« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2   Go Down

Author Topic: What is it precisely that bothers you.  (Read 2716 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline MightyAardvark

  • Posts: 368
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
What is it precisely that bothers you.
« on: April 23, 2006, 08:11:00 AM »
There appears to be no generalised consensus here about what is wrong with the Troubled Teen industry. What is it that we all object to, now I have a fairly comprehensive list of things that would need to be changed in order to satisfy me which includes (but is not limited to)

Ending the use of the Skinner model
Ending the use of LGAT
Ending the use of peer reviewed advancement
Ending the use of peer defined consequences
Ending the use of coercive isolation
Ending the practice of indefinite involuntary stays
Ending the practice of communications blackouts
Ending the use of physical punishments
Ending the practice of comission based referrals
Enforce the use of a diagnosis based admissions (by which i mean you don't get placed in an RTC without a diagnosis from a competant independant psychiatrist)
Enforce the use of appropriately qualified and background checked staff
Ending the use of punitive restraint
Are there any others that people would like ot add to the list here?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Logged
see the children with their boredom and their vacant stares. God help us all if we\'re to blame for their unanswered prayers,

Billy Joel.

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
What is it precisely that bothers you.
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2006, 08:24:00 AM »
You're focusing on symptoms, Aardvark. The only people who open places like that are sadists with- how better to put this?- evil thoughts about teenagers. That's the problem. Put an end to their careers and you end everything else.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Logged

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
What is it precisely that bothers you.
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2006, 08:32:00 AM »
Both of you are missing the point entirely.

Read up on the Greek legend of the Hydra.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Logged

Offline MightyAardvark

  • Posts: 368
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
What is it precisely that bothers you.
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2006, 08:45:00 AM »
I believe both of those poits are beign addressed at length elsewhere on these boards. Let's try to stay on topic if we can.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Logged
see the children with their boredom and their vacant stares. God help us all if we\'re to blame for their unanswered prayers,

Billy Joel.

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
What is it precisely that bothers you.
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2006, 09:40:00 AM »
There is no point to your topic. What your assuming is that a few fundamental changes will fix the problems with theraputic schools in America. I am pointing out to you that even with changes the same old problems will pop up again and again in the form of new guises.

Surely a person who hails from the UK can appreciate the difficulties in dealing with a perasive problem like TBS schools and their abuses in comparison with your own government's inability to stamp out the IRA.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Logged

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
What is it precisely that bothers you.
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2006, 11:52:00 AM »
I see where both of you are going with this.  In my opinion, if you had a program following Mighty Aardvark's model (and I'm assuming the facilities are still locked and guarded as that wasn't on the list), the students would completely revolt, riot and/or leave.  

These programs could not exist as we know them now if their leaders did not rule with fear.  Furthermore, these programs would be legal in all states, so there would be no need to hide them in small towns and remote third-world villages.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Logged

Offline MightyAardvark

  • Posts: 368
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
What is it precisely that bothers you.
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2006, 11:59:00 AM »
Do none of you make a distinction between a behaviour modification facility, which is inherently cruel and amoral and a secure facility for the treatment of psychologically ill young people, which while it may be worrisome, could actually be good for the child if it was run properly?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Logged
see the children with their boredom and their vacant stares. God help us all if we\'re to blame for their unanswered prayers,

Billy Joel.

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
What is it precisely that bothers you.
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2006, 12:01:00 PM »
Aardvark has not suggested any new paradigm nor has he layed out some new sort of model. He merely asks the question what would you like to see done away with inside the framework of the old model of fear based cohercion treatment.
 
You simply will not be able to kill the WWASP model no matter how hard you try. It is to much of a money maker for it to go away. Far to much political interest, finacial investment, and ego has been expended for the WWASP type schools to go quietly away.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Logged

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
What is it precisely that bothers you.
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2006, 12:03:00 PM »
Quote
On 2006-04-23 08:59:00, MightyAardvark wrote:

"Do none of you make a distinction between a behaviour modification facility, which is inherently cruel and amoral and a secure facility for the treatment of psychologically ill young people, which while it may be worrisome, could actually be good for the child if it was run properly?

