Level System

[Anonymous]

As abusive and dangerous as juvenile detention facilities can be, the abuse, suffering, and psychological damage caused by private facilities is far worse. At least in the CYA he'll have some minimal rights-- being able to be visited by his parents, make phone calls, have some sort of an education, etc. He will NOT get these things at a WWASPS facility like Horizon. In Horizon, he'll be expected to "earn" the "right" to maintain contact w/ his parents-- that can take anywhere from weeks to months to years.

The educational program at these facilities is NOT regionally accredited, and therefor, meaningless. It doesn't even include real classroom teaching. In all WWASPS facilities, the children simply read booklets, then fill out multiple choice tests, which are checked by "educational aides"-- employees who often have no qualifications whatsoever. Essentially, the children are expected to teach themselves.

Not to mention the lack of therapy, excessive use of solitary confinement and other extreme measures, EST-style seminars, psychological and physical abuse...

[CCM girl 1989]

Another case of too little too late. Amazing just amazing! Okay, so you have an 18 year old kid doing well. But your younger son is struggling? Prime example, one size parenting does not fit all. You think he is mentally ill? Perhaps he is chemically imbalanced, but you are just realizing this now?

So, okay.........will it be equal amounts of time that he'll have to spend in CYA or New Horizons? How long is that?

[Worried Dad]

On 2006-05-03 13:03:00, CCM girl 1989 wrote:

"Another case of too little too late. Amazing just amazing! Okay, so you have an 18 year old kid doing well. But your younger son is struggling? Prime example, one size parenting does not fit all. You think he is mentally ill? Perhaps he is chemically imbalanced, but you are just realizing this now?



So, okay.........will it be equal amounts of time that he'll have to spend in CYA or New Horizons? How long is that?



"

Thanks for your answer.  I have taken him to counselling, when he'd go.  The counsellor suggested that I take him to a psychiatrist.  He thought he might be suffering from depression.  The psychiatrist prescribed an anti-depressant to see if this would make things better.  My son took it for a few weeks, then quit.  I have no way of making him take medications either.  It wasn't until earlier this year I learned about Oppositional Defiant Disorder.  He may be suffering from that.  A few years ago I managed to get the school to test him for learning disablities, he doesn't have any of those.  They didn't bother to suggest or test him for emotional disorders at that time though.  

I've spent a lot of time with him over the years too.  The boy has a Red Belt with a Black stripe in Taekwondo thanks to me.  He and I took classes together for a long time until he decided to quit a couple of years ago.  He didn't care that I had to pay for another year even though he wasn't attending or that he was one step away from Black Belt.  

Anyway again thank you for sharing your opinion about my parenting ability.  I hope you never have a situation like mine.

[Worried Dad]

On 2006-05-03 13:02:00, Anonymous wrote:

"As abusive and dangerous as juvenile detention facilities can be, the abuse, suffering, and psychological damage caused by private facilities is far worse. At least in the CYA he'll have some minimal rights-- being able to be visited by his parents, make phone calls, have some sort of an education, etc. He will NOT get these things at a WWASPS facility like Horizon. In Horizon, he'll be expected to "earn" the "right" to maintain contact w/ his parents-- that can take anywhere from weeks to months to years.



The educational program at these facilities is NOT regionally accredited, and therefor, meaningless. It doesn't even include real classroom teaching. In all WWASPS facilities, the children simply read booklets, then fill out multiple choice tests, which are checked by "educational aides"-- employees who often have no qualifications whatsoever. Essentially, the children are expected to teach themselves.



Not to mention the lack of therapy, excessive use of solitary confinement and other extreme measures, EST-style seminars, psychological and physical abuse... "

Your answer is helpful, thanks.  Yes I'm in a rush to get as much information on this as possible before I make a decision.  

So CYA would be better?  Yikes. :sad:

I found Horizon Academy did have an accredidation.  I'm not sure what it's worth though.  http://www.boisestate.edu/naas/schools/newschools.shtml

[Worried Dad]

It also seems to be licensed by the state of Nevada.  http://dcfs.state.nv.us/ChildCareDocs/C ... tyList.pdf

I'm still not convinced that this would be a good option.  

What's my best option, any ideas?

[Troll Control]

Oppositional Defiant Disorder

Dad, first let me say that I commend you for looking to get some first-hand accounts before you send your kid anywhere.  Good start.

Second, I need to inform you that the term "ODD" is a contrived diagnosis brought into the psychiatric lexicon for one and only one purpose: to medically justify charging for behavior modification programs.  If you don't believe this, do some research on your own and you will see that this dx is going to be dropped in the next revision of the DSM and is not used by any mainstream practitioners whatsoever.  The only persons handing out the dx of "ODD" are shill practitioners working for programs (referrral fees), Ed Cons (referral fees) and the programs themselves (direct profit).

