Rats are scurrying....

[RobertBruce]

How can you trust the web site!! And you establish she is unqualified?.Hmmmm..and you stated HLA needs oversight

While I can see HLA embellishing its staffs credentials I cant see them making them appear unqualified. Do you have a basis for this argument or are you just clutching at straws? Oh and yes HLA needs a great deal of oversight.

Again, these seem to be your personal requirements. I was looking more for some established/acceptable guidelines, by someone who is more qualified than yourself.

Interesting coming from you, the guy who consistently talks about things he knows nothing about. I was offering my personal opinion as did you on the matter. As to what the state requires I could only guess. However a few well placed calls to the board of education or the health dept should answer those requirement questions. Irregardless however it would probably be a safe bet to say some amount of credentials are required. Since we have established according to HLA's information these girls have none they would appear to be in violation.

Maybe a doctor or nurse who is not on staff seeing that they fired the nurse. Any interim process would not be reflected on their website, unless they were using ?realtime? data flow.

No we no for a fact there is no doctor on staff nor is there any visits made by any doctor or nurse, to see patients or otherwise. Thanks for trying though.

It doesn?t seem that a problem has been established. A nurse was fired, and a person with unknown credentials is dispensing the meds, that?s all we know. Is it a red flag? You bet. Is it a problem? We don?t know. Do we know what is required? No

Many many problems have been established. You are fixated on trying to discount this one desperatly wanting to prove a point that you dont have. How much sense to even a simpleton like yourself to say that in any state in the US that school nurses are not required to have any education or training whatsoever nor are they required to be supervised. Think really.

[RobertBruce]

On 2006-05-28 20:58:00, TheWho wrote:

"Its getting late, got to run.  Let me leave you with these thoughts which I think should help resolve the issue.



1)   Find out and/or define what is an acceptable process for dispensing meds (Chain of med handling down to the dispenser).

2)   Determine what their present (interim) process is.

3)   Determine the credentials needed to dispense medication in Ga.

4)   Determine the credentials of the person dispensing the meds today at HLA.



Compare Items 1 and 2  This will tell you if HLA?s process is out of control.  Compare Items 3 and 4 This will tell us if they have unqualified people.

"

Youre the one interested you find out.

In the meantime the parents can be left with this:

HLA currently has no trained or qualified staff attending your childs medical needs including the dispensing of meds.

The state of GA in all likelyhood has certian requirements that need to be met concerning providing medical care or handling medication.

You pay almost 100,000.00 dollars to have your child taken care and they are being denied proper care.

Demand answers to this and the dozens of other established problems brought up by the people posting on this site. Remember your child cannot speak to you freely.

[TheWho]

HLA currently has no trained or qualified staff attending your childs medical needs including the dispensing of meds.

This, once again, is just a guess.  They lost an employee and need to backfill like any other company does everyday.

The state of GA in all likelyhood has certian requirements that need to be met concerning providing medical care or handling medication

This is just a guess, like saying Microsoft is probably violating some OSHA requirements.  But nobody has checked because they probably meet all standard practices, as do most schools.  If they are so desperate to discredit HLA you would think they could just find one requirement they violate

You pay almost 100,000.00 dollars to have your child taken care and they are being denied proper care.

Sorry this statement is false, he obviously doesn?t know what he is talking about.  Claims to know about HLA and what is going on ?.. Interesting ?? no credibility left.

Demand answers to this and the dozens of other established problems brought up by the people posting on this site. Remember your child cannot speak to you freely.

Yes, you should always ask questions, but the above shows someone pulling the fire alarm again and again and a again only to find no problems.  Remember no facts have been presented.

[Anonymous]

Seems like the only rats that are scurrying are Dysfunction and Robert Bruce. HLA clicks along.....
:silly:

[RobertBruce]

This, once again, is just a guess. They lost an employee and need to backfill like any other company does everyday.

Afraid not. HLA list its staffs credentials on its website. Not only do they not have any medical staff being listed, but they have a person filling in who apparently neither went to college or was trained in any professional manner.

This is just a guess, like saying Microsoft is probably violating some OSHA requirements. But nobody has checked because they probably meet all standard practices, as do most schools. If they are so desperate to discredit HLA you would think they could just find one requirement they violate

Again you speak on a matter you know nothing about. This board has been nothing but presenting violation after violation after violation on HLA since its inception. Most of which are fully documented and can be verified independently. You however are still stuck on this one problem because you think can prove or disprove something when anyone with half a brain knows HLA is in violation here. Are you honestly going to argue that the state of Georgia has no minimum requirements for who can be handling medication or serve as a school nurse?

Here I'll make it easier for you this is from the national council of saftey boards of nursing.

