Interesting parallels between Hitler Youth and TBS programs.

[Anonymous]

On 2006-06-26 06:40:00, Three Springs Waygookin wrote:

"Lets examine the Hitler Youth Movement. For a bit of historical reference be reminded that the Hitler Youth Movement came about prior to WW 2 where young men were indoctrinated into the folds of the National Socialist Party at an early age. Many of these young men went on to fight against Allied forces in the latter years of the war. Many of them were killed, but a few distinguished themselves quite bravely in combat.



Rather tragic that children had to be utilized to further the goals of a megalomaniac like Hitler.



Here is a small piece from Wikpedia about the Hitler Youth. Go see it for yourself at the following link.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler_Youth



I find the similarities between TBS schools and the Hitler Youth Movement rather striking and at the same time disturbing.



I will only compare the school that I am familiar with directly, and this of course is Three Springs.



Three Springs residents are subjected to a stage system that gives them increasing rank and responsibility.



The Hitler Youth Movement has a rank system based on the German SS military rank system. This grants those who earn promotions increased rank and responsibilities.



Three Springs residents are required to submit to the standards of the program and follow directions without question.



Hitler Youth Members subjected to a military style discipline probably had the living shit beat out of them if they dared to disobey an order.



Three Springs residents participated in ceremonies to mark the passage from one stage to the next.



Hitler Youth members went through rites of passage ceremony to signify the advancement from one level of the Hitler youth system to the next.

http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/jufeier.htm



Three Springs residents are exposed to a forced conditioning of their behaviors via emotional and physical controls. The purpose of this conditioning is to gain complaince of the resident and make them more suggestible to the whims of the program.



Hitler youth members were brainwashed into blindly following Hitler into the very destruction of their own country at a horrible price to all involved.





I am sure someone can come up with more comparisons. Feel free to fly right at it, and by all means if you have applicable links feel free to add them to your post.



To conclude I often have wondered if the founders of TBS intentionally took a page from the Hitler Youth manual? I doubt they ever intended to do so, but the end results seem very much the same.



The hitler

To go to Journal of Applied Polymer Science go to http://www3.interscience.wiley.com and then journal search and put the journal number and year
-- Journal of Applied Polymer Science  Vol. 47, 1984

"

1)Was his REAL name "Hitler",or did he make it up?

2)Are there any people in Germany/Austria that still use the surname "Hitler" (Im not including any radical types,just people who really have that name)?

[Anonymous]

"To conclude I often have wondered if the founders of TBS intentionally took a page from the Hitler Youth manual?" is truly one of the most asinine questions, rhetorical or otherwise, ever written.


Did you ever look at public schools, where there is a level system (grades), increasing privileges at higher levels, rites of passage between levels ("moving up" ceremonies, graduations)?  
Or employment situations, with bosses/managers having power over the subordinates/peons/serfs.  Do it or don't get paid thus don't eat?
I suppose you prefer a classless society, with all people equal and having equal freedoms, rights and powers -- although it leaves open the question of leadership without reward >> recognition >> greater effective power >> >>so not all people equal in the end, doesn't it?

[Anonymous]

On 2006-06-26 07:33:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

On 2006-06-26 06:40:00, Three Springs Waygookin wrote:


"Lets examine the Hitler Youth Movement. For a bit of historical reference be reminded that the Hitler Youth Movement came about prior to WW 2 where young men were indoctrinated into the folds of the National Socialist Party at an early age. Many of these young men went on to fight against Allied forces in the latter years of the war. Many of them were killed, but a few distinguished themselves quite bravely in combat.





Rather tragic that children had to be utilized to further the goals of a megalomaniac like Hitler.





Here is a small piece from Wikpedia about the Hitler Youth. Go see it for yourself at the following link.





http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler_Youth





I find the similarities between TBS schools and the Hitler Youth Movement rather striking and at the same time disturbing.





I will only compare the school that I am familiar with directly, and this of course is Three Springs.





Three Springs residents are subjected to a stage system that gives them increasing rank and responsibility.





The Hitler Youth Movement has a rank system based on the German SS military rank system. This grants those who earn promotions increased rank and responsibilities.





Three Springs residents are required to submit to the standards of the program and follow directions without question.





Hitler Youth Members subjected to a military style discipline probably had the living shit beat out of them if they dared to disobey an order.





Three Springs residents participated in ceremonies to mark the passage from one stage to the next.





Hitler Youth members went through rites of passage ceremony to signify the advancement from one level of the Hitler youth system to the next.


http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/jufeier.htm





Three Springs residents are exposed to a forced conditioning of their behaviors via emotional and physical controls. The purpose of this conditioning is to gain complaince of the resident and make them more suggestible to the whims of the program.





