Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > Aspen Education Group
ASR
Anonymous:
What the hell is wrong with you people?
You ask Justamom to answer some questions- she takes the time to do just that and yet you either don't believe her or ridicule her.
I guess it kills you that her son, 4 years later has gotten his life together and is doing well. So has mine. Justamom, our family also had the same therapist that your son had, which BTW was the 1st therapist he EVER clicked with since his issues started at age 7. I attribute much of his success in the program to her.
hanzomon4:
--- Quote from: ""guest parent"" ---What the hell is wrong with you people?
You ask Justamom to answer some questions- she takes the time to do just that and yet you either don't believe her or ridicule her.
I guess it kills you that her son, 4 years later has gotten his life together and is doing well. So has mine. Justamom, our family also had the same therapist that your son had, which BTW was the 1st therapist he EVER clicked with since his issues started at age 7. I attribute much of his success in the program to her.
--- End quote ---
Parents get these responses because most people here are program survivors or ex-staff. You must understand that many were abused in ways that resemble Abu-ghraib, others were emotionally damaged.
With that said, if you feel ridiculed just ignore the particular post. I'm asking questions because I'm curious as to the thinking of program-parents and the programs themselves.
I'll have some more questions later but in the meantime I would suggest that both of you register and read some survivor testimonies of other programs. This will give you a better understanding of the hostility some Pro-program parents face here.
It takes thick skin to stick around here but it's worth it, so please do stick around.
Anne Bonney:
--- Quote from: ""JustaMom"" ---He had two major depressions by the time he was 14; he was a ?different? and musically gifted child who was bullied. As a defense, he started dressing like a Goth and hanging out with Goths?he had a lot of suicidal ideation. The public high school would not keep him because of his suicidal talk and when he got to the ER, he denied suicidal ideation. It was a mess and I wanted him supervised 24/7 BUT not in a hospital short term because he had long-term problems that he needed time to address. Someone in the posts above suggested a ?regular? boarding school?none would have taken a Goth who talked about the desirability of dying ASAP. He only actually made one weak suicidal gesture, but I take this risk VERY seriously in a teen with major depression.
--- End quote ---
If this is a kid who was truly suicidal then he belongs in a hospital setting, not 'counseled' by a bunch of unqualified kids and unqualifed or underqualifed staff.
--- Quote ---Individual and family therapy from age 7; psychiatrist for meds; elimination of homework and half day school attendance to reduce pressure on him; positive incentives to do well. He was frustrating to community-based therapists because even at age 8, he could ?wait out? a 50 minute session easily. He is the opposite of ADHD?has a high degree of cognitive control and could easily draw adults into power struggles?which he usually won. He was frustratingly non-compliant without ever actually braking many rules when he was younger.
--- End quote ---
So you had a highly intelligent, unique, non-compliant kid who was driving you nuts. You say he's suicidal and your solution is to send him somwhere where complaince is forced and education is limited?
--- Quote ---I am a professional in the field ?but NOT an employee of ASR or any other residential program?and have many contacts. Therefore, I did not use an educational consultant. Son?s psychiatrist (pdoc) was very specific about the type of program I should seek?reasonably good academic program (because son is neither ADHD nor LD); and ?artsy? rather than athletic type of student; the presence of other kids who have struggled with depression; a structured but not b-mod program with a good talk therapy component; and a ZERO tolerance for violence. I did a lot of reading and on-line research, we visited, interviewed, etc. In the end, I thought ASR was a better match than they did?but it eventually worked out---see below.
--- End quote ---
And yet look what you ended up with.
--- Quote ---No, and it was clear to me he was not being abused. As a severely bullied child, I would have known if he were afraid?having witnessed his fear and anxiety for years. He did not LIKE everything about ASR but he clearly was not afraid. If he had even witness abuse, let alone been abused, he would have withdrawn into a nearly catatonic state. As I indicated above, he filed a formal written complaint against a PE teacher for excessive harshness; he would not have done this if he had felt threatened in any way.
--- End quote ---
Isolation and Groupthink is used to gain compliance. The seminars and peer culture are extremely effective in this regard.