Here's what defines a nurse: Advanced nursing practice" means practice by a registered professional nurse who meets those educational, practice, certification requirements, or any combination of such requirements, as specified by the board and includes certified nurse midwives, nurse practitioners, certified registered nurse anesthetists, clinical nurse specialists in psychiatric/mental health, and others recognized by the board.

And here's what they can legally do: "Practice nursing" or "practice of nursing" means to perform for compensation or the performance for compensation of any act in the care and counsel of the ill, injured, or infirm, and in the promotion and maintenance of health with individuals, groups, or both throughout the life span. It requires substantial specialized knowledge of the humanities, natural sciences, social sciences, and nursing theory as a basis for assessment, nursing diagnosis, planning, intervention, and evaluation. It includes, but is not limited to, provision of nursing care; administration, supervision, evaluation, or any combination thereof, of nursing practice; teaching; counseling; the administration of medications and treatments as prescribed by a physician practicing medicine in accordance with Article 2 of Chapter 34 of this title, or a dentist practicing dentistry in accordance with Chapter 11 of this title, or a podiatrist practicing podiatry in accordance with Chapter 35 of this title.

Now given the fact that these two receptionist apparently never went to so much as community college please tell me how you feel they arent in violation?

You get back to me.

Sorry this statement is false, he obviously doesn?t know what he is talking about. Claims to know about HLA and what is going on ?.. Interesting ?? no credibility left.

You still seem to feel credibility with you matters. All you do is talk about matters and concerns you have no knowledge of and seek to appear educated on matters you know nothing about. But I'll give you a chance to elaborate.

Please tell us how regurarly denying children toilet paper or routinely forcing them to go for days at a time without running water is somehow okay. If you can argue that it is I have many other issues Id be interested in hearing you try to defend.

Yes, you should always ask questions, but the above shows someone pulling the fire alarm again and again and a again only to find no problems. Remember no facts have been presented.

HAHAHAHA please tell me how you know no facts have been presented...since the fact remains you know nothing about HLA?

Parents you can choose between the person who belongs to a group of people who have worked at HLA, lived at HLA, or had a child placed at HLA versus one jackass who has never seen it, never set foot upon it, never dealt with it, and knows nothing about it. Which of these two is going to be the more credible source?

[SHH]

If we were comparing this situation to my child's elementary school, then it would seem that his school is the same. In our school system, they cannot afford a nurse for every school every day. They have traveling nurses. The nurse visits my child's school once a week. However, on the days that she is not there, someone has to give out meds. In this case, it IS the receptionist, IE, the front desk lady who greets people and answers the phone. She is not a nurse, however, this appears to be fine to the school board. So, if Georgia has the same regulations as North Carolina, maybe its possible that in the event of a temporary absence of a nurse, that someone "designated" can dole out meds. Just a thought. But I do think the ACTUAL regulation should be determined for Georgia before conclusions are made as to whether this is illegal or not.

[RobertBruce]

This makes sense however there are a couple of issues.

1. The actual nurse may handle the meds whereas the receptionist simply passes them out. HLA has no "traveling nurse"

2. If a kid at your sons school is really sick or injured he has the luxury of going home. In all likelyhood no more than a 20 min or so drive. HLA kids are are often to far from home to afford that luxury.

3. This receptionist is playing nurse full time not just dispensing meds she knows nothing about but providing basic medical care she is unqualified and untrained to do.

[Anonymous]

In our public school the front desk lady is
allowed to dispense prescription medications with written approval from the parents and a Dr.s pre-
scription on file.  However, if a child is
sick or believed to be sick, the parent(s) are
called immediately. Under no circumstance is the
receptionist or any other school official allowed
to give over the counter medicine even if they
obtain verbal approval over the phone.  The parent
or other guardian must come in and give the medi-
cine him/herself.  This is because there is no
qualified person serving in the explicit capacity
of school nurse or school physician.

[RobertBruce]

On 2006-05-29 05:59:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Seems like the only rats that are scurrying are Dysfunction and Robert Bruce. HLA clicks along....."

If you say so, they continue to feel the effects of our nasty truth telling campaign and things are most assuredly not "clicking along" or would like to explain the unpaid bills and drastic cutbacks?

[RobertBruce]

On 2006-05-29 07:40:00, Anonymous wrote:

"In our public school the front desk lady is

allowed to dispense prescription medications with written approval from the parents and a Dr.s pre-

scription on file.  However, if a child is

sick or believed to be sick, the parent(s) are

called immediately. Under no circumstance is the

receptionist or any other school official allowed

to give over the counter medicine even if they

obtain verbal approval over the phone.  The parent

or other guardian must come in and give the medi-

cine him/herself.  This is because there is no

qualified person serving in the explicit capacity

of school nurse or school physician."

Again reasonable but not a policy HLA employs.

[RobertBruce]

You know Who rereading your comments I thought it was interesting that you mentioned me pulling the fire alarm.

