Three Springs wilderness camps

[Anonymous]

What would you do if you were me?  I believe it is my responsibility to do the best I can (albeit sometimes it is inadequate) to help my children become socialized contributors to this thing we call "our society."  What should we do with "troubled teens?"

How exactly does shipping them off to strangers, cut off from all friends and family and complete isolation from the outside world?  How does this arbitrary set of rules that Three Springs seems to have (by the posting of more than one former counselor there) help a child socialize?

I have other children who are well adjusted - although, I'm certain you would question that as well.  In undergraduate schools with full academic scholarships and in post graduate.  No, that doesn't mean success - but it is a measure of some success for THEM.

I'm not questioning that, I'm questioning whether or not because your other child didn't choose to follow the path of academia and may have gotten into some trouble that means he's a failure in your eyes, in need of "treatment".

So I can sit on a board like this and bad mouth all the programs out there too.  I can tell every parent in my situation - your child will never learn.  Your doomed.  Give up!!!

I'm doing quite the opposite.  I'm posting about my experience with my children.  I've stated before that my ex and his parents and even some school officials were dead set on sending my oldest to a program when she was about 15 or 16.  She was a complete hellion, drove me nuts, scared the living shit out of me for a couple of years.  Somehow, without benefit of being shipped off, she's come through as most kids do.  She's now 21, fairly well adjusted and beginning her nursing career.  Her maturity surpises me constantly and I credit it with her being able to go through the hardships she created for herself by her behavior and learning from it.  To have sent her away and try and FORCE that on her wouldn't work and very likely would have damaged her more than what she was doing to herself, which was substantial.

How do you measure socialization?  Do you think that is one of the characteristics a program like TS is trying to accomplish?  Or should?  Aren't these the questions we should really be concerned about?  How do you measure that?

First do no harm.

[Anonymous]

There, now I've answered your questions, please answer mine.

I hesitate to disclose too many personal details.  

I didn't really ask you for any personal details.  Certainly nothing that could identify you or your daughter.  I'm mainly asking about the qualifications of the people she's with and how their treatment works.  I haven't attacked you in any way.  I'm honestly trying to understand the kind of thinking that goes into making a decision like this.  I just don't get it.

Our counselors and medical professionals prior to Three Springs was an extensive team involved in treatment.  To be sure, they were well qualified and we were highly involved and sought multiple opinions.  Likewise we sought their counsel about Three Springs.

So then what are the qualifications of the counselors at Three Springs?

How do I know if she's made progress?  Observation.  Behavior changes are evident and obvious.

How can you observe her?  Sure you can go for a scheduled visit but what is that going to tell you?  


 

By her own testimony, she is thankful to have had this opportunity and considers it to have saved her life.  She's not "happy" to be there - she is thankful and believes it was absolutely necessary.  No, she is not brainwashed.  She has emerged from her cocoon and is alive again.  She has spoken at a high school to parents about her journey and what she put her family through.  She doesn't want other teens to go through that.

Yep, been there done that.  Part of her may even believe that, I did after having it drilled and consequenced into my head for a couple of years but once I got back out into civilization I was lost.  It wasn't until years after that I realized the extent of the damage and what I had lost.

This is a residential treatment facility / school.  It is not a summer camp.  No, we do not call whenever we feel like it.  

Can you though if you chose to do so?  Could you visit unexpectedly and speak with your child privately if you requested?

Although, as I said, conferences can be called.  Children do make home visits, in later stages every month for 5, 6, 7, or 8 days - as more days are earned.  They are able to fly by themselves.  Parents visit the facility every month.

You're basing your 'observations' on once a month and a few monitored phone calls??


 

Obviously, there are times when private communication occurs without someone listening in.

Really?  When would that be?  Do you have to sneak to do that?

[Troll Control]

TSW...where is your published research and clinical trial results of what you'd do different...rather than sit on the sideline behind the keyboard and trash other programs...

I won't argue with what your experiences of done to you.  But you certainly are not projecting a mature, socialized adult who has the ability to contribute to our society.  Rather, you're acting like a bratty kid who wants to throw sand in the sandbox.

So, why should I listen to that?

Oh, lord, lady.  Where are YOUR clinical trials and research that show that Behavior Modifrying your kid in a lock-up is going to help her deal with sex abuse issues?

This is INSANE.

I have been a licensed therapist for ten years and never in my professional life have I ever heard of a "program success story," much less one from a lock-up in regard to a sex crime victim.  WTF were you thinking sending her for this brand of "treatment"?

[Anonymous]

Good lord, why do I keep replying to this shit...

You think that sending kids off to isolation and brainwashing socializes them? I don't want to live in any society you're a part of. The fact that you're allowed to breathe my precious oxygen is bad enough. What the hell were you thinking when you typed that? You honestly believe that's seriously going to help?

Your broad categorization of "troubled" teens is also fundamentally bullshit. In psychological reality, people are diagnosed according to actual behavior, not the idiocy you've made up.

And it's another false request for solutions, so I'll just go over them again:

Your kid hates you: Stop being an asshole.

Your kid is talking back to you: If you're seriously going to send him away for this, send yourself away instead.

Your kid is doing drugs: Hire a PI to find out his supplier, and get that sumbitch arrested. Rinse and repeat. Your kid'll get the hint.

Your kid has uncontrollable rage: Stop being an asshole, and greatly reduce pressure. Real therapy, from a real, local, therapist. Possibly medication if the cause is organic.