--- Quote ---I was not warned of this but that may be because ASR staff quickly figured out that son?s problems did not stem from our lack of interest, involvement, supervision, or structure. At the end of the first family therapy weekend, son said that although he was annoyed by the rules, he knew he needed to be in a place such as ASR?he said, ? I love you, see you in two months,? turned and walked away. Other students were begging their parents to take them out and promising to ?be good? if the parents did. Son was well aware that we would not give in to that sort of empty promise and so I conclude that ASR did not feel the need to tell us what you have asked about. That does not mean they did not say it to other parents.
--- End quote ---
Sounds like a scene out of Straight.
--- Quote ---There were weekly telephone calls by six kids at a time in a room with a counselor. I assumed the counselor was there to make sure the students actually called their parents. I did not feel the role of the staff member was to censor, since no one could possibly keep track of the content of six calls at once and the counselor was NOT on the line?just in the room. Our main problem with the calls is they were initially too short to accomplish anything. I wanted them to be extended and I wanted the counselor to stop telling son how much time he had left because it disrupted his train of thought. I spoke to a supervisor and the calls were not extended until they were extended for everyone, but the counselor stopped telling son?who wears a watch always and could tell time at age 4?how much time was left.
--- End quote ---
Were you told to report suspicious conversations or attempts to get you to pull him out?
--- Quote ---I do not feel treatment should be in quotes. There was a lot of treatment including group therapy in which son had little to say for 6 months. I do not know that he was ?punished? for this because I had indicated to ASR staff at intake that son?s not talking (when obviously highly verbal in other situations) had been a problem for pervious therapists. I said it would take a long time and great feelings of safety for him to talk in a group.
--- End quote ---
That's why the need for isolation, groupthink, LifeSteps. Strongwilled kid, non communicative, non compliant...isolate him enough, love bomb him enough, groupthink him enough and he'll come 'round.
--- Quote --- If I have concerns based on what I have read here, it is about the ?Life Steps? which were day long therapy sessions around a specific theme loosely based on Native cultural values. Perhaps because son was interested in philosophy and Native views of the natural world, he did not seem to suffer ill-effects but I am not sure that such intense experiences would be good for all adolescents, particularly if they were not somewhat introspective to begin with.
--- End quote ---
Which it sounds like your son was. That kind of "therapy" was what damaged me the most. It was also the one that took me longest to understand the ill effects of. I mean, I was 'headed down the wrong path' right? I needed a 'wake up call', right? I was going to be 'deadinsaneorinjail' if I didn't realize my druggie ways, right? They were all just trying to "help" me, right? And everyone else seemed to think it was what I needed to do. I had no outside reference to bounce anything off of. I was isolated in an environment where everyone thought the exact same way and I wasn't going to be accepted until I did too.
--- Quote ---In terms of individual therapy, son was lucky: I thought some of the ?counselors? were too young and only had Bachelor?s degrees. It was obvious to me that they were getting experience before applying to graduate school. However, son?s primary therapists was an MSW from Smith College and was older than the other counselors. She was excellent comparing very favorably to private therapists in the community?especially because she did not give up on our son?she saw the potential he had to function well as an adult.
The pdoc was the best adolescent psychiatrist I have ever worked with and took a conservative approach to meds?that I appreciated. Also, an issue was whether or not son was bi-polar. ASR was a safe place to trial different medications and bi-polar was ruled out much more quickly than it could have been in an uncontrolled community setting.
--- End quote ---
I'm glad you were lucky, but that sounds like it's all it was.....luck.
--- Quote ---The nature of a 24/7 program changes Tx in positive way if it is a good program. Adolescents have many distraction?the internet, music, cell phone, bad companions, etc. and ASR cuts off all access to these distractions. This is helpful to a child who is adept at hiding his feelings and self-distracting when he had negative feelings. In addition, it was helpful to son to realize that other adolescents suffered as he had (he has a very high achieving older sister as did several boys in his peer group) and some had much more difficult problems than he.
--- End quote ---
This just sounds more and more like this was a kid who wasn't turning out like Mommy and Daddy wanted. Big sis was a success in their eyes, but this kid was....*gasp* GOTH!!!!:o :roll: God forbid we let out kids grow up to be individuals. God forbid they develop a mind of their own.
--- Quote ---In addition, after the first 6 months, son worked really hard with the therapy program as did we. I talked weekly with his therapist and frequently (but not weekly) with his pdoc.
--- End quote ---
How often do you speak to him?
