The Who

[Anonymous]

every state has different rules as to what it takes to get a license.  different hours of work or supervision.  the level of supervision differs also.  i cannot quote each state.  MA requirement take about 2 years to complete.  you also have to take a test and present a case.  the state of georgia is ridiculus about licensing which has to do with the fact it has 150 counties that have to come into agreement before anything is decided.

HLA was founded by some CEDU people but they have never changed the program.  i do not ever remember it being held up as the cream of the crop except for Buchi.  however, the people you refer to at ASR left in 2003 if i remember right.  they have a new clincal director who like i said is clinical in his stance. see these are facts that never seem tobe taken into account.

the licensing issue will go on but likei said places, all treatment centers use so unlicensed staff.  Oh by the way i called my friend at ASR and was told they have 4 licensed staff 2 licensed social workers, 1 licensed drug addictions counselor and 1 licensed mental health counselor.  they have 3 or 4 counselors waiting for the next test.

well i am off...please keep some more open minds folks...i think the debate is important but let us not get so caught in trying to prove each other wrong that we forget what we are fighting for

[TheWho]

Deborah wrote:

You are off the mark here. This site exists to look at the "grey areas". If programs believe it is ethical to staff group "therapy" with unlicensed staff, then they need to disclose this to parents who are paying $6000/month and are under the assumption that their kid is being "treated" by licensed professionals. Do you have a problem with accountability. My god, that is the program mantra. Put the cards on the table and we'll see how they stack up.

Where did you hear that parents are under this impression that all the people are licensed?

[Deborah]

you accuse this man of splitting hairs when the truth is what i stated before.  most programs of any type use a certain amount of unlicensed therapists.  these people work under another licensed therapists license until they accumulate enough hours to earn their own.  deborah since you are so into facts check each states laws and find out what everyone has to do to earn these hours.  i have worked in public treatments centers where we only had 2 licensed people we worked under their licenses until we earned our own.  places love this fact because they can pay these people less until they earn their licenses.  and i am not only speaking about ASR or HLA type program i am talking about all treatment programs in the country.   so please stop fighting agiainst each other and try to figure out how to improve these paces rather than condemn them because frankly i feel they are here to stay.

In an open debate, this response would be inappropriate, and thrown out if I had any say.
State the law in Mass. How many unlicensed "therapist" are providing therapy at ASR and how many licensed therapists are providing supervision and billing insurance for those "professional" services? Those are the FACTS that discerning parents and advocates want to know.
I finally found the link to the staff, but I'm not in the mood to spend my time looking up their credentials, UNLESS you don't provide that information.
Here's the link.
http://www.parentcheckin.com/staff_pict ... D4F2D70%7D

Now, provide something meaningful to the discussion, rather than your opinions. The FACTS are what people are after.
And, btw, which programs have you worked for? In what capacity? Forgoing LAW, how many "residents" should a licensed professional supervise, iyo?

[Anonymous]

 so please stop fighting agiainst each other and try to figure out how to improve these paces rather than condemn them because frankly i feel they are here to stay.

I condemn them because they're misleading, unnecessary and dangerous.  There is no way to improve it.  They're based on confrontational approaches and coercive therapy.  That is an oxymoron and dangerous.  Therapy can't be coerced and if you try you'll do damage to the person rather than help.  I'm going to do everything in my power to make sure they become obsolete.  I may not succeed, but I'll damn sure try.  I couldn't live with myself advocating FOR any treatment that includes force or coersion.  It would have to be completely voluntary for me to even consider it.

[Anonymous]

Ya know, it's wasn't long ago that HLA was held out as the cream o' the crop program in the industry. Charging one of the highest rates for "treatment". Must be "good", ethical, unique; huh? It wasn't until the light was shown on HLA that the truth was reveiled. Let's shine the light on ASR. Full disclosure and transparency doesn't seem unreasonable. Might I add that HLA and ASR were both started by a staunch CEDU devotee and have continued with CEDU methods. What changes/improvements have been made? Just recently it was reported that condiments were withheld as punishment, among other things. I mean, how stupid is that? I can't even imagine putting my own kids on "bans" from condimentsj as punishment. What's the point, exactly? What's the "therapeutic" value added?  Can/will you address that?

Dead on.  The purpose is control and power.  It's part of a system of rewards and punishments, that when combined with the other techniques (isolation, LGATs etc.) serve to always remind the student that they have no control over what happens to them.

