Provo Canyon, my brother, and our drastic parents

[Anonymous]

I just need some advice. I has the unfortunate experience of
Provo Canyon School back in '99. Investment, Obs, PI's (physical injections), IPs (infraction points), line structure, class IIs and up, okay it was awful. I saw kids thrown to the ground and railed on. I saw kids tied up in straight jackets, locked in a freezing cold little room, strapped to a cot with cuffs on each corner. it was horrific.

Problem is this: I'm twenty three now. My younger brother is 15. He's getting into some trouble. He knows what I went through, but I don't think he understands the extent, or knows how drastic our parents can get sometimes.

He has already been caught on mushrooms- he was lost without his shoes and ended up having to go to the emergency room because he ate too many. i live far away, and didn't hear about this it until more than a week after it happened.

Our parents are divorced and my brother divides his time between them. When our dad smelled pot coming from my brother's room, he actually drove my brother to the airport and bought two seats to Utah, my brother's a one-way ticket. My brother broke down and told our dad he didn't think he deserved it. Our dad called our mom, and she flipped. She would not allow that to happen to her son. She had no idea our dad had done this and she was very angry that he did.

Whenever she talks to me, she tells me that she would hire the best lawyer to keep my brother from having to go through that. She tells me she would do whatever it takes, even if that means driving down to Utah herself and dragging the kid out in her arms.

Here's the thing: Both my parents really don't seem to care about what happened to me there. i've since gave-up, but whenever I used to talk to them, or just try to tell them about the abuse, they'd get these dumb, blank expressions on their faces and just dismiss it with, "well, we let you come home. we could have kept you there for two more years until you turned eighteen, how would you have liked that? you should be thankful to us."

I was there for seven months.

I love my brother. I would never, ever want to see him sent away, and I, too, would do whatever it takes to keep it from happening, but I just feel like, I don't know. It's not really jealousy, it's more just that I feel like my parents care more about and are more tolerant of him than they ever were for me. It REALLY bothers me because they are so caught up in their own divorce-drama (even twelve years after the divorce itself) that they don't even notice how this makes both me and my brother feel. it bothers my brother a lot.

today I tried to talk to my mom about it, and I asked her if she understands why it hurts me that she is so adamant about keeping my brother from being sent away. She just didn't get it. After mimicking me, and telling me I was crazy, she finally got curious and asked why in the world would that hurt me?
and I said "because i'm your kid too."
and she said "yeah, but you're twenty-three!"
and I said "I wasn't always twenty-three."

I was fifteen when I was sent to Provo. she didn't say anything so I just left.

I don't know what to do. I just know this feels rotten.

[Nihilanthic]

I just need some advice. I has the unfortunate experience of
Provo Canyon School back in '99. Investment, Obs, PI's (physical injections), IPs (infraction points), line structure, class IIs and up, okay it was awful. I saw kids thrown to the ground and railed on. I saw kids tied up in straight jackets, locked in a freezing cold little room, strapped to a cot with cuffs on each corner. it was horrific.

Problem is this: I'm twenty three now. My younger brother is 15. He's getting into some trouble. He knows what I went through, but I don't think he understands the extent, or knows how drastic our parents can get sometimes.

He has already been caught on mushrooms- he was lost without his shoes and ended up having to go to the emergency room because he ate too many. i live far away, and didn't hear about this it until more than a week after it happened.

Our parents are divorced and my brother divides his time between them. When our dad smelled pot coming from my brother's room, he actually drove my brother to the airport and bought two seats to Utah, my brother's a one-way ticket. My brother broke down and told our dad he didn't think he deserved it. Our dad called our mom, and she flipped. She would not allow that to happen to her son. She had no idea our dad had done this and she was very angry that he did.

Whenever she talks to me, she tells me that she would hire the best lawyer to keep my brother from having to go through that. She tells me she would do whatever it takes, even if that means driving down to Utah herself and dragging the kid out in her arms.

Here's the thing: Both my parents really don't seem to care about what happened to me there. i've since gave-up, but whenever I used to talk to them, or just try to tell them about the abuse, they'd get these dumb, blank expressions on their faces and just dismiss it with, "well, we let you come home. we could have kept you there for two more years until you turned eighteen, how would you have liked that? you should be thankful to us."

I was there for seven months.

