Author Topic: ASR  (Read 53250 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #45 on: December 07, 2006, 10:38:30 AM »
Quote from: ""nalex18""
Quote from: ""Milk Gargling Death Penal""
I call well-organized, deliberately-planned troll on this whole thread.

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Lots of crying, yelling, etc. Some of the things that went on in group I believe was wrong.

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You would receive a folder with a "truth list" and writing assignments to do things like "Why I feel I don't have to talk in group".

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All mail was opened, read and searched.If a counselor thought something was innapropriate you did't get the mail.

That last one is actually illegal.

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I think everyone to some extent lied to get out of the program. Some people went through the program

having done drugs, had sex, etc but would never admit to it and were never caught. You learned to be compliant and really just to say whatever they wanted you to.

Pretty sick shit, right?

But then he says:

Quote
I can say that I am a different person than I was prior to ASR. I learned not to act out, even if the learning came in some uncomfortable ways.

That's either Stockholm to the max or some serious fucking bullshit.

Nalex, if you are for real, you ought to tell this miserable "guest parent" to go eat shit and set about reclaiming who you were.

The fact that you haven't makes you a defeated little pussy and you ought to be ashamed of yourself.


 I'm not a troll, whatever that means. ASR was not the best place in the world but I feel like an asshole when kids are really suffering at other places, and also because I had been in worse situations.. I go back and forth over it, and everyone else I know who went there with does the same. If the parent feels that changes have been made and her child has been helped I cannot state otherwise seeing that I have not been there in years.


MGDP-
It is one thing to attack a program parent who understands that your use of vulgar language shows your lack of wanting to actually discuss  or debate an issue.
Your inaccurate accusations of Nalex's sincerity or intentions was completely uncalled for. While she patiently answers some rather painful questions, she should be commended for her honesty and
sharing some very private issues must be very difficult for her.

Nalex, thankfully most people on this site really ARE genuinely interested in hearing what you have to say. You have been through a lot and seem to have gotten your life back together. It disturbs me as well as the others on this forum that many programs DO take kids with bigger issues than they can handle. Suicidal individuals belong in  residential treatment centers, where they can be watched 24/7, not TBS programs. Unfortunately there are parents out there that lie or don't tell the real issues to get their child into a program for fear that they will be rejected. Being desparate to get their child help is no excuse for doing so.

I am glad to hear that you have a good relationship with your family despite being sent to ASR. You seem like a really nice person who has no agenda other than sharing your personal experiences to try to help others. I wish you all the best in life as you have worked hard to get to where you are today
PS. Don't mind Milk Gargling Death Penalty. Hopefully one day he'll grow up
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anne Bonney

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« Reply #46 on: December 07, 2006, 01:17:53 PM »
Quote from: ""Milk Gargling Death Penal""
That's either Stockholm to the max or some serious fucking bullshit.

Nalex, if you are for real, you ought to tell this miserable "guest parent" to go eat shit and set about reclaiming who you were.

Why?  Why do you want to run anyone off that isn't militantly opposed to programs?  I personally AM militantly opposed to all of them but I'd like to be able to carry on a discussion with someone who thinks differently.  Someone like Karen or Sue, yes....they should be slammed every time they post, but someone coming on and talking about their actual experiences, even though I may vehemently disagree with them, should be afforded the opportunity to explain why they feel the  way they do.  It makes for interesting debate, which I believe is the whole point of a forum, no?


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The fact that you haven't makes you a defeated little pussy and you ought to be ashamed of yourself.


Fuck you, ya miserable little asshole.  You have no fucking clue what it's like to survive one of those hell holes and have no goddamn right making judgements about anyone who does.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #47 on: December 07, 2006, 04:45:26 PM »
Quote from: ""Three Springs Waygookin""
Guest Parent:

Like you I commend Nalex's honesty and bravery. As for the rest of your position you sum it up nicely, though I disagree on a few critical points. A suicidal child belongs under a properly managed mental hospital. Quite often the terms residential treatment facility and theraputic boarding school is used as one and the same..

 I think it is important to ask a few questions of yourself.

Obviously the picture being painted of ASR isn't a rosy one at all. How can you reconcile this information with the information coming from your own child? Even if a fraction of this information holds true for your own son I would be extremely alarmed. Being a veteran youth counselor of two different programs I can say that the model as described by Nalex is a frightening one.

Doesn't it at all make you question what you are being told?

A child sent to a TBS program often talks the party line for quite sometime after graduation. It makes sense as they had to eat, breathe, sleep, and live the ASR way for their entire stay at the facility.