--- Quote --- There is not a lot to do at ASR but school and therapy
--- End quote ---
Isolation and groupthink. Read up...
--- Quote ---
http://www.ex-cult.org/General/lifton-criteria
1. MILIEU CONTROL
the most basic feature is the control of human communication within
and environment if the control is extremely intense, it becomes
internalized control -- an attempt to manage an individual's inner
communication control over all a person sees, hears, reads, writes
(information control)
creates conflicts in respect to individual autonomy
groups express this in several ways: Group process, isolation from
other people, psychological pressure, geographical distance or
unavailable transportation, sometimes physical pressure
often a sequence of events, such as seminars, lectures, group
encounters, which become increasingly intense and increasingly
isolated, making it extremely difficult-- both physically and
psychologically--for one to leave.
sets up a sense of antagonism with the outside world; it's us
against them
closely connected to the process of individual change (of personality)
4. CONFESSION
cultic confession is carried beyond its ordinary religious, legal
and therapeutic expressions to the point of becoming a cult in itself
sessions in which one confesses to one's sin are accompanied by
patterns of criticism and self-criticism, generally transpiring within
small groups with an active and dynamic thrust toward personal change
is an act of symbolic self-surrender
makes it virtually impossible to attain a reasonable balance between
worth and humility
a young person confessing to various sins of pre-cultic existence can
both believe in those sins and be covering over other ideas and
feelings that s/he is either unaware of or reluctant to discuss
often a person will confess to lesser sins while holding on to other
secrets (often criticisms/questions/doubts about the group/leaders
that may cause them not to advance to a leadership position)
"the more I accuse myself, the more I have a right to judge you"
--- End quote ---
--- Quote ---ASR used peer groups in which a group went through the 14 month program as a unit. If a student had major problems, he/she could be ?dropped? into a peer group behind them, in effect, lengthening the program. This happened to someone in the peer group who son was close to. I believe she used drugs on a home visit. Also, a student from an earlier peer group ?dropped in? to go to Costa Rica. I do not really have an opinion about this practice because son went from being marginal to stay at ASR due to safety issues to a positively progressing student?after about 6 months?so the idea he would be dropped into another peer group never came up?there would have been no reason to discuss it.
--- End quote ---
This is just like Straight. The phases. As long as you tow the program line, you'll be fine but if you dare develop any critical thinking skills or begin to question the dogma, you're screwed.
--- Quote ---Others have talked about the punishments used?however, I would not want 120 adolescents in one place, let alone with problems, without rules and consequences. Son was a bit different because he never broke rules?he just didn?t participate. I have learned on this site that some people feel that self-reflections and self-studies are highly punitive because the student has to remain seated and write in a note book. If a student had ADHD, staying seated might in itself be punitive, but son was a reflective person (when not severely depressed,) and it some ways, writing his thoughts was easier than talking about them. I know he went over his reflection books with his primary on a daily basis when he was on one of these relections. I have read those books and I do not see them as punitive in a negative sense?such as when a student is in time-out?when it?s over, nothing has been gained. I know he gained a great deal from his self-study; it was pivotal; so it was a consequence for something?but it was very productive.
--- End quote ---
they're designed as stopthink procedures. A way to 'internalize' what they've "learned about themselves". Newage psychobabble bullshit.
--- Quote ---ASR did NOT use points within the levels (Life Steps) which was a major advantage because son had spent many hours figuring out how to defeat the point systems his public schools would devise to try to get him to produce school work. They never worked to help him get anything done?but he was greatly entertained by ?defeating? adults he regarded (with some justification) a hostile to him.
--- End quote ---
Again, it sounds like you had a bright, unique kid who wasn't doing what you wanted him to do. No wonder he was suicidal. People trying to change who he is all the damn time. Let him be!! This seems much more about control and how the kid reflects on the parent than anything else, IMO.
--- Quote ---Also, those before the 3rd Life step were ?lower school? and afterwards were ?upper school.? I never exactly understood exactly what each entailed but the general idea was upper school students had more privileges.
--- End quote ---
At Straight it was "oldcomers" and "newcomers".
--- Quote ---I don?t know what you mean by everyday staff. See above for comments on training levels of primary counselors. I don?t care what the training of the nonprofessional staff is as long as they undergo thorough background checks and are fingerprinted.
