Author Topic: Challenge for Wilderness Supporters  (Read 20689 times)

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Offline TheWho

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« Reply #225 on: June 26, 2006, 02:02:00 PM »
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Anon Wrote:
Because I disagree fundamentally with the idea of therapeutic communities

This shows we may never find a mutual agreement or neutral ground here.  I believe there are very good programs and abusive ones and we need to identify and separate the good from the bad and find a way to get this information out to the parents.
Telling parents they are all the same and all bad isn?t going to help their kid any, besides the fact I don?t believe it to be true.

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You just flat out ignore what you don't agree with.


I am sorry you feel this way, but it isn?t true.  I have modified my position here several times based on what I have learned here at fornits
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Offline Troll Control

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« Reply #226 on: June 26, 2006, 02:14:00 PM »
Well, The Who doesn't JUST ignore what he doesn't want to hear.  He LIES and MAKES UP "data" to "support" his views.

Look here for a progression of events over several days where The Who made up some data and got busted again for it in the end.  Note how his positions change 180 degrees rather than just admitting he was wrong.  He just makes up a new line of BS and then acts like he was saying that all along.  He truly is pathetic.

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On 2006-06-26 10:59:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:

"The Who today:

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"I just don?t think anyone can state how many professionals in the world agree with you, DJ. It is an impossible task, let it go. There is no way to support it, I don?t believe any one can."




The Who at the beginning of his little lying spree:

Quote

Posted: 2006-06-22 14:54:00  



"You had approx 130 people sign the petition well lets say 150 to give you the best edge. There are probably 10,000 professionals in the U.S. (I know you compared your position to the whole world, but I dont have time nor the inclination to humor you). So you have 1.5 % of the professionals sign the paper. So if you had 1.5 % ( that agree with you) that leaves 98.5% that don?t. I would call that an over whelming majority."




Ooops!  Just a little more lying in response to your other lies :lol:



YOU ARE PATHETIC.





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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #227 on: June 26, 2006, 04:19:00 PM »
Who, you say there is no isolation at ASR yet the supposed ASR employee states that there is and it is a problem.  Why is that?
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Offline TheWho

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« Reply #228 on: June 26, 2006, 04:30:00 PM »
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On 2006-06-26 13:19:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Who, you say there is no isolation at ASR yet the supposed ASR employee states that there is and it is a problem.  Why is that?"


They did?  I didnt see that, can you point it out to me?
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #229 on: June 26, 2006, 04:35:00 PM »
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=0#202448


I understand your comments about feeling isolated from the outside world. I do think that this tends to happen at ASR, despite our attempt not to allow it to. Kids do receive newspapers and magazines, and are allowed to watch some tv- including news, sports, and appropriate movies (no sex, drugs, violence). We often talk about current events in meetings to help the kids stay in contact with the "outside" world. They also have trips on weekends and during school breaks.

I do think it's easy to lose sight of what "normal" teens are doing and thinking. We challenge the students to be really self-reflective and take on an emotional maturity that many teens don't have. Their awarness of their emotions may make them feel a little isolated from their peers after graduation.
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Offline TheWho

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« Reply #230 on: June 26, 2006, 04:49:00 PM »
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On 2006-06-26 13:35:00, Anonymous wrote:

"http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=15966&forum=9&start=0#202448





I understand your comments about feeling isolated from the outside world. I do think that this tends to happen at ASR, despite our attempt not to allow it to. Kids do receive newspapers and magazines, and are allowed to watch some tv- including news, sports, and appropriate movies (no sex, drugs, violence). We often talk about current events in meetings to help the kids stay in contact with the "outside" world. They also have trips on weekends and during school breaks.



I do think it's easy to lose sight of what "normal" teens are doing and thinking. We challenge the students to be really self-reflective and take on an emotional maturity that many teens don't have. Their awarness of their emotions may make them feel a little isolated from their peers after graduation.

