Level System

[Worried Dad]

On 2006-05-03 15:29:00, Paul Smith wrote:

"

Part of what the counsellor recommened was a book called, "Back In Control."

Which just so happens to be featured on Lon's site.



"Worried Dad", if you are for real and not yet another programmie troll (pardon our suspicion- we get a lot of them here), think: What else can you do with the money? Have you considered non-residential treatment programs? When did all this start? How much have you talked to your son about it? Did you tell him that things have gotten so bad, you're thinking about sending him away?



The other posters were right- a public jail beats a private TBS any day of the week.
"

Yes I've noticed what seemed to be troll posts myself.

I had no clue that book was featured there.  It was recommended to me by a therapist.  No he didn't recommend sending my son to one of these schools.  The book is still good in my opinion.  Don't throw the baby out with the bad.

Yes I'm real.  

Yes I can understand anger towards parents.  In my case I'm particularly tired of being blamed for my child's problems though.  If he's having problems, it's not necessarily the parents fault for it.  The therapists that my son and I have seen all have said it's not my fault.  My son even told one that he's not blaming me for his problems.  The therapist probably shouldn't have told me that, but it did make me feel better.

Okay I suppose there's more people that want to flame me so get it out of your systems.  I'll try to keep my mouth shut. lol

Oh and if someone has a resource of where I can find something that would help my son other than one of these WWASP programs I'd be grateful.  Again, I'm not planning to send my son to a WWASP now, thanks. lol

[CCM girl 1989]

On 2006-05-03 15:26:00, Worried Dad wrote:

"Okay, I've said it before though perhaps not strongly enough, I'm not sending my son there.  You're answers other than one person here, have been great, thanks."

How funny! I guess I hit a nerve? Your telling me that there is no way you can sweet talk that judge into giving him another opportunity for success under your supervision? Sounds to me like you are giving up way too easily. Maybe you want your child to just go away, so you can feel like you can tell your family and friends it wasn't my choice, it was the courts! Boo-hoo!

Whatever, I guess the judge might be seeing something that we may not. Maybe it's apparent to them that you are not a good parent, and never will be. Maybe they feel like they are doing your son a favor by sending him away from you?

I'm not this angry person you make me out to be! I just think people like you are weak, and make a bunch of excuses of why it's not your fault.

I'm 99.99999% sure it is you who needs the therapy. I am not here on Fornits asking for advice on what to do with my life, or my relationships.

I've shared my experiences, and made a few friends. I offer outside the box thinking for those parents open to hearing it.

Sorry if I offended, or struck a nerve. But, I will not be losing sleep over it.

[Troll Control]

Yes I can understand anger towards parents. In my case I'm particularly tired of being blamed for my child's problems though. If he's having problems, it's not necessarily the parents fault for it. The therapists that my son and I have seen all have said it's not my fault. My son even told one that he's not blaming me for his problems. The therapist probably shouldn't have told me that, but it did make me feel better.

Some good parents have problems with their kids too.  It happens.

Whether or not that's the case with you is irrelevent though.  It's not about you right now.  Just try to gain some perspective from people who legitimately, no matter how they express it, hold your child in the highest regard and would do literally almost anything to help him if they could.  This is where grownups are supposed to be able to examine the situation critically and make good decisions.  Don't let your own feelings get in the way of your best judgement.

Honestly, to me, you seem like a pretty measured guy.  I really see no reason why you shouldn't be able to get all the facts on the table before you act.  I think you'll probably do alright.

[Troll Control]

I've shared my experiences, and made a few friends. I offer outside the box thinking for those parents open to hearing it.

I must say that this is true.  You do give creative and thoughtful advice.

Now be nice! :wink:

[Anonymous]

CCM, *STFU*. This gentleman is acting real enough and there's no sense in treating him like yet another hopeless programmie parent. He obviously gives a damn. Let's focus on saving the kid instead of pissing the dad off, shall we?

I say again: Non-residential treatment. You might want to start here: http://www.colorado.edu/cspv/blueprints ... rview.html

Also, why don't you bring him to this board, WD? Get him to put in writing what the hell is going on.

[CCM girl 1989]

Come on DJ!!!! You're letting this guy get off the hook way too easily. You're telling me if he personally talks to the judge, and begs him for another chance, and has his plan put together on what he is going to do as a parent, to turn this kid around, the judge wouldn't give him another chance?!!