I suggest that you consider asking your own son the same questions I am asking Nalex. Bear in mind the ends never justify the means. Your son may be doing well now, but if he witnessed abuse was abused himself that only comes back later in life. It is also, I am freely willing to conceed, that your son didn't witness any abuse or wasn't abused himself. I just don't find it very likely.  

I would greatly wish to interview your son as well. I would be more than happy to post my msn/yahoo/aim accounts to achieve that goal.


3 springs,
              I appreciate your ability to accept the information that I have given you and not accusing me of  JUST being a program parent and dismissing every word I say. I read Maia's book about the early programs and was absolutely appalled. These incidents happened a long, long time ago and had I sent my child to the Seed, Straight etc. I wouldn't be able to live with myself today.

I do believe everything that Nalex said happened. She also was at ASR 3 years ago,  probably when Rudy Bentz and others like him were running the school. I saw positive changes in the 13 months my son was there, and not all of it was laundry, food...
   . I don't believe that the physical abuse incidents still happen (although suspect that there have been hazing incidents between the kids).  I saw kids kicked out of the school  several times for incidents where they were physical with other students. Violence simply was not tolerated.
     I can see where the seminars could be seen as a form of verbal abuse. Family seminars were very emotional and I realize that our kids had to endure a lot  more than we did on a weekly basis. ASR's Lifesteps have also changed from the ones described in the Dave Marcus book, What it takes to pull me through, in 2001 (where the kids were ripped apart mentally). They are gearing themselves  to be more positive, self-esteem building processes.  
I am not sure that the LifeSteps still exist anymore as they were being phased out when our son graduated. As I said, huge changes were taking place around then, presumably for the better.
 

3 springs- our son goes on AIM occasionally, so perhaps he would be willing to "talk to you". I understand what you are trying to say about it taking some time to sink in before he can process his experiences.  Interestingly, he would love to visit ASR and at times has expressed wishing he could be back there (probably more for his friends).in some ways he felt safe  (for ex. no drug temptations) and liked having boundries, and being responsible for himself (academically, socially....). He grew up and matured there and perhaps that's part of why he feels successful. There is something to be said for having to be held accountable for one's actions, something that didn't happen here at home.  One thing that ASR is doing right, IMO is that they encourage positive behavior with rewards ( for ex. earning an i-pod). Sure there were consequences for negative behavior, mostly writing assignments which he hated. If he were trully mistreated, I don't understand why he would want to go back. Time will tell. But I absolutely do believe every word Nalex has said and yes, the picture she paints is not a pretty one. And would I have sent my son there if I knew these things were happening, of course not. For now, I do believe him that it wasn't some horrible place where he was miserable 24/7.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Oz girl

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« Reply #48 on: December 07, 2006, 05:17:12 PM »
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""
Why?  Why do you want to run anyone off that isn't militantly opposed to programs?  I personally AM militantly opposed to all of them but I'd like to be able to carry on a discussion with someone who thinks differently.  Someone like Karen or Sue, yes....they should be slammed every time they post, but someone coming on and talking about their actual experiences, even though I may vehemently disagree with them, should be afforded the opportunity to explain why they feel the  way they do.  It makes for interesting debate, which I believe is the whole point of a forum, no?


I agree whole heartedly anne. i also find it ironic that someone who claims to hate programmes is using bully tactics not dissimilar. Any comment that any poster makes which he does not like is considered trolling and results in a psycho personal attack.

My question to Nylex is what good do you think ASR did for you?
do you think the same positive thing could have been achieved at home without the programme?
If so how?
How was the costa rica trip for you?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
n case you\'re worried about what\'s going to become of the younger generation, it\'s going to grow up and start worrying about the younger generation.-Roger Allen

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #49 on: December 07, 2006, 05:22:30 PM »
Why is it that when we shared these same sort of positive comments about Carlbrook we were trashed and the whole thing became another beating up of KareninDallas?  butterfly and I had valid things to say, and re-reading the threads it appears others did as well, but got run off or had their contact information spewed all over the threads.  
you act like Milk is some kind of exception- he is the way everyone saying the slightest good thing about a school is treated now matter what.  Go back to the other ASR or Carlbrook discussions- its the same thing over and over.
no-I could not accomplish at home what I did at Carlbrook. i did whatever I wanted at home and wouldn't listed to anyone. At Carlbrook I had to, just as theis guest parent is saying about ASR. It's the same thing.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Oz girl

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« Reply #50 on: December 07, 2006, 05:41:55 PM »
I would say that no parent can really know for sure what goes on in a programme or speak for  their kid because they were not there. How many parents really knows what happens on a day to day basis when their kid is at a normal day school, or a regular boarding school? it is impossible because no kid tells their parents everything.I had loving parents annd a close family but of course they did not get told everyting that happened at school. This is because Adolescence is about breaking away to some extent.  When you take this ordinary fact of life and add an environment where a kid has to be outwardly enthusiastic to progress no parent can possibly get the whole truth from their kid only what they want to hear.

