The Who

[Anonymous]

Why does TheWho think 'its a little funny' when kids are sexually and physically abused?

[Anonymous]

It is becoming increasingly clearer as more data comes in that TBS and wilderness programs provide a safe haven for kids who are at risk, especially as compared to the public sector (but I think we all knew that).  It will be interesting (and a challenge, in my opinion) to come up with numbers that compares these figures to other areas such as boot camps and correctional institutes which seems to have a higher level of violence and lower success rates.

JJ, Could'nt make the second flight, ended up in Philly, set-up the second meeting we discussed....(6692,T)


NCES still has not released their data for 2004-2005 year..... as soon as it becomes availble I will add the figures in.


You can click on the program type to get more detail if needed.[/b]
__________________________________________________________________

July 1, 2000 thru June 2001   -------There were 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides   , X Restraint, 2,959 Total  

TBS ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 1 suicides,   0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 1 Total

Wilderness -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 2 Total

___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002   -------There were 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides   , X Other, 2,868 Total  

TBS ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides,   0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total

Wilderness -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total

___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003   -------There were 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides   , X Other, 2,846 Total  

TBS ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides,   0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total

Wilderness -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2003 thru June 2004   -------There were 1,437 Homicides and 1,285 suicides   , X Other, 2,722 Total  

TBS ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides,   0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total

Wilderness -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total

TBS - Therapeutic Boarding Schools
 NCES National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles (caica.org, isaccorp.org), posts and PM?s....  All deaths are verified thru local news articles.
X -- Incomplete or unavailable

The difference is that some or most of these children that enter into these programs do so against their will.  They also do not get sentenced into the program.  They did not have the opportunity to go to court and plead their case.  The behavior modification technique is abusive and should be against the law.  If a parent were to use this "technique" at home.  They would be charged with abuse.  The deaths that occur in these camps, academies, boarding schools could be prevented.  

Who is JJ?  Why did he miss his flight?

[Anonymous]

Who is JJ? Why did he miss his flight?

[TheWho]

Guest wrote:

The difference is that some or most of these children that enter into these programs do so against their will.

Yes, most kids would opt to continue down the path they are on and may not realize there is danger ahead.  How many kids come home and say “Mom, dad, I am struggling with life, heading down a destructive path and would like to get some professional perspective to help me get straightened out again”.  Parents are responsible for ensuring their children are safe and are on a healthy path.  They should be involved in all the decisions in their children’s lives until they become of legal age.

They also do not get sentenced into the program. They did not have the opportunity to go to court and plead their case.

You may be thinking of boot camps or juvenile homes.  The courts do get involved on some levels.  The courts typically don’t send kids to TBS as a mandatory requirement.  As far as court goes or pleading their case, I am not sure what this is referring to.  The court system is set up to address situations involving public laws.  They rarely get involved in domestic decisions in specific households.  This would be a huge mistake in my opinion.  Day to day decisions on how a parents chooses to raise their child should be independent from public discretion.  There are fringe and borderline cult groups, which flourish in the US, like nospank and others who try to get inside the home and dictate how to raise your child, but it is a huge mistake to allow public opinion, court systems, and religious groups etc. to dictate or determine what is right or wrong for each family.  These are personal and family decisions and should be kept this way.


 

The behavior modification technique is abusive and should be against the law. If a parent were to use this "technique" at home. They would be charged with abuse. The deaths that occur in these camps, academies, boarding schools could be prevented.

Again I think you may be referring to boot camps or Juvenile homes.  TBS's are Therapeutic and just the opposite of abusive.  They provide a safe environment for a child to grow and adjust.
The majority of the deaths have been prevented and these schools continue to work on improving their success with these children.  Although, compared with the public sector the TBS have proved to be extremely successful.
There are a few statistical matrices which have, so far, concluded this:

TBS, Wilderness as compared to Public sector

Entire Mental Health industry

Who is JJ? Why did he miss his flight?

Ha,Ha,Ha  Yes, JJ, why did you miss your flight? I am interested too.  You can respond as a “guest”, no one will know who you are !

[Anonymous]

The real question is:
Why does TheWho think 'its a little funny' when kids are sexually and physically abused? Don't you think that's disgusting?

[RobertBruce]

How many kids come home and say “Mom, dad, I am struggling with life, heading down a destructive path and would like to get some professional perspective to help me get straightened out again”.