"


Not in the slightest as the same problems are inherent to both styles. Reference the Stanford Study for institutional abuse to clarify my point. All of these so called properly run facilities all start with the best of intentions, and given time slide right down the crapper.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Logged

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
What is it precisely that bothers you.
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2006, 12:22:00 PM »
There already are facilities for the mentally ill, Aardvark. They're called "mental hospitals".
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Logged

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
What is it precisely that bothers you.
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2006, 12:52:00 PM »
Bottom line -- these programs don't exist to help teens, they exist to help their parents control their kids.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Logged

Offline CCM girl 1989

  • Posts: 1308
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
What is it precisely that bothers you.
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2006, 01:19:00 PM »
Quote
On 2006-04-23 05:11:00, MightyAardvark wrote:

"There appears to be no generalised consensus here about what is wrong with the Troubled Teen industry. What is it that we all object to, now I have a fairly comprehensive list of things that would need to be changed in order to satisfy me which includes (but is not limited to)



Ending the use of the Skinner model

Ending the use of LGAT

Ending the use of peer reviewed advancement

Ending the use of peer defined consequences

Ending the use of coercive isolation

Ending the practice of indefinite involuntary stays

Ending the practice of communications blackouts

Ending the use of physical punishments

Ending the practice of comission based referrals

Enforce the use of a diagnosis based admissions (by which i mean you don't get placed in an RTC without a diagnosis from a competant independant psychiatrist)

Enforce the use of appropriately qualified and background checked staff

Ending the use of punitive restraint

Are there any others that people would like ot add to the list here?





"


MA-

I agree with you. They need to do most of these things you have listed. Will they? I don't know? Only if they are forced to. I don't know how they would make these changes with out closing for a couple months? WWASPS ways are so old school!!! They need to be updated.

But, will they be able to let the money go? I don't know? Most people who just care about their business generating money, very rarely care about how it's done. It's always about the bottom line.

As far as coming up with a new structure for their schools? Well, I could come up with a much better program. But, I haven't gotten that call??? What I mean, is that it would take many trips to facilities, and sitting down with the higher ups, as well as the employees, to make sure it is done right.

I can't make parents keep their kids at home, and do it themselves! In this country unfortunately how it works is.....if you have the pesos you have the saysos. People outsource things in their lives on a daily basis. But, when it comes to outsourcing you parental responsibilities.....it needs to be to people who care about your childs emotional health, and not the almighty dollar.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Logged
f you were never in a program, or a parent of a child in a program, then you have no business posting here.

Offline MightyAardvark

  • Posts: 368
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
What is it precisely that bothers you.
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2006, 01:51:00 PM »
CCM...
I agree absolutely with your final point.
I should like to hear to expand upon that slightly if you have time.

I think it's very clear that the Teenhelp industry has no interest in cleaning up it's act ay time soon and why should they. They're making more money now than they have ever before.

At the same time I remain convinced of the need for limited, small scale, competantly and compassionately run facilities to address the rare cases that would benefit from treatment in a residential setting. However I believe the operation of these facilities needs to be overseen strictly and aggressively by an entirely independant body of monitors.

I think we need to make a distinction between "Behaviour modification centres" which in my opinion are intrinsically cruel and unethical and "residential treatment facilities"
The former in my opinion ought to be banned. Full stop. Anyone using the Skinner model on human beings, especially juveniles wants to be in the Dock at the Hague facing charges of crime against humanity. It's cruel, it's degrading and quite simply it does not work.
At the other end of the scale we have facilities (I could give examples) using the Dialectic model to help apprpriately diagnosed children who have been removed from their homes for various compelling reasons. I see no good reason why we should deny much needed treatment to genuinely distressed children and teenagers on the grounds that unscrupulous men like Lichfield exist.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Logged
see the children with their boredom and their vacant stares. God help us all if we\'re to blame for their unanswered prayers,

Billy Joel.

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
What is it precisely that bothers you.
« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2006, 03:27:00 PM »
These rules would be a good start.


http://www.teenliberty.org/ACAPN.htm
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Logged

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
What is it precisely that bothers you.
« Reply #14 on: April 23, 2006, 05:11:00 PM »
-ending the overinsitutionalization of youth, reserving institutionalization exclusively for when youth are a danger to themselves and others

Since that is unlikely and RTC's will continue to exist (for now)- until community care is widely available we advocate
-regulation
-ending the use of non-evidence based practices
-affording youth the right to contest placement and acess to advocactes
-protection of basic human rights of youth

From:

http://www.cafety.org
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Logged
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
« previous next »