Author Topic: Wilderness program effectiveness  (Read 14052 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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Wilderness program effectiveness
« Reply #30 on: June 08, 2006, 03:31:00 PM »
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On 2006-06-08 11:41:00, Anonymous wrote:

and you won't even look at anything that says anything positive?

If you'd give me a fucking link to look at I'd be happy to.  If you're just gonna continue to tell me that they've already been posted I won't.


Quote
as for confrontational therapy being inherently dangerous, what does that have to do with the price of frankfurters?"


It's OK.  I didn't really expect you to get it.
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Offline Anonymous

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Wilderness program effectiveness
« Reply #31 on: June 08, 2006, 03:35:00 PM »
To the poster who was claiming that the Justice Department review lumped wilderness and boot camps together, s/he obviously didn't read it very closely:

Here's the section on wilderness-- no lumping:



One type of program particularly popular during the late 1970s and early 1980s was the wilderness or outward bound-type programs. These programs emphasize physical challenge and demand that individuals excel beyond what they feel they can do. Winterdyk and Roesch report that they found well over one hundred wilderness programs for treating delinquent youths in North America in the early 1980s. Outcome evaluations have been extremely rare (Gendreau and Ross 1987). Recently, several other wilderness-type programs have been studied. The results are shown in Table 8. All of these programs consider themselves wilderness programs. Perhaps the most frequently cited study of this type of program in the VisionQuest study by Greenwood and Turner (1987). They examined the behavior of the juveniles during the six to 18 months after release from the program (controlling for prior arrests). Youth from VisionQuest had fewer rearrests than youth who had served time in a probation camp or who had refused to accept the VisionQuest placement and were placed in other programs. While the results appear positive, as noted on the table the research methodology makes it impossible to draw conclusions regarding the program's effectiveness.

In a more recent study, Deschenes, Greenwood and Marshall (1996) examined the Nokomis Challenge Program in the Michigan Department of Social Services. Nokomis was designed as an intensive treatment program for low to medium risk juveniles. The focus of the program was on relapse prevention. Male youth were expected to spend less time in the residential facility but a longer time in community treatment when compared with youth in the training schools. Findings (see Table 9-8) indicated that the Nokomis youth had more felony arrests after release than did the comparison (significant). It is important to note that the examination of the implementation of the program revealed that the aftercare phase of the program failed to provide many of the expected treatment programs. There was limited substance abuse treatment and control group youth had more family counseling than the treatment group.

Castellano and Soderstrom completed a study of the Spectrum program in Illinois. This wilderness program was modeled after outward bound. The thirty day course focuses on teaching wilderness survival and group living skills to pre-delinquent and delinquent juveniles. A comparison of recidivism rates indicated that 75 percent of the Spectrum participants were rearrested in the follow-up period compared with 62.6 percent of the matched comparison group (nonsignificant).

In a random assignment study, RAND researchers examined the effectiveness of the Paint Creek Youth Center (PCYC) in southern Ohio (Greenwood and Turner 1993). The program targeted youth convicted of serious felonies who were required to spend an average of almost a year in residential treatment. While the program was located in a rural setting, it would not be classified as a wilderness or challenge program because these activities were not a major component of the program. The distinguishing features of the PCYC were: small size, problem oriented focus, cognitive/behavioral methods, family group therapy and intensive community reintegration and aftercare. Youth were randomly assigned to either the PCYC or regular training schools. Their behavior in the community after release was compared. The design was weakened because a relatively large number of the youth (25 percent) were removed from the PCYC and sent to the training schools to serve the remainder of their term. Furthermore, 27 percent of the remaining youth did not complete all three phases of the residential program. Official records of recidivism indicated that 50.7 percent of the PCYC youth (including those who were removed) and 61.3 percent of the control group had been arrested during a one-year follow-up. The difference was nonsignificant. The small numbers of offenders in the study limits the power to detect differences between groups. This along with the loss of 25 percent of the PCYC youth makes it difficult to draw any definitive conclusions from the research.

