Rats are scurrying....

[TheWho]

I wonder if you arent legally retarded.
You would be okay with spending almost 100,000 dollars to have your kid treated by unlicensed therapist, living in an unlicensed school, surrounded by dangerous people both student and staff, being occasionally denied basic needs such as toilet paper or an indoor toilet, and all the while having anti-psychotics or anti-depressants dispensed by the guy who cuts the lawn?

Please Id like to hear you say youd be okay with that scenario.

Wow, I don?t think anyone would !!  Would you want to buy a car with one wheel missing, cracked windshield and 90% rusted out for $60,000, of course not.  If you reread the post the question was ?What are the requirements?  Does the person need to be a Doctor of Psychiatry or the guy mowing the lawn?  I believe somewhere in between.?  Is the receptionist qualified?  Do we know the answer?

When I pick up prescriptions at the store a 20 year old with a name tag saying ?Debbie? gives them to me.  It doesn?t say she has a PHD or she is filling in for someone on a cigarette break.  I don?t know, maybe I should ask.  But the real question is are they breaking the law?  What are the requirements?  I typically ask these questions and have the answers in hand before I accuse someone of doing something wrong, that was my point,  I am not for or against HLA.
 :question:

[Deborah]

When I pick up prescriptions at the store a 20 year old with a name tag saying ?Debbie? gives them to me.  It doesn?t say she has a PHD or she is filling in for someone on a cigarette break.  I don?t know, maybe I should ask.  But the real question is are they breaking the law?  What are the requirements?  I typically ask these questions and have the answers in hand before I accuse someone of doing something wrong, that was my point,  I am not for or against HLA.

"

Who, do the research. The questions you pose have already been addressed. And the bottom line is that unlicensed programs do as they wish, until someone takes issue.
It's so typical of you to make the arguement that someone handing you an rx in a bag is equivalent to an unlicensed staff administering potent psychiatric drugs.
Are you here for any other reason than to bog down the thread with innane questions and musings? If it's education you seek, read what's been posted, and talk less.

[TheWho]

I have done searches in the HLA threads and I don?t see where it was addressed, where the requirements are defined.  I ran the following queries:

Requirements
Drugs
Nurse
Dispense

It's so typical of you to make the arguement that someone handing you an rx in a bag is equivalent to an unlicensed staff administering potent psychiatric drugs.

Why is it different?  The store doesn?t differentiate between who gives the potent and non potent drugs, it?s the same girl.

If we are asking someone to meet a certain standard we need to cite the requirements i.e.

?State law requires that all medications be dispensed by a licensed medical person who has been trained for 233 hours by the state of North Carolina.  If a person is not able to do his/her duties a temporary person can be assigned if overseen by a licensed doctor, this temporary position can not exceed 30 days and the person should have a minimum of a GED in the State of NC ?..etc.?

If we have this in our hands we can ask for the receptionist?s credentials and if they don?t meet minimum standards then the state must be notified.  These are the correct steps.  To hear that someone was fired and assume they are out of control without evidence is wrong, unfounded and lowers ones credibility.

Deborah, these type of questions should not be viewed as bogging down or musings but the first steps of getting to the truth,  Fornits should continue to build credibility not the other way around.
 :question:

[RobertBruce]

Yet still you ignore the questions put to you while demanding yours be answered?

The girl who hands you your prozac at your drug store has been trained. The guy who cuts the lawn has not. Further by the standards you listed a doctor would need to supervise any such temporary position. No such doctor is on staff at HLA. Further you are ignoring the largest issue on the matter to date: If you burned yourself or broke your arm would you go see Debbie at the drug store or a doctor?

Right now HLA has a receptionist playing school nurse handing out meds she knows nothing about and treating kids injuries and illnesses while untrained and unqualified.

Im still looking for you to tell me if you are okay with this scenario.

Also still wondering why if you are neither for or against HLA and have no real experience or knowledge of it why you are here?