But a kid can give you their perspective. One thing i note is that many kids who have been in a programme and feel there were some benefits is that they dont often actually deny the awful bits. therefore it is better to ask how the good parts if any could actually happen without the need to be sent to some crass cash cow which at best controls thoughts and at worse does fucking dreadful things that anyone with a heart would not inflict on their worse enemy. Just because I am not going to deny a kids experience does not mean that i like much about this meanspirited and exploitative industry.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
n case you\'re worried about what\'s going to become of the younger generation, it\'s going to grow up and start worrying about the younger generation.-Roger Allen

Offline Anne Bonney

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« Reply #51 on: December 07, 2006, 11:13:50 PM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
Why is it that when we shared these same sort of positive comments about Carlbrook we were trashed and the whole thing became another beating up of KareninDallas?  butterfly and I had valid things to say, and re-reading the threads it appears others did as well, but got run off or had their contact information spewed all over the threads.  
you act like Milk is some kind of exception- he is the way everyone saying the slightest good thing about a school is treated now matter what.  Go back to the other ASR or Carlbrook discussions- its the same thing over and over.
no-I could not accomplish at home what I did at Carlbrook. i did whatever I wanted at home and wouldn't listed to anyone. At Carlbrook I had to, just as theis guest parent is saying about ASR. It's the same thing.


No, I've talked with you guys about Carlbrook before.  It starts out just like what I try to do here but then it really is either Karen or  someone similar and then you get trashed and run off.  And if by some chance I am mistaken, the opportunity is here now...in the appropriate Carlbrook thread of course.  Carpe diem.  If Milk comes along and trashes you, ignore him and deal with those that aren't.  But as soon as we find out you're Karen, Sue or one of the other ST or PURE idiots that we've dealt with time after time, I'll be right there alongside Milk trashing away and I'm sure I won't be alone.  There's a difference between someone truly asking for information or talking about their real experiences and the bullshit you spit out.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline Anne Bonney

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« Reply #52 on: December 07, 2006, 11:28:31 PM »
I just went back and re-read the last few pages of that thread you're referring to.  You and Butterfly had plenty of opportunity to carry on a discussion about it.  We started to. I asked questions. They were ignored and you were exposed.  The conversation might have actually gone somewhere if you hadn't shown up and been the fucking moron that you are.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline nalex18

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« Reply #53 on: December 07, 2006, 11:48:46 PM »
Quote from: ""Oz girl""
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""
Why?  Why do you want to run anyone off that isn't militantly opposed to programs?  I personally AM militantly opposed to all of them but I'd like to be able to carry on a discussion with someone who thinks differently.  Someone like Karen or Sue, yes....they should be slammed every time they post, but someone coming on and talking about their actual experiences, even though I may vehemently disagree with them, should be afforded the opportunity to explain why they feel the  way they do.  It makes for interesting debate, which I believe is the whole point of a forum, no?

I agree whole heartedly anne. i also find it ironic that someone who claims to hate programmes is using bully tactics not dissimilar. Any comment that any poster makes which he does not like is considered trolling and results in a psycho personal attack.

My question to Nylex is what good do you think ASR did for you?
do you think the same positive thing could have been achieved at home without the programme?
If so how?
How was the costa rica trip for you?


 After ASR I no longer acted out. I used to lash out at my family but I don't do that much now. Unfortunately, as for the underlying causes of my outward behaviors, ASR did not do much.

Costa Rica was hard physically as well as emotionally. It was hard for me to enjoy such a beautiful place under the circumstances.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #54 on: January 28, 2007, 10:47:42 PM »
My son was at ASR when base camp existed (he hated it) and  he really changed a lot in Costa Rica (he apparently loved it.) He has written many essays (in others schools--he was only 15 when he left ASR) and I can think of no reason he would "lie" subsequently. He loved CR. I can certainly agree that giving the party line back could be a serious problem if groups were as coercive as described but that my son was still writing about CR in college admission essays seems uncoerced to me.

My son kept all his written work--even the self study which I guess was a severe punishment, although he did not describe it as such at the time. However, reading it (with him) years later, he explained his thought processes and it seems that he gained from putting his thoughts into writing. If he had to sit that would have been fine with him--standing at a meeting would not have been. However, the content of the self-study really seems to be the point and it is self-evidently valuable to him and to me, sharing it later.