--- End quote ---
You don't seem to know or care much about the qualifications of these people. You also don't seem to interested in how they bring about these changes in kids...as long as they do. I keep hearing you say "I don't know", or "I never really did understand that". You pretty much just "trusted the process", huh?
--- Quote ---ASR is a specialty boarding school and is accredited as such. Contrary to what others have said, as a private school, it is under the supervision of the Berkshire Community School District. ASR is not JACHO accredited but it should not be; it is not a psychiatric facility.
--- End quote ---
You're asking for someone to watch you kid "24/7", manage meds and treat his suicidal ideations, but it shouldn't be licensed at therapeutic????:o
--- Quote ---? Did ASR send "difficult" kids to a more "rigorous" program?
Definitely, and that is a it should be.
--- End quote ---
If we can't break 'em one way, we've got others.
--- Quote ---? What types of consequences did ASR use and for what behaviors?
In addition to what I put under your level question, ASR used consequences such as washing dishes, weeding the garden, and loss of school store as punishments. Because son was not a minor rule infraction sort, I think he did not receive many of these sorts of punishments. That was his pattern in public school?internalizing problems but no specific rule breaking.
--- End quote ---
Conseqences are more to do with the peer culture and group conformity. You bond with these people because it's human nature. They're the only social contact you have so if you're ostricised from even them (in addition to your family, friends, home) it's a very powerful weapon.
Anne Bonney:
--- Quote from: ""JustaMom"" ---J
He had two major depressions by the time he was 14; he was a ?different? and musically gifted child who was bullied. As a defense, he started dressing like a Goth and hanging out with Goths?he had a lot of suicidal ideation. The public high school would not keep him because of his suicidal talk and when he got to the ER, he denied suicidal ideation. It was a mess and I wanted him supervised 24/7 BUT not in a hospital short term because he had long-term problems that he needed time to address. Someone in the posts above suggested a ?regular? boarding school?none would have taken a Goth who talked about the desirability of dying ASAP. He only actually made one weak suicidal gesture, but I take this risk VERY seriously in a teen with major depression.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote ---
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t= ... c&start=60
There were more kids who were dangers to themselves. I honestly think ASR is very lucky in that no one has succeeded in committing suicide. I can tell you first hand that for someone with major depression ASR could drive you past breaking point easily. It seemed like they pick and chose who they took seriously about being suicidal. I was not taken seriously, and had my roommate not been in the room one day, I may well have taken my life. I do not say that to evoke pity or anything else like that, and I was not using it to "manipulate" ( a favorite ASR term)
--- End quote ---
--- Quote ---
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t= ... c&start=60
Three Springs Waygookin wrote:
1) What is self-study?
2) Describe this Escorting more please?
3) Why was a student doing the escorting of a self-harming/suicidal resident and not a staff member?
A self study was the worst of the three major consequences. (reflection, challenge, self study). You had work projects, all free time was spent at your table, facing the wall. Lots of writing assignments. Loss of all privileges. Standing during all meetings. You most likely had strict bans
Basically I had to take her back to the dorm and be with her while she gathered up her things and changed, etc. I don't remember if she showered or not. I was basically there to make sure she didn't attempt again.
I don't know why they had me do it. I was "trusted" at that point, and honestly... probably a better choice than some of the staff.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote ---
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t= ... r&start=15
yes, they did. to a large degree. Dean Kent (the staff mentioned in the article) was gone by the time i had arrived. (he was there in 1997, and i got to ASR in Cummington, MA on January 5th of 1998) i had heard from other students about Dean, that he was a really nice guy but fired b/c he'd called DSS on them. Brett Carey was still the Dean of Student Life when i arrived, and his wife Lisa also helped in the fitness department & was pregnant when i first arrived. They had 2 other daughters, Madison & Carly. The whole thought was a bit frightening, because when we had the 2 hour group "therapy" sessions 2 times a week, they were harsh and abusive to say the least. All of us students would be split into 2 groups, and we'd be rounded up in a circle to get screamed at, belittled and dehumanized. They called it "confrontational", although it was more like verbal abuse and intentional slaughtering.
i was very afraid while i was there, as a student with an extensive sexual abuse history involving rape & incest, i was constantly the target of this slaughtering, esp. b/c i was overweight at the time. needless to say, i left ASR with anorexia some 19 months later.