[RobertBruce]

Deborah, these type of questions should not be viewed as bogging down or musings but the first steps of getting to the truth,  Fornits should continue to build credibility not the other way around.

"

Oh and just so youre clear, you have no such truth to offer us. We already have the truth on HLA, its been pegged hence why HLA is feeling the effects of our work. If you on the other hand care to be educated please, let us know.

[TheWho]

Yet still you ignore the questions put to you while demanding yours be answered?

The girl who hands you your prozac at your drug store has been trained.

Okay , to what level?  Degreed?

The guy who cuts the lawn has not.

Okay, We will accept this as an assumption.

Further by the standards you listed a doctor would need to supervise any such temporary position. No such doctor is on staff at HLA.

No, I was citing an example of a requirement, we haven?t defined any requirements yet!

Further you are ignoring the largest issue on the matter to date: If you burned yourself or broke your arm would you go see Debbie at the drug store or a doctor?

The issue is meds, the girl at the pharmacy would not help you either.

Right now HLA has a receptionist playing school nurse handing out meds she knows nothing about and treating kids injuries and illnesses while untrained and unqualified.

How do we know she is not qualified to hand out the meds?

Im still looking for you to tell me if you are okay with this scenario.

If she is qualified and meets the requirements then I am satisfied, yes.

Also still wondering why if you are neither for or against HLA and have no real experience or knowledge of it why you are here?

The same reason everyone else is.
 :question:

[TheWho]

On 2006-05-28 13:34:00, RobertBruce wrote:

"

Deborah, these type of questions should not be viewed as bogging down or musings but the first steps of getting to the truth,  Fornits should continue to build credibility not the other way around.


"

Oh and just so youre clear, you have no such truth to offer us. We already have the truth on HLA, its been pegged hence why HLA is feeling the effects of our work. If you on the other hand care to be educated please, let us know. "

I never offered truth.  I suggested we all continue to strive towards it and yes I do care to be educated always, hopefully you havent stopped learning.

[Deborah]

Debbie the drug store clerk is not in charge of "administering" drugs to 150+ people. She is not putting the correct doses of medication into cups and passing them out. She sticks the bottle into a bag and rings up the sale.

As you well know Who, unlicensed programs are not required to follow state regulations. HLA is exempt- claimed to be a boarding school, "therapeutic" just a marketing tool.

Who administered drugs as ASR? What type of employee would you have been comfortable with managing and administering drugs? I think they have about the same population.

[SHH]

I dont want to comment about who is administering drugs at HLA or what is the regulation, because I dont know those things, however I did want to comment on something Deborah said. She said the receptionist, (or whoever), is doling out medicines for 150 students. That may be the number of students enrolled at HLA, but that in no way would represent the actual number of students taking prescription medicines of any type at the school. That would mean every student takes prescription drugs, and I doubt seriously the number is more than maybe 30 or 35 students that take medicines on a daily basis. Maybe someone who knows can give out the percentage of students who take medicines on a daily basis? And whether or not those drugs are for allergies, non-psychotic ailments, or for psychological conditions. But 150 would be a serious exxageration, in my opinion.

[Deborah]

The demographics provided in the parent manual stated 50%, on psych drugs...75 or so. In addition, others take rx for sinus, diabetes, antibiotic, etc. My son took sinus meds frequently due to the excessive amount of cheese he consumed on restriction and became dependent on flonase.

Neither of us know the exact number of kids taking meds on any given day. What we do know is that someone has to know all those kids so they can positively ID them, what meds they are authorized to take, when they take them and what the dosage is. It's not a task to take lightly, whether 75 or 150 daily. That's a lot of kids and meds to be responsible for.

PS... Deborah said nothing of the sort. I do not know who is administering drugs.

[ This Message was edited by: Deborah on 2006-05-28 16:13 ]

[TheWho]

Debbie the drug store clerk is not in charge of "administering" drugs to 150+ people. She is not putting the correct doses of medication into cups and passing them out. She sticks the bottle into a bag and rings up the sale.