I agree te education was mediocre but since my son did not like school anyway, I don't think there was a lot lost in 14 months. He did better in school upon returning home, so I think his increased motivation for living allowed him to catch up whatever was poorly taught (or not taught) at ASR. His SAT scores were fine but maybe they would have been anyway with or without ASR.

Currently my son is 19 and a student in NYC. He is in contact with several members of his peer group and most are doing OK--the exceptions seem to be those with heavy drug problems when they entered. That was not a problem for my son  but I wondered when he was there if those students who were clearly addicted to drugs were well served in the program at ASR.

I think program match is important. I did not use an educational consultant. I wanted a program that was structured but not strict b-mod, had no sports teams and had an "artsy" student population where violence was not tolerated. The day before our first family resolution, a member of the peer group was kicked out for hitting someone. Although I was sorry for that boy, I was very glad my son was in a program where that would happen; if my son had felt bullied, he never would have opened his mouth.

While he was there, my son filed a complaint in writing against the PE teacher because he thought he was too much like a drill sergeant. This complaint was treated seriously and the PE teacher left. My son was depressed and rather shy (but very compassionate) so it is hard for me to reconcile what I am reading with him filing a complaint. If he had felt unsafe, he would not have done that.

Finally, I thought the consulting psychiatrist's approach to medication was cautious (which is good) and far better than we had experienced in the community--where meds are thrown around too freely IMO. Like another parent, my son had a say in his meds--mainly trying to find one that would lift the depression with the fewest side effects.

In short, I know no program is above criticism but getting away from the public school bullies (and then finishing h.s. at a private day school) gave my son the break he needed to get some perspective that adulthood could work for him if he could survive childhood.

As far as the person who said parents were not supposed to come to the weekends?? Every parent of the kids in the peer group was there including divorced parents who were not otherwise speaking. One child's parent could not go the CR and she appeared unhappy about that. Every other family had one  or both parents in CR.

I was directed to this site by someone who is very confused about what to do for her son--she has exhausted local options and she fears the looming drug exposure in high school (with justification I think.) She knows me and my son well. She knows that I didn't just want to get rid of him for a while--and she can see how he has changed from a highly problematic young teen into a functional  young adult. I am interested in whether ASR positively contributed to that change--or as someone stated, he "just grew up." Some of each is possible--but I fear that at home with the bullies, the huge high school, and the potential for serious drug use, and suicidality, he would not have survived to grow up.

Just a Mom
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #55 on: January 28, 2007, 11:21:42 PM »
[troll7]
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Offline hanzomon4

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« Reply #56 on: January 29, 2007, 01:10:20 AM »
Just a mom, I suffer with clinical depression and survived without a program. Institutionalization should only be used for an immediate crisis and only short term in a mental hospital. If depression and bullying was your kids problem a real boarding school would be much better then a quasi therapeutic one.  

From what I have read in this thread I would have to say that ASR is not a place for the depressed or suicidal teen

Quote from: ""nalex18""
There were more kids who were dangers to themselves. I honestly think ASR is very lucky in that no one has succeeded in committing suicide. I can tell you first hand that for someone with major depression ASR could drive you past breaking point easily. It seemed like they pick and chose who they took seriously about being suicidal. I was not taken seriously, and had my roommate not been in the room one day, I may well have taken my life. I do not say that to evoke pity or anything else like that, and I was not using it to "manipulate" ( a favorite ASR term)

I hope you plan on sticking around, if you do please register    :D
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #57 on: January 29, 2007, 12:33:54 PM »
That's right, GMDP- resort to your usual troll-o-meter response.

Never mind that Just A Mom may offer some valuable information first-hand from her experiences- not just here-say. She has no motive other than to share her opinion of ASR. She doesn't come across as a "program parent" that is recommending ASR or any other program to others- just relaying how her son, regardless of ASR's role (positive or negative), is doing well today.

JustaMom-  That is great news that your son was able to get his life back on track (and glad to hear that most of his peer group, 4 years later are also doing well). ASR is currently following its graduates to see how they are doing- the data isn't in yet since they started to follow them within the past year or so,  but so far  most of the students in our track have been able to come back to a normal adolescent/young adult life.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #58 on: January 29, 2007, 01:39:36 PM »
No, it's bullshit, an utter fiction. And you're clearly both employees.

Do you honestly think we can't see through this shit? "Our track", the pure program-ese?  This schtick got old when HLA was doing it back on Fornits, with idiot after HLA idiot pretending to be students and parents. HLA is bleeding to death.

Do you honestly want to get into a fiction war with me? I can outwrite both of you without even thinking about it.
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Offline Troll Control

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« Reply #59 on: January 29, 2007, 03:25:52 PM »
Fight, fight, fight!!!
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