Brett & other students were all allowed to scream vulgarities at you, called you a "fat bitch, slut," and all. at the age of 15 i learned the word "dildo" while playing scrabble with Brett. One of my roomates claimed that Brett had forced her into sexual operations.
Most of all, it was excusable for students to haze each other.
It was almost looked at as funny. One Staff named Kristen Merhoff gave me funny looks and made sarcastic and patronizing comments when i'd opened up to her about my eating disorder.
Later on, a staff named Amy Robichaud would scream at me for ruining my life, pushing everyone away, talking about how i was a disasterous person, unworthy of being loved. To say the least, she was an abusive person, much alike a person in the throws of an addiction like alchoholism & drug addictions, both of which she admittedly had. There was a great deal of favoritism there, even staff who seemed to want to gain the approval of certain students.
The labor & sleep deprivation that was mentioned in the article is most likely in reference to the "Lifesteps". These were so called "workshops" it was mandatory for all students to attend. Staff and students would be expected to open up there deepest and most unknown
secrets for the sake of "growing". It's true, there was little sleeping allowed & often i myself left feeling shamed & ridiculed.
i was one of the main targets in that school the entire time i was there, a target of hazing & was even blamed for a student breaking into the med office and comsuming large quantities of my prescriptions. For the first 5 months i was there, you could litterally leave, go smoke 1/2 a pack of cigarettes, drop a couple tabs of acid, take like 5 hits off a joint come back & they wouldn't even realize it.
ASR is, to say the least, a very very fucked up place. i have several more things to say, but this whole thing would take eons.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote ---
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t= ... r&start=30
I am a former student at ASR. I was in the first peer group, 97-98. My experience there haunts me to this day. I have read many articles that refer to the "old staff" and "new staff". I cannot speak for the way ASR is run now, being 2004, but I can speak for how it was run in 97 and 98. Let me start by saying that I am not an angry, defiant kid who is trying to start trouble for ASR. I have graduated high school and am about to graduate college and enter law school. I don't get into trouble, I am a productive member of society, and want people to know the truth. We were badgered, belittled, sworn at, made to stay up all night during "life steps" and given only small rations of food, had all calls to our parents monitored by staff and had the phone hung up on us if we tried to complain to our parents about these things, scrutinized and humiliated on a daily basis. Our mail was read, staff lost their voices by yelling so loudly at us, I personally was called a "slut", a rich little Daddysgirl, a doormat, told my dad tried to buy my love with money, made to discuss personal sexual and private experiences in group sessions with other peers, made to write a ten page paper by hand about what my "issues" were, and if the staff didn't like it, I started over ( this was because I was too close to my friend there, and they put us on bans so we couldn't talk to each other). People, whomever wants to hear specific stories about all of these things, I would be more than happy to share with you!!! email me at gilligansisland636@hotmail.com i bet i can help you get her out of there
I also graduated from ASR very recently on August the 6th. And I can tell you right now that any kid who complained, their parents were manipulated right out of believing them. There was extreme emotional abuse there, and the only reason anyone's behavior was modified was because they were scared shitless of staying there longer or going to a worse program. We were so scared, your own friends turned against you and you couldnt trust them. The group sessions were awful. One of my friends who had issues with sleeping around was in group and the counselor in the room told her that she might as well keep a mattress tied to her back. Daily, I heard awful things about myself and everyday I was just so sad. Places like this are awful and they need to be stopped. ASR isnt even the worst of them but they all need to go.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote ---
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t= ... r&start=60
I am a an ASR graduate. I graduated in October of 03. At the end of the program I believed that ASR had done a lot for me. Looking back I am shocked that I ever thought that. I was made to turn against my friends and turn them in for the slightest rule breaking (for example listening to music). In group we were often degraded and yelled at, supposedly to make us better. Several times I was suicidal and instead of worrying they told me I was lying and being manipulative. In one group eveyone was allowed to go around and say their judgements against everyone else things like "youre a fat slut". That group was horrible. You were scared into being good and behaving. I'm not sure why I thought this place was so great, I feel as if I was brainwashed in a way.
The wilderness experience was horrible. I spent over 40 days in the outdoors being punished for any little thing we did wrong. My first day I had to run 20 minutes and when I stopped the counselers screamed at me and when i vomited they didnt care. just told me i shouldt have drank so muich water.