"


Hey, good point.  So this leads us to try to define isolation.  Some other programs have a room they place kids in for periods of time and call this isolation, I think it was called the "hobbit".  ASR doesn?t do this.  But I am sure the sheer distance from home would be considered isolation.  So yes, I agree, in that sense the children are isolated from family and the outside world.  If someone asked me if ASR places their kids in isolation.  The correct response, in my opinion, would be no they don?t.  Do they feel isolated?   I am sure some do.

I have gotten slammed in the past for trying to distinguish the two definitions.
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Offline Sarah Doorn

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« Reply #231 on: June 26, 2006, 05:00:00 PM »
I would like to commend Anon who wrote:

"They fuck with your instincts. They turn kids against each other on a level that you cannot comprehend. The kinds of stress these kids are under is absolutely unbelievable. You're ripped away from everything that ever made you feel safe and secure. I'm telling you the idolation, feeling like I wasn't part of the world anymore. When I tried to go back in my friends (who were all doing much worse things than I was) had all grown out of their stupidity and moved on to become productive, happy people. I never did feel like I fit back in. I couldn't fit in with other people either because of the intense experience I went through. I thought of that when the ASR employee said that the kids have a maturity level beyond their peers. That's true in one sense and false in another. I didn't have the opportunity to find my own way, I had it drilled and consequenced and phase dropped and started over into me, so I lacked that maturity but I had been through something that none of them could even begin to imagine and that gives you the kind of maturity that just feels old and tired."

I also believe that the emotional damage is the hardest to deal with. I know exactly what you're saying, for I have also struggled with the effects of being "Modified".  It really is disheartening and offensive to hear someone say "Oh, I thought I could come onto Fornit's and teach you guys something."  Or "You know you deserved to be there because your parents know you better than anyone."  What these posters, and my parents, will never know is what it's like to actually be there.  I was always destined to be a smart successful person, regardless of the bad choices I made as a child.  I work very hard, go to school, pay all my bills, and try to be respectful to everyone I come across because this is what life is all about.  Not because my programs "taught me how to do it."  I didn't complain when I had to clean, go to class, or take a time-out. Not all former students are society's trash who never grew out of their selfish ways; on the contrary, I would assume that many of us are as normal as any citizen, just trying to make it. I attended a TBS that is hardly ever mentioned here which may have people think that it is a "good" one, but as Anon said, the Modification methods are all alike, and this is what changed me for the worse.  I hardly post because it seems futile to try and get others to understand; unless they've been subjected to it for many many months.  I do come here to read posts and take what I can from them, and I will be the first to say that having a place where people will defend another survivor when they're called "crazy" or "lazy" or "messed-up," has made it much easier for me to feel like I belong in society, even though long-term "treatment" made it seem as though I did not.

Thanks Anon, and everyone here at Fornit's for expressing yourselves, if no one else is, I am listening.
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Offline TheWho

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« Reply #232 on: June 26, 2006, 05:16:00 PM »
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It really is disheartening and offensive to hear someone say "Oh, I thought I could come onto Fornit's and teach you guys something."


Sarah,  I think this quote was mine, what I meant was ?contribute and teach people about TBS?s.?  (my intent was to do good)  But as it turned out I learned much more than I have contributed here.
I apologize if it came off as pompous and offensive to you.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #233 on: June 26, 2006, 05:31:00 PM »
Thank you Sara.  You're comments came along today at the perfect time.  Just when I think no one gets it, no one sees the subleties of this you come along.  It's only been in the last few years that I've really been able to comprehend the depth of what happened to me.    I'm glad you're doing well.  I finally am too but it's been a long, hard road.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #234 on: June 26, 2006, 07:14:00 PM »
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On 2006-06-26 13:49:00, TheWho wrote:


Hey, good point.  So this leads us to try to define isolation.  Some other programs have a room they place kids in for periods of time and call this isolation, I think it was called the "hobbit".  ASR doesn?t do this.  But I am sure the sheer distance from home would be considered isolation.  So yes, I agree, in that sense the children are isolated from family and the outside world.  If someone asked me if ASR places their kids in isolation.  The correct response, in my opinion, would be no they don?t.  Do they feel isolated?   I am sure some do.