It is worthy to note that "ODD," as it is actually defined in the DSM is overwhelmingly a childhood (NOT adolescent) problem where over 90% of bonafide cases are in patients UNDER TEN YEARS OLD.  This is not a catch-all for normal teenage defiance of parental authority.

Let me make a suggestion, if you will.  Go back to a psychologist that specializes in adolescents and psychometric testing.  Have your son FULLY evaluated.  If there is no psychopathology found, there is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON to send him to a behavior modification facility (BTW, over 50 years of research shows BM has no positive effects upon behavior outside of a carefully controlled environment).

Do the legwork.  Go to a reputable professional with NO TIES or AFFILIATION with the BM industry and get a full battery work-up.

You can always consider an outpatient program in your community and Functional Family Therapy which are proven recipes for success in treating children with mental hygiene issues.  Again, if testing reveals NO PSYCHOPATHOLOGY (over 80% of children in the BM warehouses have NO diagnosable problems) then there can be NO JUSTIFICATION for ANY placement outside your home.

Good luck and let us know what you find.

_________________
"Compassion is the basis of morality."

-Arnold Schopenhauer[ This Message was edited by: Dysfunction Junction on 2006-05-03 14:13 ]

[CCM girl 1989]

Dear Worried Dad,

I pretty much can guarantee that I will never let my child down. So, please don't worry about that.

Oppositional Defiant Disorder? Excuse my french......but what the fuck is that?!! It sounds to me like he is a child coming into young adulthood realizing that he doesn't have to do what he is told. So what? Now we are labeling him.....BFD!!!!

So, he got himself into some trouble. Now he has to pay the consequences. It sounds to me to be a little harsh. Is there something you are not telling us?

[Troll Control]

Horizon Academy

There's a lot of useful information here.  Keep in mind that WWASPS (parent company of Horizon) is widely known and documented (PROVEN) to be extremely abusive and fraudulent.

They have had facilities forcibly closed by the govt's of Mexico, Costa Rica and the Czech Republic (where there aren't even usual basic human rights laws) for using "therapy" like stun guns, cattle prods, pepper spray, confinement in dog cages, starvation and forced labor.

 :skull: STAY AWAY FROM WWASPS, PERIOD. :skull:

[Worried Dad]

On 2006-05-03 14:12:00, CCM girl 1989 wrote:

"Dear Worried Dad,



I pretty much can guarantee that I will never let my child down. So, please don't worry about that.



Oppositional Defiant Disorder? Excuse my french......but what the fuck is that?!! It sounds to me like he is a child coming into young adulthood realizing that he doesn't have to do what he is told. So what? Now we are labeling him.....BFD!!!!



So, he got himself into some trouble. Now he has to pay the consequences. It sounds to me to be a little harsh. Is there something you are not telling us?



"

Thank you for your kind and informative reply.  

No the only other crimes he's been involved with are truancies.  Nobody was injured when the tip jar was taken and nothing was broken.  The DA wants to make an example out of my son so he's facing one to three years.

I'm not going to be responding to you anymore, thanks.[ This Message was edited by: Worried Dad on 2006-05-03 14:43 ]

[Troll Control]

I'm not going to be responding to you anymore. Go get some therapy you clearly have issues.

Was this really called for?  The same could be said about you, but people are trying to help you and your son.

Good advice sometimes comes from strange places...

[Worried Dad]

...
Was this really called for?  The same could be said about you, but people are trying to help you and your son.

Good advice sometimes comes from strange places...

_________________
"Compassion is the basis of morality."

-Arnold Schopenhauer

Yes well I have been going to therapy over this, thanks.  

She seems to be a part of the ignorant crowd that believes that if the children have problems then it's the parents fault all the time.  

Part of what the counsellor recommened was a book called, "Back In Control."  It's a great book too.  It doesn't work in my situation though.  I don't know where my son is most of the time.  Nor can I find him when I look for him.  The only thing I did learn from it was that I need to let my son know that I love him and try to win him over to my side.  I haven't had much luck with that yet.  I'm not giving up though.[ This Message was edited by: Worried Dad on 2006-05-03 15:23 ]

[Nihilanthic]

On 2006-05-03 14:59:00, Worried Dad wrote:

"

On 2006-05-03 14:45:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:


"

I'm not going to be responding to you anymore. Go get some therapy you clearly have issues.

Was this really called for?  The same could be said about you, but people are trying to help you and your son.





Good advice sometimes comes from strange places...