--- End quote ---
[
Anonymous:
I really do not appreciate the sarcasm. I am a professional in the field and had resources to get help for my son that many parents do not have--then I get the old saw that "psychologists' kids are always nuts."
Being a Goth in appearance was not a problem to me--I have never controlled my kids' appearance--it is a typicl adolescent thing they outgrow when they find out the "real, adult world" (which they wish to be part of--brainwashed there I guess, too, to want a decent life with even a few luxuries). I will NOT tell you the ways in which my son is different because it could be used to identify him. He was NOT driving me nuts--you do not read carefully, he was driving teachers nuts. I worked with his pdoc here to here those half day attendance policies.
I worked the system for him not against him.
Finally, I would not wish his older sister NOT to achieve-she has a life, too. The issue of nature vs nurture comes into play--both our children are adopted and therefore, when they have very different temperaments and abilities, one can be a bit more objective than in some ways--they came to us as infants but hard-wired for certain gifts and problems (tendency to depression--for example.)
That you can think a college student living in NYC with all that is there--is still brain washed--is just ridiculous. One of the reasons he is so successful IMO is that we got him into a program BEFORE he developed a drug habit trying to dull his own pain. However, since he left ASR, he has been in the mainstream of adolescent society and has had no problems with substance use or anything else that I would consider outside the norm for late adolescence.
You ask me to look at OTHER programs--why should I--I didn't choose other programs, I chose this one. I believe that there are bad programs--that is why I worked so hard to find a GOOD MATCH for him. I detail how concerned ASR and their pdoc (who was male, not female) were with his suicidal ideation and you tell me he should have been hospitalized--thanks for the advice six years after the fact. He was hospitalized and released in 36 hours--with no improvement--Duh, what is supposed to happen in 36 hours???
Finally, and this is what I do not think you get-- depression and adolescence DISRUPTED a relationship of love. Yes, he had been in therapy but that was mainly to cope with going to school and despite everything I could do, the bullying was not acknowledged and not stopped. His ASR reflections are full of the pain he experienced in public school and anger at adults, including me, for not protecting him better. If I feel guilty, it is about him begging me to home school him starting in second grade. I did not think it would work and neither did any of the professionals I consulted. Maybe we were wrong: it might have been better to home school but that is not what I did.
After ASR, the loving relationship was restored--opps--I forgot, you do not think we are a loving family--we are all just brain washed zombies. Maybe some of your parents had their own problems and "sent you away." We did not do that, and we are emotionally together now, even though we have three different addresses. Perhaps that is what your life lacks.
You want to dwell in your past pain. I look forward to BOTH my children's lives as adults. I think both will be happy and successful in very different fields. You are wrong that I did not accept my son--I realized by the time he was three that he was significantly different than other children. I saw his gifts and how hard it was going to be for him to get to adulthood where he could LIVE FREE because children, at least in public school, are anything but free. His gifts were not appreciated and he was demeaned. NOW he is free, as an adult, to be what he wants--as is his sister--but because she is so much more "mainstream," it was not a struggle for her.
No parent owns a child. I feel it is a parental responsibility to help each child be his/her best. In our case, we took what the adoption agency offered, and received two unique and wonderful individuals. He called me last week--mid-week, which is unusual-- because he had a problem he wanted to discuss (he is not in therapy, BTW.) I listened, empathized with his dilemma, gave my opinion, and he said, "Thank you for your perspective--I'll let you know what I decide." That is NOT a brainwashed young adult nor is it one who resent his parents.
In the span of my son's life, ASR is regarded by him as an interlude in which he figured out a lot of things that he needed to IN ORDER TO BE HIS OWN PERSON. His affection and continued contact with some members of his peer group suggest to me that ASR is not, at least for everyone, the nightmare you portray.
All I can say is I have no intention of registering at this site. You live in your past pain--and I feel sorry for you--but time only goes in one direction. No matter what happened to you, if you want a life, you have to go forward--not spend your time verbally abusing a parent who is relating things that are really quite "proven" by a life lived well so far, but one that provides hard evidence in the opposite direction of your beliefs--so you demean and deride me as a "rebuttal." It is not a rebuttal at all because he is living out his childhood dream in NYC. All this at ASR happened to my son over 5 years ago and he is OK, actually much better than just OK--I wish you were, too, but you obviously are not.
Still
JustaMom
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version