What state do these people live in?

[CCM girl 1989]

On 2006-05-03 15:54:00, Paul Smith wrote:

"CCM, *STFU*. This gentleman is acting real enough and there's no sense in treating him like yet another hopeless programmie parent. He obviously gives a damn. Let's focus on saving the kid instead of pissing the dad off, shall we?



I say again: Non-residential treatment. You might want to start here: http://www.colorado.edu/cspv/blueprints ... rview.html



Also, why don't you bring him to this board, WD? Get him to put in writing what the hell is going on."

Fine, I will let him speak. But, I am rather tired of parents letting their kids be taken away so easily.

I will try, and play nice. But, I am not going to STFU! So get used to it.

Get it? Got it? Good!!!!

[Troll Control]

On 2006-05-03 15:55:00, CCM girl 1989 wrote:

"Come on DJ!!!! You're letting this guy get off the hook way too easily. You're telling me if he personally talks to the judge, and begs him for another chance, and has his plan put together on what he is going to do as a parent, to turn this kid around, the judge wouldn't give him another chance?!!



What state do these people live in?



"

I do whatever it takes to make my point.  I don't let anyone off easy.  Why do you think I have my own personal troll?  Actually, three of them.

I implore, I order, I browbeat, I lecture,I cajole, I shame, I appeal to the sense of decency.  I do it all.  I just genuinely think that this guy has already started to think long and hard about what an important moment this is in his child's life and will do right by him.

If I didn't think so, I'd kick him in his ass. And I'd ask you to help.

[Anonymous]

Dad:

Your child has ODD, that is a true diagnosis.  If your child stole once, is doing poorly in school, etc., I'd say that's very characteristic.  It sounds like he needs proper treatment.

100%, go with CYA.  Your child will see fistfights, etc. but he's already dabbling with that and would also see that at WWASP.  He will be offered a valid education, therapy, and courses on making different choices.  He will not be forbidden to speak with you or see you, so you'll have a better idea that he's safe.  There are not unreasonable expectations to rise in levels and then the littlest offenses drop you forever.  It's not a money game like the ones WWASP plays, asking you to pay for activities, toothpaste, etc. as if the $4000 or more tuition couldn't cover it.  

No system is perfect.  Your son made some choices and has to live with the consequences.  I am in my 20s and can now laugh at my teenage follies.  Even though it seems like the end of the world right now, hang in there.

[Worried Dad]

On 2006-05-03 15:29:00, Paul Smith wrote:

"

Part of what the counsellor recommened was a book called, "Back In Control."

Which just so happens to be featured on Lon's site.



"Worried Dad", if you are for real and not yet another programmie troll (pardon our suspicion- we get a lot of them here), think: What else can you do with the money? Have you considered non-residential treatment programs? When did all this start? How much have you talked to your son about it? Did you tell him that things have gotten so bad, you're thinking about sending him away?



The other posters were right- a public jail beats a private TBS any day of the week.
"

Well it started probably in the fifth grade.  He's in high school now.  He's been failing every class since then.  I had a similar problem with my oldest who turned around when he turned 16.  It might just be a maturity thing yes.  My oldest wasn't quite a bad as this one though.

His mother and I split up when he was in the sixth grade.  We share custody of him.  She insisted on full custody, but we comprised on shared custody.  I'd prefer to have full custody, but it would cost around $10,000 to get it and would involve a lot of stuff that might not be good for him.  You can bash her all you want, I don't care. lol.  

Yes I've threatened to send him away before but I wasn't serious.  The only reason I've considered it now is because I was concerned about him being exposed to hard-core kids that might hurt him.  He's an expert fighter and all but that doesn't always matter.  Again based on what I've seen from you guys and other sources, public jail seems better.  The ironic part is I'll be charged, from what I'm hearing, $1,000/month for him to stay there.  I'm still worried he'll be injured or traumatized in some way while he's there too.  I don't see a way around it though.  He's had several chances already.

Yes non-residential treatment would be great.  It would require him to do it voluntarily though.  Even though he's been ordered by the court to see a therapist, it's been a struggle to get him to go.  He's not really interested in therapy.