I love my brother. I would never, ever want to see him sent away, and I, too, would do whatever it takes to keep it from happening, but I just feel like, I don't know. It's not really jealousy, it's more just that I feel like my parents care more about and are more tolerant of him than they ever were for me. It REALLY bothers me because they are so caught up in their own divorce-drama (even twelve years after the divorce itself) that they don't even notice how this makes both me and my brother feel. it bothers my brother a lot.

today I tried to talk to my mom about it, and I asked her if she understands why it hurts me that she is so adamant about keeping my brother from being sent away. She just didn't get it. After mimicking me, and telling me I was crazy, she finally got curious and asked why in the world would that hurt me?
and I said "because i'm your kid too."
and she said "yeah, but you're twenty-three!"
and I said "I wasn't always twenty-three."

I was fifteen when I was sent to Provo. she didn't say anything so I just left.

I don't know what to do. I just know this feels rotten.

If your mom doesnt get why she shouldnt send your brother to a torture-center, then I seriously think you need to kick the shit out of her.

Im sorry, unless shes just dense and doesnt belive you, she has no excuse. If shes dense, then just print out all the shit about programs, and PCS specifically, and give it to her.

Hell, look at the article I helped make a while ago: http://www.askquestions.org/articles/teens/

[grapeape]

Dear Former PCS kid:  your feelings are normal. and make perfect sense.  Even though your mom not  be open right now to face the enormity of what she and your dad did to you at least she has learned enough to stand up for your brother (although maybe as part of the divorce drama she is opposed to anything he does; i.e., if he wanted to keep him out maybe she would want him to go to the school).  When parents are caught up in their drama the kids pay the big price.  Remember that most parents are pretty narcisstic and in their minds everything is about themselves.  That is why some pretty shitty decisions are made that have nothing to do with what is actually in the kid's best interest (been there; done that and learned from it).  Please support your mother's decision to keep your brother out and maybe little by little she will come around to understanding the affect it had on you.  I am sorry you had to go through that as a child but now you have to be more mature and intelligent than your mother has been in the past.  She is so eaten up with anger, resentment, fear and guilt that there is no room for much else.  I hope she can get through that with therapy or whatever so that one day she will be able to really listen to you.  Good luck!

[Anonymous]

I think what you have here is the difference between the parents you wish you had and the parents you really have.

It's easier, in a way, when your parents are narcissistic monsters that could be about to send your brother away--and who did send you away--than when one of your parents has obviously caught clue, but only some clue.

Black and white is easier than gray.

Your mother is not a decent enough mom and human being to give you a full and wholehearted apology and then pay for your therapy, or subsidize it as much as she can, or otherwise be supportive as you try to heal the holes that place burned in your soul.

And yet...your mother is a decent enough human being to not be willing to do to your brother what she did to you.

It's not that she loves your brother more.  It's that she made one hell of a mistake with you, deep down she knows it, but she's too damned selfish to admit the extent to which she was wrong and do whatever she has to to help you heal from her mistake.

It makes you feel funky because it feels like you're almost saying you want your brother to go through that place, too.  Which is the total opposite of what you do mean.

It's not how your mother's treating your brother.  It's not even how your mother is treating you.

What's probably making you the most uncomfortable is how complicated your feelings about your mother must be given that she's obviously selfish, narcissistic, not at all willing to take responsibility for what she did----and yet, bizarrely, you have to almost feel grateful to her for being committed to keep it from happening all over again to your little brother.

It's not black and white, and it jumbles all your feelings up, and that's uncomfortable as all hell.

Get therapy.  This isn't the pseudo insulting "Ooh, get help, man."  I'm saying that your mixed up feelings are completely normal and that a short course of therapy with a real-world, normal, ethical therapist could help you sort them out so that you can be more comfortable and make better decisions about how you want to deal with your family.

It's not that you'd be totally screwed without therapy.  I'm just saying therapy could severely shorten your long dark night of the soul. :-)

Julie

[Anonymous]

Maybe your mother might feel so horrible about what happened to you with her consent that the only way she can face it and try to make amends is to keep it away from your brother...which does not help your pain.  All too often people (especially parents) can't face the mistakes they have made...I truly think no one wants to screw up his/her kid.  I know that I sent my precious child to Majestic Ranch for four months, then went and got her after I started reading things on line that alarmed me.  I had no idea of what a hellish place it was.  It is hard to listen to her tell me about it, even today, because I feel so guilty and awful about what happened...I would NEVER have put her in that situation, if I had known what was really happening.  (She was getting out of control, but those bastards don't have the answers...abuse and cruelty are NOT effective teaching tools!)  I force myself to listen to her and re-assure her and accept what she tells me without making it about me and my agony at what I did to her (without meaning to)...it is tough.  Sometimes as parents, we try to make things better with our younger children (fix mistakes we might have made with the older ones)...not really an answer...but it seems your mom does feel remorse...it would be nice if she could admit this to you...as you say, you too are your child.  Hang in there, kid; you are precious, and you have a right to your feelings.