Granted. But how many of the kids that are locked up in these places actually need to be there?

The courts do get involved on some levels. The courts typically don’t send kids to TBS as a mandatory requirement.

This is completly and utterly false. Kids are court ordered to these programs all the time. Many of them pretend otherwise or try and play with semantics but the facts in the matter remain the same.

Also where are you getting your current information regarding kids deaths? I'm looking for a link not a vauge answer.

[TheWho]

Granted. But how many of the kids that are locked up in these places actually need to be there?

You should clarify that we should not be recommending sending kids to anyplace where they lock the kids up.  When choosing a school for your children, get familiar with how discipline is handled, talk to  parents who had kids that went thru the process and ask lots of questions.  I am sure there are schools out there which lock kids up, but they are few and far between.

[Troll Control]

This is NOT FUNNY, TheWho!  What is WRONG with you?

Here's another Sleazy Response from TheWho about a sexual abuse victim:

Ha, Ha, Ha.............  Sometimes this is too funny!  You people will say anything to get attention or to manipulate... Ha, Ha, Ha...  Well, you know, sometimes a kid getting anally gang-raped is the best way to deal with immaturity!  You have to grow up some time.......Ha, Ha, Ha

This guy is SICK!

Yes, but he tries to portray himself as a "child advocate" which has become a synonym in the TBs industry for "child abuser"...

Anyone reading TheWho's nonsense should put it in context by reading his other posts, especially the ones where he says it's perfectly acceptable to "make up data"  :roll:

[TheWho]

Excellent point, Guest,  It is important to not take anyone’s word at face value when reading the internet.  You should read and try to get a feel for both points of view.  The best thing you can do for your family and child (specifically) is educate yourself as much as possible on the subject, talk to your child’s therapist (if they have one), school counselor.  If they recommend a specific school, do research on the school and talk to parents who have had kids graduate from the program.
Don’t be persuaded by people who say “all” schools are good or those who say “All” schools are bad.  This should be a red flag that they have an agenda.

[Anonymous]

I take my advice from parents who find children being sexually and physically abused 'a little funny', they usually show the most maturity when discussing placement.

[RobertBruce]

You should clarify that we should not be recommending sending kids to anyplace where they lock the kids up. When choosing a school for your children, get familiar with how discipline is handled, talk to parents who had kids that went thru the process and ask lots of questions. I am sure there are schools out there which lock kids up, but they are few and far between.

Again you're mistaken, you actually in this post go so far as to pretend parents would know more then the kids.

Don't talk to parents, most of the time they have no clue what the kids went through and wouldnt accept it if the kids told them.

Who, simply because a program doesnt have fences and chains in no way suggest the kids aren't locked up.

You have no frame of reference as you were never locked up in one of these places, as many of us were.

[TheWho]

You should clarify that we should not be recommending sending kids to anyplace where they lock the kids up. When choosing a school for your children, get familiar with how discipline is handled, talk to parents who had kids that went thru the process and ask lots of questions. I am sure there are schools out there which lock kids up, but they are few and far between.

Again you're mistaken, you actually in this post go so far as to pretend parents would know more then the kids.

Don't talk to parents, most of the time they have no clue what the kids went through and wouldnt accept it if the kids told them.

Who, simply because a program doesnt have fences and chains in no way suggest the kids aren't locked up.

You have no frame of reference as you were never locked up in one of these places, as many of us were.

This an example of what you will run into when gathering information (Red Flag).  Beware of people telling you who you should or should not talk to.  Talk to as many people as possible.

[RobertBruce]

So you're arguing that people seeking information should turn to those who have no clue what really goes on at these places?

 :roll:

That's not making a whole lot of sense. Why not just save yourself the trouble of seeking out parents and instead turn to some guy off the street who's never even heard of the program youre talking about.

You'd get the same amount of accurate information from either source.

[TheWho]

So you're arguing that people seeking information should turn to those who have no clue what really goes on at these places?

 :roll:

That's not making a whole lot of sense. Why not just save yourself the trouble of seeking out parents and instead turn to some guy off the street who's never even heard of the program youre talking about.

You'd get the same amount of accurate information from either source.

?

[Anonymous]

I take my advice from parents who find children being sexually and physically abused 'a little funny', they usually show the most maturity when discussing placement.

You should ask TheWho for advice, he thinks sexual and physical abuse is "a little funny".