The biggest mistake I made is making the assumption that stealing a $37 tip jar could only be a minor crime.  I didn't want to hire a lawyer for my son for what I thought would be petty theft at the most.  I advised my son to confess and get it over with.  We'll the DA used his confession to secure the Commercial Burglery charge,  a felony.  Moral, never, ever, confess to a crime no matter how trivial you think it might be.

I don't really expect parenting advice from anyone here.  Some people here might even be experts in the field, but I have no way of knowing that.  However, It'd be cool if anyone wants to share reputable links to something that would work.  That one link that was shared looks okay.  My kid isn't really violent though, nor am I.  That seems to be to focus of that link too.

I've been dealing with this situation for years.  I'm pretty tired of talking about it.  Talking about it with him hasn't helped.  Talking about it with people, other than therapists, has caused me mainly grief like today.  You've heard the old joke, "Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one."  Most of you here have been great though, thanks.

[Irish Mom]

Worried Dad...

I am truly sorry for what you're going through with your son.  I also think it's great that you chose to come to this site for info before just blindly putting your child in some place for others to deal with.  I can't begin to know what you're going through and I just pray that my son never chooses that path to follow.  He's still young, but it won't be too long before he's a teenager and I'm really starting to dread it...lol!  Oh the horror stories I've heard!  

All I can say is I've worked in one of the WWASP facilities and I just hope you continue to do your homework and NOT put your son in one of them.  They don't help these kids and the ones that do seem to be doing ok are few and far between.  I think they would have been fine anyway, but of course WWASP takes the credit for their wonderful turnaround.  

Keep looking into anything you can to keep your son out of a facility of anykind, be it private or public.

My thoughts and prayers are with you and your son...Good Luck!

[Anonymous]

Worried Dad, Horizon Academy is NOT accredited. The link you posted leads to a list of programs/schools "accredited" by the Northwest Accreditation organization. Anyone who wants to get accredited by them has to pay a fee and be "reviewed" by a "team of peers"-- in WWASPS's case, their own executives. There is no REAL accrediting going on.

Read more here:
http://www.isaccorp.org

[Worried Dad]

On 2006-05-03 18:17:00, Three Springs Waygookin wrote:

"You lost me.





You are tired of dealing with your child?



Sorry for my abruptness but are you some sort of asshole who dispenses with their children like a used tampon as soon as the tampon gets a bit grotty?



Now it comes out that your were divorced when he was in the 6th grade. Seriously sherlock do some googling on the studies done showing children of divorced parents and their problems. Most of the kids I have dealt with in TBS had parents either being divorced, or were divorced.



Friggin pitiful considered that the parents would still go at each other like a hat full of ass with the child watching the whole fucked up show.



Now it makes alot more sense, and your best bet would be to consider some family counseling with you, your ex, and your boy considering this all started with the divorce. Not to get back together, but to help your boy understand it ain't gonna happen, but no matter what he is still loved, and the divorce certainly isn't his fault.
...

Where did I say I've dispensed with him?

Do you really believe that I don't know that divorce is harmful to children?  Of course I'm sure you're aware that staying married in some cases might do more harm to the child than getting divorced too.  How is informing of this going to help my kid?

Family therapy will only work if he wants to go, which he doesn't.  My ex is not interested in going either.  I'd be happy to do this if it were an option.  Even when he was ordered by the court to attend therapy he'd vanish sometimes when it was time for an appointment.  

Now in case anyone hasn't read my previous messages I've decided against sending him to a WWASP program.  I only considered because he's facing one to three years in a public jail.  I've heard from a few here that a WWASP would be worse and I've no reason to doubt it.  Maybe I should add this to my signature? lol

[Worried Dad]

On 2006-05-03 20:20:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Worried Dad, Horizon Academy is NOT accredited. The link you posted leads to a list of programs/schools "accredited" by the Northwest Accreditation organization. Anyone who wants to get accredited by them has to pay a fee and be "reviewed" by a "team of peers"-- in WWASPS's case, their own executives. There is no REAL accrediting going on.



Read more here:

http://www.isaccorp.org"

Yes that's what I was afraid of, thanks.  It sounds a lot like the "Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval."  It just means they paid for it.

[Anonymous]

I think people keep adding WWASP comments despite the fact that you say you've decided against it is because the sales reps will say anything to make a commission.  They're going to give you follow up calls and tell you that it's just one person here on Fornits and that the thousand people on Myspace are all lying about the abuse.