I have gotten slammed in the past for trying to distinguish the two definitions.

"


Yes, there was a room at Straight for that but that's not what I'm talking about.  I was never sent to that room.  I'm talking about the isolation from friends and family, from the outside world.  Losing all sense of reality and normalcy and adopting the beliefs of the school as my own.  The culture of fear that it bred.  Kids turning on one another and reporting things that they felt 'concerned' about in other kids.   It was nothing more than a snitch culture designed to keep everyone in a constant state of anxiety.  People are easier to mold that way.

As Sara said, you've never been on the inside of one of these places so you could not possibly begin to understand.  I, OTOH, have the ability to see this from the child's POV and the parents as I have been both.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #235 on: June 26, 2006, 08:50:00 PM »
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On 2006-06-26 14:16:00, TheWho wrote:

"
Quote
It really is disheartening and offensive to hear someone say "Oh, I thought I could come onto Fornit's and teach you guys something."



Sarah,  I think this quote was mine, what I meant was ?contribute and teach people about TBS?s.?  (my intent was to do good)  But as it turned out I learned much more than I have contributed here.

I apologize if it came off as pompous and offensive to you.

"


Who..you don't come off as pompous nor offensive...remember...you gotta live large for that. You do however...by the statements you make appear somewhat dimwitted...definately manipulative...but that is neither here nor there.

what I do find interesting is that even what you "meant" to say sounds utterly ridiculous.  How is it possible to "contribute and teach people about TBS's" unless you have been there yourself...as either a student...which you were not...or a staff...which you very well may be.

Yes...I'm well aware that you are now going to wax eloquent about your daughters experience and how that in turn makes you qualified to offer your opinion on TBS's but that is about as far off as me telling people what an Ivy League College is like because my parents both attended them.

And to say that you have actually "learned" something here on Fornits....WOW.

All I see that you have learned is how the industry needs to spin the facts so that it may further manipulate parents in even more subtle ways.

Please take the time to go back and re-read your postings...you'll see...I'm surprised that you aren't working in politics.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #236 on: June 26, 2006, 09:08:00 PM »
YEA, maybe THE WHO could go away and try his hand at politics. We did have a President who almost made a career out of defining the word "IS" remember?

And, THE WHO is offensive to many people: especially our children who were abused in these facilities. He lacks sympathy and empathy; because he MUST continue to spin his tale.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #237 on: June 27, 2006, 01:22:00 AM »
yes...theWho does lack sympathy and empathy and any attempts he has made at it have been insincere at best.

I am a program survivor also...however...I choose not to be offended by the Who as he's really not worth getting offended over.  I take his statements for what they are...

not much substance

and I realize that his intellectual capacity is really not what he purports it to be.  so...rather than be offended...I would prefer that he continues to write his offensive statements...because intelligent people reading this forum for information will see him for what he is...the idiots will always be duped...just like the old saying...

"a fool and his money are soon parted"

and the TBS industry sure has a nice slice of that economic pie.
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Offline Nihilanthic

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« Reply #238 on: June 27, 2006, 03:42:00 AM »
The Who is a troll, 100%, completely, no ifs ands or butts about it. When he fucks up, and someone reposts it repeatdly, and its as if he cant' see it, over weeks and weeks, its apparent he's either a troll, or brainwashed.

Either way, the effect is the same. Ignore him and hope he goes away.
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DannyB on the internet:I CALLED A LAWYER TODAY TO SEE IF I COULD SUE YOUR ASSES FOR DOING THIS BUT THAT WAS NOT POSSIBLE.

CCMGirl on program restraints: "DON\'T TAZ ME BRO!!!!!"

TheWho on program survivors: "From where I sit I see all the anit-program[sic] people doing all the complaining and crying."

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #239 on: June 28, 2006, 03:56:00 PM »
Good one TSW!!
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