[RobertBruce]

Where did you hear that parents are under this impression that all the people are licensed?

hla claimed as much on their website. For 6000.00 dollars a month shoudnt parents expect everyone to be licensed? What are they paying for?

[TheWho]

I think you are doing the kids (you think you are helping) a huge disservice by ignoring their needs and bickering about isolation and LGAT, EST etc. which has nothing to do with many of  todays schools.  Get your head out of the past and lets start helping these kids out by improving the places where they live and the schools they are attending.  Work on regulation!!  Great?but spending time trying to tear places down just isn?t the answer folks?you are spinning your wheels?

Why not try to categorize the places and determine which are abusive and which are not and then focus on the ones that are not up to standard.  If you rattle the cage and expose the flaws, force regulation they will straighten up and make changes or get out of the business, this will eventually help the kids.  Beating up on parents may be fun for many of you but the losers at the end of the day are the kids who end up not getting the help they need.

[Anonymous]

Your opinions are meaningless, as they have always been- your constant bleating about "the help they need" is empty echoes, your statistics are fabricated, your trolls are obvious, and your entire train of thought an exercise in illogic.

For me, and probably a good many others on this forum, your constant whining has the reverse effect- the more you bitch about us doing something, the more you can guarantee that we're going to do it.

And you know what, Who? You get to watch. You get to watch every step of the way, with the exception of the stuff you're not allowed to see, as your precious ASR is slowly dismantled in a rising tide of regulators and lawsuits. If I can I'll get your daughter on board and you can enjoy the horror reaching a personal level.

Let the ownaj begin.

[RobertBruce]

I think you are doing the kids (you think you are helping) a huge disservice by ignoring their needs and bickering about isolation and LGAT, EST etc. which has nothing to do with many of todays schools. Get your head out of the past and lets start helping these kids out by improving the places where they live and the schools they are attending. Work on regulation!! Great?but spending time trying to tear places down just isn?t the answer folks?you are spinning your wheels?

So says you, then again weve already establsihed youve done nothing to help these kids so I guess you dont have room to talk.

Why not try to categorize the places and determine which are abusive and which are not and then focus on the ones that are not up to standard.

Ive yet to find one that isnt abusive.

If you rattle the cage and expose the flaws, force regulation they will straighten up and make changes or get out of the business, this will eventually help the kids.

Cindy we started on this years ago. Where have you been? Oh thats right doing nothing.

Beating up on parents may be fun for many of you but the losers at the end of the day are the kids who end up not getting the help they need.

This coming from the same guy who dismisses their deaths and denies their abuse ever took place.

All youve done is hurt these kids, dont preach to us who are actually doing something for them. So you dont approve of our methods? So what. Go off and try things your own way and stop wasting peoples time on here, just remember weve produced results, youve accomplished nothing.

[Anonymous]

I think you are doing the kids (you think you are helping) a huge disservice by ignoring their needs and bickering about isolation and LGAT, EST etc. which has nothing to do with many of  todays schools.  Get your head out of the past and lets start helping these kids out by improving the places where they live and the schools they are attending.  Work on regulation!!  Great?but spending time trying to tear places down just isn?t the answer folks?you are spinning your wheels?

Why not try to categorize the places and determine which are abusive and which are not and then focus on the ones that are not up to standard.  If you rattle the cage and expose the flaws, force regulation they will straighten up and make changes or get out of the business, this will eventually help the kids.  Beating up on parents may be fun for many of you but the losers at the end of the day are the kids who end up not getting the help they need.

Why not just keep informing anyone who will listen that this form of treatment, no matter how benign it seems, no matter how many claims that they're different and kinder, no matter how many name changes, staff turnover or new, state of the art crap they claim to have it's still based on a flawed and dangerous premise and is at best ineffective and at worst dangerous.   That seems to me to be a much more honest approach about this.  People are finally waking up.  Not al of them but maybe it'll touch the heart of someone who really can and will help to get the word out to mainstream America who seems to view adolescence as something to be feared and controlled at all costs.

[Deborah]

Deborah wrote:

Wah.  We're having a passionate debate and calling into question your statements about ASR. You certainly have the option to ignore anything that insults your sensibilities and just answer the questions. That would be a start. In program terms, you're 'manipulating' the debate by complaining about attacks. If you're waiting for everyone to speak to you in a certain way, this discussion is a waste of time. Just answer the questions and ignore the delivery. We're after FACTS, not your opinion of other posters. You could prove DJ wrong by providing links to the counselors/therapist's license. Every state provides this information. If it's not important to you, then just say so.