"

I let her bash me as a parent twice before.  I'm trying hard.  I don't need abuse like that from someone that doesn't know me from Adam.  Besides, she does sound like she is dealing with a lot of anger.  Perhaps she has good reason for it as well.  She doesn't need to direct it at me though.



Your answer was great thanks.  I suppose I'll ask my sons lawyer to attempt to delay this hearing until I can get my son tested by someone reputable.  The school is going to drag their feet until they don't have to do anything."

Hate to break it to you, almost as much as I hate to REPEAT this, but in 30+ years of existance (for the industry at large) not one program has proven theyre effective, reduce recidivism, or have any good effects at all! The only thing they can do is isolate your child from the outside world, completely, but then youre trading his freedom to do bad things, to the certainty of bad things being done TO him.

Programs dont work, and "wilderness" doesnt work, period. Theres zero proof, theres zero evidence, just emotional appeals from the apologists and anecdotes that are utterly useless.

Furthermore, based on what they admit, and what we've found out, their model is not therapeutic at all. Its just behavior modification - which only 'works' as far as making them do what you want so they dont have to be punished anymore, and/or a short-term effect from the psychological regression from the programs practices (most notably LGAT seminars of various guises) that wears off as soon as the staffers and oldcomers arent around to bust him down a level, or 'restain' him in pain compliance holds for a few hours.

Theyre culty, anachronistic, and by and large out there to make the parents happy, but not actualy help the kids in any way. The most that might happen is that they simply grow up while in the program, but coallation is not causation - you might as well send kids to programs for having a cold, and let them out when theyre over the cold, and let the program claim responsibility for it.

BTW, have you ever thought about what a program does to a 'good' kid who was put in by a sucker of a parent? Or a 'good' kid who was sent becuase he or she was abused, thinking shed get real treatment, but instead was treated just like everyone else? Theyre stupid cults, no more, no less.

Seperate your own feelings and your own need for relief from worry from what your child needs, and your responsibility to protect him from abuse and ensure actual therapy. Some kids just need to grow up, and a program is one of the worst places to do that. Look at whose sharing facts and details, vs generalized emotional nonsense - and youll see all of this for yourself.

Im sorry theres no easy answer for him, but there are a lot of people who will give YOU the easy answer for a few thousand dollars a month.

That fact alone is where a lot of the hatred comes from - a lot of people are sick of parents abdicating responsibility for their own relief and ignoring the fact that these places dont actually DO anything but warehouse the kid long enough for him to grow up, or reach the age of majority so its not the parents problem anymore.

Im not saying you did, or will do that, but I am saying everyone here doesnt want to see that happen again, but have grown to expect it.

[Worried Dad]

Okay, I've said it before though perhaps not strongly enough, I'm not sending my son there.  You're answers other than one person here, have been great, thanks.

[Troll Control]

I let her bash me as a parent twice before. I'm trying hard. I don't need abuse like that from someone that doesn't know me from Adam. Besides, she does sound like she is dealing with a lot of anger. Perhaps she has good reason for it as well. She doesn't need to direct it at me though.

Well, I don't know her personally, but I do know her story from talking on here and, yes, I think there would unresolved feelings surrounding her treatment at the hands of uneducated pseudo-therapuetic organized child abusers.  But listen, isn't that why were all here in a sense?  Because we're having problems and are looking for that one thing we didn't think of ourselves?  Or we're here looking to help others avoid our mistakes?  Or both?

In any case, she wants your child to get the best possible care he can get for whatever ails him.  Our diagnoses are all the same, if you will, but we all write different 'scripts for it.  

I think a lot of us are a little short with parents because of a segment of the parent population that are clearly the causes of and their children's problems and also are equally as clearly an obstacle to a solution for the very problems they've helped to create.  I personally have dealt with dozens of them and I (like CCM) can see the BS coming well in advance because we know what it looks like from years of experience and education and when the BS meter starts to oscillate it gets a reaction.  I don't think any one of us would disagree with that statement.

Now, that having been said, I feel the intrinsic value of being told the truth and understanding it greatly outweighs the discomfort of having to look at the facts with sober skepticism - so I tell you the straight dope right from the start.  Experience tells me to cut to the chase because I know the dance already.  I can skip the Pas de Deux.

[Anonymous]

Part of what the counsellor recommened was a book called, "Back In Control."

Which just so happens to be featured on Lon's site.

"Worried Dad", if you are for real and not yet another programmie troll (pardon our suspicion- we get a lot of them here), think: What else can you do with the money? Have you considered non-residential treatment programs? When did all this start? How much have you talked to your son about it? Did you tell him that things have gotten so bad, you're thinking about sending him away?

The other posters were right- a public jail beats a private TBS any day of the week.