Hitler youth members were brainwashed into blindly following Hitler into the very destruction of their own country at a horrible price to all involved.








I am sure someone can come up with more comparisons. Feel free to fly right at it, and by all means if you have applicable links feel free to add them to your post.





To conclude I often have wondered if the founders of TBS intentionally took a page from the Hitler Youth manual? I doubt they ever intended to do so, but the end results seem very much the same.





The hitler

To go to Journal of Applied Polymer Science go to http://www3.interscience.wiley.com and then journal search and put the journal number and year
-- Journal of Applied Polymer Science  Vol. 47, 1984

"

1)Was his REAL name "Hitler",or did he make it up?



2)Are there any people in Germany/Austria that still use the surname "Hitler" (Im not including any radical types,just people who really have that name)?"

http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node=Hitler

[Antigen]

On 2006-06-26 06:40:00, Three Springs Waygookin wrote:

To conclude I often have wondered if the founders of TBS intentionally took a page from the Hitler Youth manual? I doubt they ever intended to do so, but the end results seem very much the same.

The hitler

Gookin, you should talk to some of those aging Seedlings. I remember one gal talking about having had the 'priviledge' to clean Art and Shelly's mansion and having been told explicitly not to read the books on psychology and Hitler Youth that Art had there. She did anyway.

Here's a search link for mentions of hitler youth in The Seed Discussion Forum.

In a nutshell, I think that yes, some of the founders, proponants and designers of these programs were very much aware of the Hitler Youth and/or Korean brainwashing techniques they have been using. But most of the people involved are not concious of it. Going all the way back to the early days of the Seed and still to this day, when you ask a true believer about brainwashing, they laugh and tell you they don't feel brainwashed. The more things change the more they stay the same.

To my mind, the most troubling part of this question is why we're using these same techniques on suspected terrorists. We know from every indication--firsthand experience, research and common sense--that these techniques are not effective at yielding acurate, useful information nor are they good for rehabilitation. The only consistent 'benefit' seems to be that this is a dandy way to break a spirit and to change a person's (or group of people) very beliefs and even memories.

Being sleepy can impair someone's ability to do thier job.  People
can sleep at home and come to the job with sleepiness still in their system. The sleepiness can still be there long after the employee has slept. When someone is found to be sleepy on the job, they can claim that they went to sleep the night before.  The only solution to this problem is to ban employees from sleeping.

--Arthur Slabosky

[AtomicAnt]

One big difference between the Hitler Youth and modern behavior modification programs is that the Hitler Youth were enthusiastic volunteers.

I recently watched a program on the History Channel about Hitler Youth where they interviewed some former members. They said it started out like the Boy Scouts. It was like a big boys club, complete with camping and adding parades and military drills, including mock combat.

They also said they bought into the propaganda because they were impressionable youth. Coercion wasn't needed because the boys found it both fun and prestigious. They wanted to be there.

When these boys were thrown into combat near the very end of the War, they often did not know the extent of the danger in these assignments. There was a movie about a group that was sent to guard a bridge (I wish I could remember the name) and it wasn't until too late that some of them realized they had been abandoned by the real Army. Some gave their lives with devotional zeal, but others surrendered quickly and survived. Many were never issued working weapons.

In our day, we still see child soldiers only worse. There is that general in Africa that raids villages and takes the kids. Each night, the kids leave their villages and hide in the fields and forests to avoid capture. This guy runs his child army much like a cult. I'm trying to remember where I found the article.

[Anonymous]

Actually no they were not all enthusiatic volunteers. At some point it became national law in Germany that youths had to be involved with the Hitler Youth Programs.

[Oz girl]

The hitler youth kids also got to drink beer and go dancing and other fun things. Now that is a scary thought! children of a facist movement in the 30s were allowed more freedoms than the kids in programmes today!

[Anonymous]

On 2006-06-28 19:07:00, AtomicAnt wrote:

"One big difference between the Hitler Youth and modern behavior modification programs is that the Hitler Youth were enthusiastic volunteers.



I recently watched a program on the History Channel about Hitler Youth where they interviewed some former members. They said it started out like the Boy Scouts. It was like a big boys club, complete with camping and adding parades and military drills, including mock combat.



They also said they bought into the propaganda because they were impressionable youth. Coercion wasn't needed because the boys found it both fun and prestigious. They wanted to be there.



When these boys were thrown into combat near the very end of the War, they often did not know the extent of the danger in these assignments. There was a movie about a group that was sent to guard a bridge (I wish I could remember the name) and it wasn't until too late that some of them realized they had been abandoned by the real Army. Some gave their lives with devotional zeal, but others surrendered quickly and survived. Many were never issued working weapons.



