Wilderness program effectiveness

[Anonymous]

PLS HELP, I think your experience most probably didn't involve a Behaviorial Modification program, where the kids were sent for drug problems, deliquency problems, psychological problems--- and as a "stepping stone" to a long-term treatment program---like the one your niece is facing at Majestic Ranch.
LOTS of kids go to "CAMP"--but a wilderness treatment program is a whole different ball game.
IT AIN'T SUPPOSE TO BE FUN!!!!!!!!!!

[Anonymous]

On 2006-06-09 07:55:00, Anonymous wrote:

"IT AIN'T SUPPOSE TO BE FUN!!!!!!!!!!

"

Why?

which expert has proven that the only way kids can learn and "grow" is through abuse, adversity, deprivation?  Adversity can certainly develop character, but can also harm when intentionally heaped on by another human.

It's been suggested by numerous people that more fun and laughter, positive regard, and doing away with deprivation would go a long way in genuinely helping 'angry' kids find some peace in a fucked up culture. Deprivation, forced marches through the desert, marching and sleeping in the open in sub-zero and 100+ temps, teaches nothing. Except the degree to which your parent will go to punish you, and how to ?act? to avoid further mistreatment.
Do they really have a choice but to demonstrate what is expected?  Is that real ?growth? or acting?

How does deprivation and abuse cure depression?
Laughter trumps abuse/deprivation in terms of treating depression.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=& ... depression
I didn?t see any smiles or hear any laughter in the Brat Camp expose except when they were served decent food. I saw long, sad, painful faces on kids being force marched in adverse conditions.

Maybe unhappy/hopeless kids need a retreat from the irrational demands of their parents and society where they can play and laugh for a couple of months and learn "Cultural" survival skills for day-to-day living in an insane world.

[TheWho]

Couldn?t say it better myself.  A change of environment, laughter, learning something new, being with peers, experiencing the sense of accomplishment all add to raising a childs self esteem, personal growth and getting them on track to a happy life.

[Dr Fucktard]

SIBS -- The Wave of the Future in Drug Treatment.?

[MightyAardvark]

Education by force, punishment and repression,  will only train a generation of slaves.

-Aristotle.

I shall only ask him, and not teach him, and he shall share the enquiry with me
-Plato.

I think you probably get my meaning.

The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. ... All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.
--Hermann Goering, Luftwaffe commander, sentenced to death at Nuremberg

[Troll Control]

On 2006-06-09 10:40:00, TheWho wrote:

"Couldn?t say it better myself.  A change of environment, laughter, learning something new, being with peers, experiencing the sense of accomplishment all add to raising a childs self esteem, personal growth and getting them on track to a happy life."

Unfortunately, this isn't how the programs operate.  It's more like browbeat, intimidate, threaten, punish, humiliate and silence.

[TheWho]

On 2006-06-09 11:24:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:

"

On 2006-06-09 10:40:00, TheWho wrote:


"Couldn?t say it better myself.  A change of environment, laughter, learning something new, being with peers, experiencing the sense of accomplishment all add to raising a childs self esteem, personal growth and getting them on track to a happy life."

Unfortunately, this isn't how the programs operate.  It's more like browbeat, intimidate, threaten, punish, humiliate and silence.
"

I can partially agree with you DJ.  This can apply to many households or many programs but not all.  Some programs are abusive, some households are abusive.  I personally do not refer to them in absolute terms.

[Troll Control]

I will continue to refer to programs the way I do until I see evidence that there are indeed good ones.  I've never seen one and never heard of one, so it is absolute to me in that sense.

[TheWho]

On 2006-06-09 11:43:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:

"I will continue to refer to programs the way I do until I see evidence that there are indeed good ones.  I've never seen one and never heard of one, so it is absolute to me in that sense.
"

I can see how you feel,DJ, We need to respect each others viewpoints and base our positions on what each of us knows and have experienced.

[Troll Control]

It's not really a feeling, it's empiricism.  

I've yet to see any benefit to residential placement for anybody other than severely mentally ill and violent/suicidal clients.

Patients who aren't severely disturbed and suicidal/violent are best served in the community and all the research I've ever studied bears this out.  

Also, all treatment must take place in the least restrictive environment possible - this is a basic tenet of psychological treatment.  Programs, by definition, are not the least restrictive environment and also employ ineffective and damaging techniques.

[MightyAardvark]

There are good wilderness camps, they're the ones that take children who actually want to go.

The German Nazis and the Russian Communists came very close to us in their methods, but they never had the courage to recognize their own motives. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0451524934/circlofmiamithem' target='_new'>O'Brien, the apparatchik

[Anonymous]

Your mother wants to go to them.

[TheWho]

On 2006-06-09 12:03:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:

"It's not really a feeling, it's empiricism.  



I've yet to see any benefit to residential placement for anybody other than severely mentally ill and violent/suicidal clients.



Patients who aren't severely disturbed and suicidal/violent are best served in the community and all the research I've ever studied bears this out.  



Also, all treatment must take place in the least restrictive environment possible - this is a basic tenet of psychological treatment.  Programs, by definition, are not the least restrictive environment and also employ ineffective and damaging techniques.




"

Sorry, Cant agree with you there, DJ, I am sure your personal expereince may show this but mine has been different.

[Anonymous]

Your mother's personal experience has been different. :wave:

[Anonymous]

On 2006-06-09 11:24:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:

"

On 2006-06-09 10:40:00, TheWho wrote:


"Couldn?t say it better myself.  A change of environment, laughter, learning something new, being with peers, experiencing the sense of accomplishment all add to raising a childs self esteem, personal growth and getting them on track to a happy life."

Unfortunately, this isn't how the programs operate.  It's more like browbeat, intimidate, threaten, punish, humiliate and silence.
"

Well, so you say.  But there are many who found no browbeating, no intimidation, no threats, no punishment, no humiliation and no silent treatment in their wilderness program -- a program that also gave them the time and environment to reflect on their life, to consider past behaviors and ways of avoiding the temptation of drugs and addiction to same, and overall learn ways to enjoy better things of life.  They weren't forced to do these things.  In fact many did go voluntarily, and could walk away at will, but more than one who decided to walk then thought better of it and returned, and at the end of it was proud of their accomplishment.