As you well know Who, unlicensed programs are not required to follow state regulations. HLA is exempt- claimed to be a boarding school, "therapeutic" just a marketing tool.

I think it is important to distinguish between boarding school and ?Therapeutic? boarding school and market their target customers accordingly.  TBS?s target a very small fraction of kids who will benefit from what they offer.  Yes, I do understand that they benefit from special exemptions.  

Who administered drugs as ASR? What type of employee would you have been comfortable with managing and administering drugs? I think they have about the same population.

I am not sure how it was handled at ASR,  but  I would expect at least a trained medical person (nurse) to stage the meds once a day, maybe bag them, mark them and then allow a  staff member, who is assigned, to distribute them when needed .  These would be my minimum requirements.  If there were state or federal guide lines, I would want them to follow those as well.

So I guess we need to ascertain what the receptionist is responsible for.  Does she have total access to all the meds and just hand them out to whom ever wants some pain killers, does she have any training?  Does she have a background in dispensing drugs or is she 18 years old and this is her first job and she has only been answering phones for a week?   Are there requirements or guide lines the school should be following?

[Anonymous]

On 2006-05-28 16:44:00, TheWho wrote:

"Are there requirements or guide lines the school should be following?"

For a TBS? Naaaaaaaah. What would ever give you that idea?

[Deborah]

Who,
Now I know you know that HLA doesn't take traditional boarding school kids- that isn't and never has been their target market. No one is going to board their kid in a TBS for a 20-22 month "program". I have never seen one advertisement that remotely suggests HLA being a traditional boarding school. If you have, please post it. Further, kids who go to HLA do not stay the duration of their high school years. Their parents are highly encouraged to place them in pre-selected "traditional boarding schools" upon completion of HLAs "program". The guarentee is dependent on it.

Based on this comment: "Are there requirements or guide lines the school should be following?"
I'm not sure you do understand that they benefit from special exemptions.  

BTW, it's not special exemptions (plural), they are totally exempt from state regulations. No one monitors their program. Same with ASR.

As a parent, why are you comfortable with that?

[RobertBruce]

Okay , to what level? Degreed?

I just placed a quick call to my pharmacy. Excluding the head pharmacist, to be just an asst. requires at least some college level training in pharmacy along with a multi week training course and a final exam before a person can even touch meds.

Okay, We will accept this as an assumption.

Its probably a safe one to assume that the guy cutting the lawn isnt a trained pharmacist or school nurse.

No, I was citing an example of a requirement, we haven?t defined any requirements yet!

Oh Im sorry was the requirement you listed off before just pulled from your ass?

The issue is meds, the girl at the pharmacy would not help you either.

The issue is meds for you because you cant retort against my argument. This receptionist isnt just passing out meds, shes playing school nurse. Shes treating injuries and illnesses completly unqualified. Not only does this put the inmates health at risk, it is illegal.

How do we know she is not qualified to hand out the meds?

Based on the fact that shes a receptionist.

If she is qualified and meets the requirements then I am satisfied, yes.

And if she isnt?

The same reason everyone else is.

You think so? You have no knowledge of HLA nor any experience with it. The people who come onto this site to comment on it do so for different reasons. The people who are anti-HLA are usually here because they suffered at the hands of it or know someone who suffered and want the truth to be known concerning it. The people who are pro-HLA are usually either sadist who enjoy the pain they can inflict on children at the school, to stupid to see the truth, or are dependent on HLA for their livelihood and simply dont care. There are also of course those who did benefit from such an enviroment. You dont fall into any of those categories so again the question stands;

Why are you here?

[RobertBruce]

I never offered truth. I suggested we all continue to strive towards it and yes I do care to be educated always, hopefully you havent stopped learning.

While not offering opposing ideas concerning HLA you have discounted and dismissed others statements.

This serves the same purpose. Yet you do this while not having any first hand knowledge of HLA whatsoever.

Why?