In our day, we still see child soldiers only worse. There is that general in Africa that raids villages and takes the kids. Each night, the kids leave their villages and hide in the fields and forests to avoid capture. This guy runs his child army much like a cult. I'm trying to remember where I found the article."

Here ya go, AA.

The Night Commuters

Children are lucrative resources for the LRA rebels. The atrocities committed against these children are impossible to imagine: in captivity children as young as seven years old are tortured, beaten and raped. They are then forced to become rebel soldiers, sexual slaves, porters and labourers. Some are forced to kill, maim, beat or abduct innocent victims, including family members and neighbours, or to look on as these abuses are committed. Girls are used as domestic servants or forced into sexual slavery as LRA commanders? ?wives?. They are subject to rape, unwanted pregnancy and the risk of infection, including HIV/AIDS.

Child abduction is clearly a major security concern for northern Uganda. Desperately afraid of abduction, vulnerable children as young as four years old will walk from their homes or displacement camp to a large urban centre every night.

These ?night commuters? travel as far as 20km on a daily basis without any adult supervision subjecting them to a wide range of violence. They gather in schools, hospitals, district offices and NGO compounds - wherever they believe they can spend the night in safety. They settle to sleep in the open, where they are often abused and exploited.

This temporary night displacement has destroyed family and cultural roles, and has deprived an entire generation of children from a primary education. At the peak of the conflict, the UN estimated the number of night commuters in Gulu, Pader and Kitgum districts to be 40,000.

http://www.guluwalk.com/learn/

[Antigen]

I think there's a valid comparison to be made here, but it's not a direct, point by point parallel. History never repeats itself, but it always rhymes. The best book I've ever read about rank-n-file Nazis is My books page

Milton Mayer was a curious man. He was an American journalist of Jewish German heritage who converted to Quakerism then moved to Germany for the express purpose of getting to know some Nazis. He then wrote about them w/ eloquence, sincere respect, true affection and a gentle cautionary empathy. If you want to understand, so it doesn't happen again, I don't know of a better book than this one. If you want to understand all the spooky, crazy seeming behavior of the American government and their close friends, read this book. You don't have to buy it to read it. Almost any library will be happy to get a copy of it for you. But read it. I came away w/ a profoundly clarified understanding of the idea that Germany lost WWII, but the Nazi's won.
[/quote]

I think you can compare the drug war in tandem with the general pathologization of everything to the way the Nazis fixated on all but this mytical race of super humans from some remote mountain range in Central Europe. Even the level of pandering to the illiterates is strikingly similar. Somehow, the rabbal got the idea that Arian was a good thing, even though Arian means roughly the same thing as Semetic. And so they went about calling themselves Aryans while trying to wipe out the Semitic races and culture and calling it saving the world.

There's a difference in that one can cross over from drug free amarica believing drug war supporter to the other side w/ just a thought or even a nasty, unfounded rumor while you can't cross over from being German or Austrian to being Jewish or African. But you can cross over to being a Jew lover or a nigger lover, and by the same means; just a thought or even a nasty unfounded rumor. How do you suppose a bunch of Hitler Youth boys might treat a suspected or proven Jew lover?

That's what we were and are who land up in these programs. We somehow became The Enemy® in our own parents' eyes and in the eyes of our communities. Or, I suppose it might be closer to say that they believed we had become posessed of the enemy and they had to go to extraordinary lenghts to save us from ourselves.

I suppose you could make a closer comparison between programs like DARE and Citizens On Patrol police assisted block monitoring programs and the way the Nazi party went about garnering influence. But in our case, they're not enjoying anywhere near as much success. The troubling teen programs only ever snag about 1% - 2% of the potential market. And I suppose those would represent most of the true believers. Americans, besotted and bedazzled by tv gurus and distraction as we may be, still don't quite cotton to fascist ideas so readily as the long stratified Prussian cultures.

When cryptography is outlawed, bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl.
--
Anonymous . . . for obvious reasons

[Oz girl]

On 2006-06-29 04:20:00, Three Springs Waygookin wrote:

"The had the freedom to die in bloody heaps for their beloved fuherer. Not much of a better choice.

Our nada who art in nada, nada be thy name. Thy kingdom nada, thy will be nada as it is in nada. Give us this nada our daily nada and nada us our nada as we nada our nadas and nada us into nada but deliver us from nada; pues nada. Hail nothing full of nothing, nothing is with thee.
--Ernest Hemingway, American author

"

Yes of course. i was being glib!

[Oz girl]

I think that hitler in all his insanity believed he was doing a great thing for Germany. (ubermench etc)

If The seed WWASPS etc do in fact know they are using brainwashing techniques involved in the war crimes that you speak of, are they idealistic about it? Do they feel it is in the best interests of the kids? Or are they using these techniques in the purely cynical knowledge that they are just a money spinner?