Your kid is doing crappy in school: He just doesn't give a shit anymore, and there's not much you can do about that. Some kids are just not cut out for academics, period. Deal with it. A hellhole is not going to help much- even if he's forced to get higher grades, he'll simply end up falling out of college later. Either that or he'll hate you enough to get a degree, make money, and then put it to use destroying everything you stand for.

Your kid masturbates to goatse: He's just taking after his old man.

Now stop pretending to be a human being and get your post-deleting ass off the forum.

[Anonymous]

Actually I kinda like watching them run around in circles.  Give them enough rope, they hang themselves.  For all to see.

[Sark]

Mr. Connery:  I'll take The Rapist for $400 Alex.

Alex:  That's Therapist, Mr. Connery.

[Anonymous]

Please answer those questions above.  I answered yours.

[Sark]

Please?  Wow.  That's so not like you.

Naw.... I think I'll just try to breath harder so I can use up more of that precious oxygen that whats-his-name thinks I don't deserve.  Hmmm...was his name Hitler?

Oh, yes...that's who I want to define "socialization" for me.

Yup...just like you, this is a fun way to waste some time and get enjoyment out of watching people swim in their own crap.

And no, it's not "lady"...it's Ed.

[Anonymous]

No, I've used please often in posting to you. I'm not MGDP or TSW or any of them.  I'm asking DIRECT, POINTED questions and you continually ignore them.

Now, please answer the questions.

[Anonymous]

See, it's easy to dismiss what someone says because of  the way they say it.  You can write those guys off as twisted or angry or vengeful or whatever else you want to call them, but you can't simply write off people who are asking questions and not personally attacking you.  It seems you're only course left is just to ignore them.  You obviously can't come up with a satisfactory answer.

[Sark]

No one gives a shit to the answers that are offered here.  Each person is standing in their own corner ready to throw punches at the other.

That's not engaging.  It's like watching cocks fight or dogs or whatever.  For the purpose of?  Drawing blood!  Because?  That's what you people enjoy watching.

This forum, from which I should remove myself - by the way - because who said so?  Was that Hitler also?  Oh geeeezzzzz.... Talk about control?  Talk about locking your mind up?   Talk about imprisonment?  Oh...I know...and I am the evil one....

Geezzz...I've been married longer than you all are old.  And I'm supposed to be impressed by your wisdom?

Sorry...don't buy it.

(Doing more work...whilst I await another reply to "Please" post my answers)....

[Anonymous]

No one gives a shit to the answers that are offered here.  Each person is standing in their own corner ready to throw punches at the other.

I do.

That's not engaging.  It's like watching cocks fight or dogs or whatever.  For the purpose of?  Drawing blood!  Because?  That's what you people enjoy watching.

I'm trying to understand what makes people like you send their kids away.

This forum, from which I should remove myself - by the way - because who said so?  Was that Hitler also?  Oh geeeezzzzz.... Talk about control?  Talk about locking your mind up?   Talk about imprisonment?  Oh...I know...and I am the evil one....

No one is making you leave.  They told you to, but you haven't been banned have you?

Geezzz...I've been married longer than you all are old.

I seriously doubt that.

[Sark]

There are so many "broad stroke" accusations that have been said of me here that do not represent me.

It is that one-sided, unbalanced view (sure, in my opinion) and QUICK to judge bull-shit that tells me this forum is not a safe place.  I mean, come on...telling me I don't deserve to breath the same oxygen?  Enjoying giving someone enough rope to hang themselves?  That's crap...and you know it.

Your experiences are yours.  They've certainly molded you into who you are!!!  And I don't have to like it...but whatever.

My experiences, are, likewise MINE!  Deal with it!!!!!!!!!  Grow up!!!!!

And, I don't have to defend it to YOU!

You are polarized.  Narrow in your thinking.  And unable to accept there may actually be other "truths" which you cannot accept.

That's just as bad as some who claim the Moral Majority is a dangerous thing!  Hey...welcome to fucking democracy!!!!

[Troll Control]

There are so many "broad stroke" accusations that have been said of me here that do not represent me.

It is that one-sided, unbalanced view (sure, in my opinion) and QUICK to judge bull-shit that tells me this forum is not a safe place.  I mean, come on...telling me I don't deserve to breath the same oxygen?  Enjoying giving someone enough rope to hang themselves?  That's crap...and you know it.

Your experiences are yours.  They've certainly molded you into who you are!!!  And I don't have to like it...but whatever.

My experiences, are, likewise MINE!  Deal with it!!!!!!!!!  Grow up!!!!!

And, I don't have to defend it to YOU!

You are polarized.  Narrow in your thinking.  And unable to accept there may actually be other "truths" which you cannot accept.

That's just as bad as some who claim the Moral Majority is a dangerous thing!  Hey...welcome to fucking democracy!!!!

funny how all these strugglingparents turn out to be really arrogant and i'm-better-than-you isn't it?  funny also how they can never engage in debate about the facts because of a couple of hecklers.  it's just an excuse: "he's mean, so i won't discuss the facts!"  

for chrissake already, lady, tell us the "truths" as you see them and wel'll talk about it.  what are you afraid of?  nobody's gonna bite you.  nobody's gonna edit or ban you.  just lay it out there and let's talk it over.  and, btw, you are going to get heckled;ignore it and state the facts as you see them.

[Anonymous]

No you don't have to do anything.  But you look kinda silly when you come to this board to post and then refuse to engage in any discussion....with ANYone, rational and civil or not.  Do you expect no one to respond to you?  Do you expect us to not ask you any questions about what you post?