Overall, these studies of juvenile residential programs had very mixed results. Although several of the studies were well designed, problems with the small number of subjects, attrition and program implementation limit the conclusions that can be drawn about the effectiveness of the programs in preventing crime. The one program that included both a strong research design and a reduction in recidivism, although this difference was not significant, was Paint Creek. Interestingly, this program followed many of the principles proposed by Andrews et al. (1990). High risk youth were targeted for participation an the intensive program that used a cognitive/behavioral mode of treatment. However, problems with the research design severely limited the potential for detecting differences even if the program had indeed been effective. Most notably, the focus of the program was not on wilderness or challenge activities.

The other programs reviewed in this section either targeted individuals who were lower risks for recidivism (Nokomos, Spectrum), were of short duration (Spectrum), were less behavioral in treatment philosophy, or focused on non-criminogenic factors such as physical challenge (Spectrum). Thus, from the perspective of the research on rehabilitation (see section on rehabilitation and the Andrews et al. 1990 study), we would not expect them to be effective in reducing future criminal behavior.

Table 9-8. Studies of youth residential programs showing scientific methods score and findings.

          Study              Scientific                  Findings                
                            Methods Score                                        

                                                                                 
Greenwood and Turner              2        VisionQuest (39%) fewer arrests than  
(1987)                                     YCC Control (71%), S.                

                                                                                 
Deschenes et al (1996)            3        Nokomis group (48%) had more arrests  
                                           than control (23%), S.                

                                                                                 
Greenwood and Turner              3        Paint Creek youth  had fewer          
(1993)                                     official arrests (51%) than control  
                                           youth (61%), NS.                      
                                                                                 
                                           Paint Creek youth self-reported more  
                                           serious offenses (75%) than control  
                                           (62%), NS.                            

                                                                                 
Castellano and Soderstrom         2        Spectrum youth did not differ from    
(1992)                                     control youth in recidivism, NS.      


Note: NS=nonsignificant, S=significant



Note the low methods scores (5 is the best).


Regarding the meta-analysis:

Here's a good summary quote "Two trends in the literature were noted.  First, although many studies report benefits from participation in wilderness therapy programs, MOST IF NOT ALL studies appear to be plagued with methodological problems and HAVE NOT PROVIDED CONCLUSIVE EVIDENCE THAT WILDERNESS THERAPY IS EFFECTIVE.  And second, the majority of studies FAILED TO USE FOLLOW UP MEASURES OR ONLY USED SHORT TERM FOLLOW-UP, SUGGESTING A LACK OF LONGITUDINAL STUDY DESIGN IN THE LITERATURE.

http://www.obhic.com/research/doctoral.pdf

And this is a review by one of the leading supporters of wilderness-- he admits that there's no good evidence to favor it and calls for more study, basically.  Also note that the programs he does additional research on in this meta-analysis have models that are supposed to avoid humiliation and confrontation-- so that even if the studies show these do work, it wouldn't prove that the in-your-face stuff that goes on in so many of these programs is helpful.

In fact, one of the main reasons that wilderness treatment is so problematic is that, as Cathy Sutton's story illustrates and that of Aaron Bacon and his family, parents cannot tell whether they will actually *get* kind, caring gentle treatment in these programs or abuse.  Because of low pay and high turnover, the idea that a program is "good" can change overnight if they hire staff from one that is abusive.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #32 on: June 08, 2006, 04:10:00 PM »
The Who, I found this website more helpful

North Carolina Governor's Advocacy Council for Person's With Disabilities (GACPD--Newsletters

The DANET TEAM: (death/abuse/neglect/exploitation team)

The DANET team responds to complaints, and conducted a through investigation of the SUWS of Carolina Wilderness program; finding the following:
  The program was not licensed
  IN FACT, the State's Division of Facility Services (DFS) had never heard of the camp.
  The camp had minimal accomodations: inadequate sleeping quarters, inadequate food, inadequate hygeine supplies.

SUWS ONLY responded to DFS demand to bring the facility up to licensing standards AFTER SUWS issued a closure letter. Only then, did SUWS apply for licensing.

DFS and GACPD continue to monitor this facility.