Ha,Ha,  no I?m not upset.  I think that is one of the problems with forums and emails.  It is difficult to get a sense if someone is upset or happy etc.  But I am not calling foul or feel picked on at all and not complaining, dont worry.

 

I could give a shit how you're feeling Who. Pretend you're in a court of law where "feelings" don't count. Just answer the questions. Only concerned with the FACTS. I'm actually quiet tired of your presumptions, your shadetree analysis of how others are feeling. Big whoop. What does that have to do with whether or not ASR is providing what they advertise and what you claim?

I am trying to answer your questions the best I can.  I am not going to research and provide links to peoples licenses.  I think , Deborah you would agree, the message should be that parents with kids going to ASR will ask for them and receive the same as I did.  The therapists are licensed and parents should ask to see their credentials (as I did) and have them loop back to their child?s home therapist.  Yes this is important!!
If this is done then I don?t see an issue.

Yep, parents need to do their own research. I'm not talking to those parents right now. I'm talking to a person who claims to be a parent, who claims to "know" the therapist was licensed. I'm asking you how you know this. Your perogative whether you answer or not. But taking their word, or the program's isn't wise. I don't care how many 'degrees' they have plastered on the wall.

How can any of us prove it?  It is what it is?that?s what she got, by her account and my account and her home therapists? account.

Okay, this may seem like a monumental task for you, but I assure you that the process of "proving" isn't that difficult. It does require some time. And none of us can prove anything without names, which you aren't willing to provide. Stalemate.

[TheWho]

Deborah wrote:

could give a shit how you're feeling Who. Pretend you're in a court of law where "feelings" don't count. Just answer the questions. Only concerned with the FACTS. I'm actually quiet tired of your presumptions, your shadetree analysis of how others are feeling. Big whoop. What does that have to do with whether or not ASR is providing what they advertise and what you claim?

I typically care how the other person feels and often inquire.  That is one of the many differences between us.  Yes, we are far from a court of law or you would all be sued for slander, Ha,Ha,.  Many times you or DJ accuse the school of not providing services or being license etc. we eventually prove you wrong.  My daughter received therapy from a license therapist.  Any parent sending their child there can check it out for themselves.  The truth will come out eventually, as people say here.

Yep, parents need to do their own research. I'm not talking to those parents right now. I'm talking to a person who claims to be a parent, who claims to "know" the therapist was licensed. I'm asking you how you know this. Your perogative whether you answer or not. But taking their word, or the program's isn't wise. I don't care how many 'degrees' they have plastered on the wall.

I know she was licensed because I checked it out, as other parents do and can do.  I went to a dermatologist a couple of years ago and had to go thru a procedure to have a mole removed.  The doctor who treated me was degreed I remember checking it out, can I remember the doctors name?  Dam if I can? does that mean he doesn?t exist or does not have a degree?  Should I assume I was treated by an unlicensed doctor and begin an investigation and start smearing the treatment centers in the area?  Should I also assume all the treatment centers in the US are suspect, hiring unlicensed people!!!
Or should we wait for the facts to come out??..?

Okay, this may seem like a monumental task for you, but I assure you that the process of "proving" isn't that difficult. It does require some time. And none of us can prove anything without names, which you aren't willing to provide. Stalemate.

No, I am not going to research the old documents and provide names for everyone here, its not the way it works.  Kids come on here and tell their story and no one asks for proof, video or photos.  We are exchanging information.

[odie]

Is there any point whatsoever to this thread? I'm a licensed therapist and sitting here ::bangin::  ::bangin::  ::bangin::  ::bangin::  ::bangin::

[TheWho]

Is there any point whatsoever to this thread? I'm a licensed therapist and sitting here ::bangin::  ::bangin::  ::bangin::  ::bangin::  ::bangin::

Round and round arguing and rehashing of the same topics, licensing, treatment, TBS?s, boot camps, abuse.  Can we lump TBS schools, boot camps, Wilderness, mental hospitals RTC?s all together and get a sense of the industry as a whole?  Can we apply the problems seen in bootcamps to boarding schools?  


Is there any requirement to having every employee of the TBS?s to be licensed.  Are other facilities/ state facilities held to this same requirement?

[Ganja]

Is there any point whatsoever to this thread? I'm a licensed therapist and sitting here ::bangin::  ::bangin::  ::bangin::  ::bangin::  ::bangin::

Not really... :lol:

Fwiw, I succeeded in getting TheWho to listen to Live at Leeds (by The Who) & Animals (by Pink Floyd) during this thread, but I'm not sure how much good it did him (her?).