After you get done sticking your head in the sand on the subject of improper medical care would you like to discuss the alarming fire safety infractions they employ?

[Anonymous]

This forum is a huge joke at HLA and your supposed truth-telling campaign has not affected them in the least. I checked with a current parent who has been monitoring the situation carefully and no one is quaking in their shoes over the power of fornits.
:silly:

[Deborah]

On 2006-05-28 17:28:00, TheWho wrote:

"I think they should be regulated by the state that they are in.  But I don?t blame the schools for this, the people need to push the state to enforce the regulations and over sight.  If we were not required to get a drivers license how many of us would have one and would that make us bad people or bad drivers?  Probably not.

I wrote:
As you well know Who, unlicensed programs are not required to follow state regulations. HLA is exempt- claimed to be a boarding school, "therapeutic" just a marketing tool.  

You responded:
I think it is important to distinguish between boarding school and ?Therapeutic? boarding school and market their target customers accordingly.
and
That?s exactly what I said.  TBS?s target and market to a very small fraction of kids.  They are non traditional.

It's a given that HLA has a target market and markets their customers accordingly- mute issue. That is not what they told the Office of Regulatory Services, which is the point. They claimed to be a Boarding School to avoid licensure and oversight.

You claim to support state regulation, but don't blame the 'schools' for lying about the services they provide in order to avoid state oversight?  

[ This Message was edited by: Deborah on 2006-05-29 10:30 ]

[Deborah]

Not sure how all this debate over what's legal or illegal is useful to anyone, given that HLA is exempt from state regulations. If they were doing anything that violated state law, who would you report it to?

In terms of public schools and state laws:

State Laws- which would not apply to HLA anyway
http://law.enotes.com/everyday-law-ency ... g-medicine
Georgia has "no applicable laws" on the administering of medications.
 
Update:
Georgia
Education Rule 160-4-8-.01 (2000) requires each school system to develop a Student Services Plan that provides guidelines for its various components including school health services. The state's School Health Nurse Resource Manual provides suggested models for each school system to implement the rule. Each model includes administration of medication as a school nurse function.
http://www.healthinschools.org/sh/mgmtpolicies.asp

Pertinent to this discussion:
http://law.enotes.com/everyday-law-ency ... g-medicine
Seventy-five percent of reporting nurses in the 2000 study delegated medication administration to unlicensed assistive personnel (UAPs), with secretaries (66 percent) being the most common. Errors in administering medications were reported by nearly 50 percent of the school nurses, the most common error being missed doses (79 percent). Errors were commonly reported to local school and/or state authorities.
Faced with the growing problem of exposure to liability in conjunction with the administration of medicine (and in many circumstances, the administration of controlled substances), schools have mobilized over the years and demanded both guidance and protection from liability by state legislatures. Not all states have addressed the issue at the state level, and persons needing information are best advised to start with their local school districts.


http://www2.gsu.edu/~wwwghp/publication ... rt2001.pdf
Last year the Georgia legislature allocated $30 million in House Bill 1187, the ?A+ Education Reform Act of 2000? (A+), to augment funding for school health personnel. The goal of the legislation was to provide for healthcare personnel in every school in the state. Prior to implementation of this Act, Georgia lagged behind the rest of the country as one of very few states that did not directly fund school nurses or require health personnel in schools.
Study results at this link.


[ This Message was edited by: Deborah on 2006-05-30 08:04 ]

[Deborah]

On 2006-05-29 06:38:00, SHH wrote:

"If we were comparing this situation to my child's elementary school, then it would seem that his school is the same. In our school system, they cannot afford a nurse for every school every day. They have traveling nurses. The nurse visits my child's school once a week. However, on the days that she is not there, someone has to give out meds. In this case, it IS the receptionist, IE, the front desk lady who greets people and answers the phone. She is not a nurse, however, this appears to be fine to the school board. So, if Georgia has the same regulations as North Carolina, maybe its possible that in the event of a temporary absence of a nurse, that someone "designated" can dole out meds. Just a thought. But I do think the ACTUAL regulation should be determined for Georgia before conclusions are made as to whether this is illegal or not. "

Some of you just really can't grok the point that HLA is exempt from state regulations. Wouldn't matter if they were violating state laws governing RCFs or public schools. In the eyes of ORS, they are a private boarding school, based on the information HLA and/or their attorney provided. Who ya gonna call- Fraud Busters?

BTW, N Carolina could improve as well. Used to be that very few kids took daily medication. With the expolosion of psych meds (No Child Left Behind) millions now take behavior drugs (controlled substances) daily. They should be locked up and monitored by someone with a little more training than secretarial school.
An interesting discussion on the topic here, specifically re: NC teachers' concern about liability.
http://allnurses.com/forums/f49/dispens ... 14478.html