This newletter should be of more interest to potential "CLIENTS" than a bunch of "testimonials" wouldn't you think?
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #33 on: June 08, 2006, 04:12:00 PM »
Link to Gorvernor's Advocacy Council for Person's With Disabilities  GACPD  Newletters

http://www.doc.state.nc.us/gacpd.newsletters.htm
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Offline TheWho

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« Reply #34 on: June 08, 2006, 05:23:00 PM »
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On 2006-06-08 13:10:00, Anonymous wrote:

"The Who, I found this website more helpful



North Carolina Governor's Advocacy Council for Person's With Disabilities (GACPD--Newsletters



The DANET TEAM: (death/abuse/neglect/exploitation team)



The DANET team responds to complaints, and conducted a through investigation of the SUWS of Carolina Wilderness program; finding the following:

  The program was not licensed

  IN FACT, the State's Division of Facility Services (DFS) had never heard of the camp.

  The camp had minimal accomodations: inadequate sleeping quarters, inadequate food, inadequate hygeine supplies.



SUWS ONLY responded to DFS demand to bring the facility up to licensing standards AFTER SUWS issued a closure letter. Only then, did SUWS apply for licensing.



DFS and GACPD continue to monitor this facility.



This newletter should be of more interest to potential "CLIENTS" than a bunch of "testimonials" wouldn't you think?



"


Yes, actually I heard all about it.  They have a copy hanging in their ?Family Hall? area, they got a little chuckle from it.  The governors office was a little red faced with SUWS response.  The people who conducted the visit were new and unaware of Wilderness programs.

They got written up for:

had minimal accomodations: inadequate sleeping quarters, inadequate food, inadequate hygeine supplies

The accomidations are the Blue ridge mountains of North Carolina, its called a Wilderness Program!!! That?s where they sleep so the governor is calling his state inadequate, inadequate food,  They carry all their food with them and yes deodorant is in short supply.  It was embarrassing  that this is all they found and SUWS purchased this land and buildings from the Boy Scouts of America.

They were not closed on the spot for not having a license, so it was not that critical.  How many of us would have drivers licenses if we were not forced to have one, does it make us better drivers?

So to bring it up to standards they completely renovated one of the old boy scout buildings, put a nice bed, plumbing,deoderant and air conditioner in it for visiting inspectors to sleep in when and if they come back.  Problem solved.

But in all fairness I would not base my decision on web site testimonials, alone, it is a start but one should dig a little deeper and maybe ask to speak with some former parents etc.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #35 on: June 08, 2006, 05:58:00 PM »
Hey, idiot, the inspectors were there. That means they looked at what the place was supposed to be about. They probably knew significantly more than you do (although that's not very hard). Again, it's a matter of who you're going to believe: inspectors or programmies?

I'll take one junior inspector's word over every last programmie that ever lived.

You refer to the parents as "former" parents, and that's accurate; their children are either dead or have disowned them.
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Offline wild fig

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« Reply #36 on: June 08, 2006, 06:16:00 PM »
Every year, more kids die in our local public schools than all of the TBS, Wilderness Programs and Boot Camps combined... throughout the entire country.  Bad food, bad plumbing, inadequate heating and cooling, filth, and rampant crime are facts of everyday life in America's Public Schools.  The world (especially after school)is not a safe place.  My son feels more equipped to cope with the world after having gone to a Wilderness Program. He would go again-
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Offline TheWho

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« Reply #37 on: June 08, 2006, 06:18:00 PM »
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Hey, idiot, the inspectors were there. That means they looked at what the place was supposed to be about. They probably knew significantly more than you do (although that's not very hard). Again, it's a matter of who you're going to believe: inspectors or programmies?

Why so closed minded?  I think parents should look at all the reports, inspectors, previous parents, kids who attended, programmies  and make a well informed decision.


Quote
I'll take one junior inspector's word over every last programmie that ever lived.

If it was my child I wouldn?t.  I would seek opinions from all arenas as I stated above, you should not take the opinion of just one person.


Quote
You refer to the parents as "former" parents, and that's accurate; their children are either dead or have disowned them.

