'm not going to cut down someone's leadership. if someone's arguing over 25 push-ups for being late to in-dorms(i've been guilty of that), and the person giving the accountability seems to have just happened to handle it a different way, i'm going to support him/her in that and then talk to them afterwards.
on peer-assessed evaluation of attitudes...i see it as SOMEONE else(as in another person over the age of maybe 13-14) seeing something in me. like i've said before, too many people take it as a personal attack. even if it is, i stop and look at it. if it MIGHT have some truth in it, i think about it later. then i either take it on or let it go. but i dont' usually get disgruntled and pissed off because someone thinks i have a bad attitude. even if their intentions are totally off, it could still be true. message and messanger. you know the saying. i know, it's hard. sometimes i struggle with it as well.
let's pick away. because if anything i say can clarify what we really do here(especially now, remember this place(i mean woodstock) is SO much different this year than the other years, as i've stated before. and many really need to open their thoughts about a bit more under this new circumstance. i've had to as well.).
btw...europe was awesome. although i'm a bit jetlagged and underslept, it was a fun trip. i still can't believe i wen to the friggin top of the eiffel tower.
- Bill Procida '07
--- End quote ---


Bill,

Let me start by saying how impressed I am by your courage. You?ve come right into the lions? den. I?m also impressed by Hyde?s courage in allowing you to participate in this forum. Respectfully, then, I submit my rejoinder.

My immediate impression is that your results are skewed. From the point of view of criminology and penology, your examples of peer-enforced punishment are at the bottom of the ladder; they do not even entail legal action. Similarly, your examples of peer evaluations (?truth over harmony?) present them in the best light. But I'll play along, because a strong case can be made even against them.    

I would characterize 'truth over harmony' as a desire for obedience, which expresses itself in various forms of intensity: screaming, cursing, reviling, and least of all rebuking. Its essence is a violent and combative emotion, even when the result does not inflict damage.
   
Consider your example of rebuke. This belongs to the class of transgressions in which there is no action. You might suppose that I, in urging you not to rebuke a fellow student, am moved by the shame and the pain that your words would cause him when he heard them. But I am concerned not only with the one who is rebuked, but also with the one who rebukes, who should not be intolerant and hot-tempered. My concern is ethical, control and catharsis of one?s emotions, as well as practical, prevention of harm to one's fellow man; it is, therefore, concerned with the confronter as well as the confronted.

It is along such lines that I justify a general prohibition against presuming to rebuke a fellow student. And although you will not be punished for it, still such conduct indicates an exceedingly bad disposition. One should rather practice forbearance in all everyday matters. For the intelligent realize that these are trivial things and not worth seeking confrontation over. This prohibition is thus designed not only to promote courtesy or civility to others, but also to cultivate moral perfection, to develop a transcendent perspective which makes pettiness and arrogance self-evidently foolish.

I would argue a fortiori against peer-enforced punishments that do not consist of words only. Getting back to your reply, you say that sometimes you question the fairness of this or that punishment. Such criticisms are more local and superficial than I hoped for. Actually, I was hoping that you could explain to me the necessity for peer-enforced punishment at all. Of what value is it to the child who punishes? To the child who is punished? As a parent, I would be deeply troubled by the knowledge that my child was being educated to mete out punishments to his peers?or to accept punishments from his peers, for that matter.

Mike

Ursus:
By getting kids to focus on the "local and superficial," they are stifling focus on the bigger and broader picture.  I have always found it most remarkable that, not only is the impetus to nurture critical thinking utterly absent at Hyde, it is downright squelched when but a hint dares venture forth...

Oh, yeah, what am I talking about...

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