Hmmm. Okay
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Offline TheWho

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« Reply #38 on: June 08, 2006, 06:24:00 PM »
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On 2006-06-08 15:16:00, wild fig wrote:

"Every year, more kids die in our local public schools than all of the TBS, Wilderness Programs and Boot Camps combined... throughout the entire country.  Bad food, bad plumbing, inadequate heating and cooling, filth, and rampant crime are facts of everyday life in America's Public Schools.  The world (especially after school)is not a safe place.  My son feels more equipped to cope with the world after having gone to a Wilderness Program. He would go again- "


Funny you should mention that, there was a kid that went thru with my daughter who said he would like to go thru it again.  At the end of their stay some of the kids demonstrated some things they learned and you could tell the ones that really enjoyed their experiences by their enthusiasm.
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Offline wild fig

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« Reply #39 on: June 08, 2006, 06:28:00 PM »
My son really enjoyed the challenge.  He worked his way up to the "Air Phase"- the highest level of the program and felt an enormous sense of accomplishment and achievement- two things that had been missing in his life prior to Second Nature.  Some of his friends were miserable and it was ineffective.  It's not right for every kid.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #40 on: June 08, 2006, 06:35:00 PM »
EMERGENCY EMERGENCY!

FACTS DISCLOSED!

PROGRAMMIE SQUAD: POST BULLSHIT UNTIL THEY GO AWAY!
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #41 on: June 08, 2006, 08:24:00 PM »
One of my father's friends owns a Teen Help wilderness program. The irony of reading this board is that the program supporters believe the posters on this site aren't concerned with the welfare of the children. This is the only reason why they post here is because they know first hand of the negative effects of unnecesary incarceration. I know my father's friend and he could care less about teens, he is a business man. He is in it for the money, and nothing else. I hope parents understand an important fact, this man laughs at you at our dinner engagements. He can't believe why you spend so much money on a glorified summer camp. He laughs about how he gives his staff new age names like 'Forest' and 'Soaring Eagle', gives them the title of life counselor, and how the parents eat it up. Those of us who have seen the industry from the inside in some way know the truth, you are being scammed in most cases. This industry attracts many unscrupulous types because it is completely unregulated. A pedophile, a convicted pedophile, could start a camp. Think about that long and hard before you send your child away. There is lots of money to be had, and the gold rush is on. These modern day forty-niners don't care about the kids. If they  did they would leave the job for the professionals -- the people who dedicate their life to helping teens -- not the bottom dollar. Instead these unregulated fly-by-night teen help camps plaster the internet with their websites. They pay thousands of dollars in free tuition and cash to other parents and random people to refer kids to their facility. They use high pressure sales tactics and fear mongering to seal the deal. As I write this I recall the image of this overweight, middle age man laughing with his mouth full, boasting to my father at how much money he is making. It made me sick, and I hope the parents here blindly supporting programs in general recognize the irony of their position. Fornits is the only forum I've read that contains actual truth about these programs. Keep up the good fight!
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #42 on: June 08, 2006, 08:26:00 PM »
For those who say more kids die in public school, look at the denominator-- ie, there are more kids *in* public school, so of course more kids will die there.

the real number is proportionate-- and there, the specialty programs are going to fail big time.

and they would even if they actually worked, because if you aggregate the most troubled kids who are already at high risk for problems, they are going to die at a higher rate than the lower risk kids.

if you used the same logic, you could say far more people die at cancer hospitals than die in the general population.  that would be true because anything short of 100% cure rate would mean that cancer patients will die at a higher rate than the general population.  even at the best cancer hospital in the world, the death rate will be higher for the simple reason that people with cancer are more likely to die than people without it.

so that's a completely meaningless comparison.
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Offline AtomicAnt

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« Reply #43 on: June 08, 2006, 09:55:00 PM »
Quote
On 2006-06-08 15:16:00, wild fig wrote:

"Every year, more kids die in our local public schools than all of the TBS, Wilderness Programs and Boot Camps combined... throughout the entire country.  Bad food, bad plumbing, inadequate heating and cooling, filth, and rampant crime are facts of everyday life in America's Public Schools.  The world (especially after school)is not a safe place.  My son feels more equipped to cope with the world after having gone to a Wilderness Program. He would go again- "


Your account of the public school system is completely false. Do a Google search on kids dying in public schools and you find little except articles about Columbine. In fact, I was unable to locate any news stories about deaths in US public schools in 2005 or 2006.

You certainly have a negative, and inaccurate view of the world.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #44 on: June 08, 2006, 10:12:00 PM »
Google isn't the best source.  Try D.C. Schools, Chicago, New Orleans and Miami.
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