Second Nature Wilderness Program

[Anonymous]

Dang, Ginger, your substitution mutilated that sentence.

*In my opinion*, the troll _n_e_e_d_s_ to up his dose.

Julie

[Antigen]

DJ, so what's the answer? What did they tell you in school about why you must use the least restrictive means?

 

There is nothing on earth intended for innocent people so horrible as a school.  To begin with, it is a prison.  But it is in some respects more cruel than a prison.  In a prison, for instance, you are not forced to read books written by the wardens...School was to me a sentence of penal servitude.
--George Bernard Shaw

[Anonymous]

Julie, could you be any more wordy and nonsensical?

[Troll Control]

On 2006-03-23 09:13:00, Eudora wrote:

"DJ, so what's the answer? What did they tell you in school about why you must use the least restrictive means?



 

There is nothing on earth intended for innocent people so horrible as a school.  To begin with, it is a prison.  But it is in some respects more cruel than a prison.  In a prison, for instance, you are not forced to read books written by the wardens...School was to me a sentence of penal servitude.
--George Bernard Shaw

"

It goes back to the basic underlying theme that all treatment is voluntary (except in extreme cases, as I said before - less than 1% of all cases).  In order to have voluntary treatment, one must be in the least restrictive environment and free from coercion.  It's really that simple.

It is also precisely why "programs" don't work.  By definition, there is coercion and a restricted environment.  Let me reiterate:  THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS FORCED TREATMENT.  It does not, and cannot work.

This premise also underpins the moral/professional compass of program workers.  Programs espouse logic that contradicts the basic tenets of therapy, therefore any practitioner that works in these systems, by definition once more, has acted contrary to their professional oath.  Again, it's that simple.

[Antigen]

Karen, no, it goes back waaaayyy before that. Here's the first Carey post I know of.

http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... art=0#8549

Carey
Frequent poster
Joined: 2003-01-18

There may be some anon before that, but I can't tell. I don't remember any mention of the hard drive sale till well into late `03.

We must create an atmosphere where the crooked cop fears the honest cop, and not the other way around.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00006JU7T/circlofmiamithem' target='_new'>Frank Serpico

[Antigen]

Here's one earlier reference from way before the battle ensued:

http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... rt=0#20510

He, who has nothing, and who himself belongs to another, must be defended by him, whose property he is, and needs no arms. But he, who thinks he is his own master, and has what he can call his own, ought to have arms to defend himself, and what he possesses; else he lives precariously, and at discretion.
http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/a1_8_12s4.html' target='_new'> James Burgh 1774

[Anonymous]

::bump::

[Lain the Odd]

"Even the kids that don't make it at TBS liked SNWP"



That is absolutely correct.  Many kids keep in touch with their therapists from 2N and have really good feelings about it.  It is a class operation.

Okay, i'm jumping in here late, but... No. It's not. It's an abusive shithole like any other, and it played at least as much part as the rest in severely screwing me up. k? k.

Second Nature Wilderness Program is NOT a boot camp for troubled teens. In fact, Second Nature Wilderness Program strongly disputes the enduring efficacy of any boot camp program for troubled youth. Boot camps, by design, are behavior modification paradigms, using coercion and hardship to negatively reinforce appropriate behavior. Second Nature is not a teen boot camp and has no affiliation with any such programs. Second Nature is a wilderness therapy program that provides psychoeducation, sophisticated and individualized therapy, and wilderness realism to highlight choices and consequences for your troubled teen, which aids in guiding students toward long term ambitions.

http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Bullshit

[TheWho]

"Even the kids that don't make it at TBS liked SNWP"



That is absolutely correct.  Many kids keep in touch with their therapists from 2N and have really good feelings about it.  It is a class operation.

Okay, i'm jumping in here late, but... No. It's not. It's an abusive shithole like any other, and it played at least as much part as the rest in severely screwing me up. k? k.

Second Nature Wilderness Program is NOT a boot camp for troubled teens. In fact, Second Nature Wilderness Program strongly disputes the enduring efficacy of any boot camp program for troubled youth. Boot camps, by design, are behavior modification paradigms, using coercion and hardship to negatively reinforce appropriate behavior. Second Nature is not a teen boot camp and has no affiliation with any such programs. Second Nature is a wilderness therapy program that provides psychoeducation, sophisticated and individualized therapy, and wilderness realism to highlight choices and consequences for your troubled teen, which aids in guiding students toward long term ambitions.

http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Bullshit

Seems:  One persons shit hole is another person’s oasis.



...

[Lain the Odd]

I'll yield that. Everything, you could argue, is perception - maybe in some bizarre twist of fate, a starving Ethiopian kid ended up in Second Nature and was willing to take bad food and twisted manipulations over none and rape?

Hey... it's a thought >.>

[Nihilanthic]

My daughter went to SNWP Georgia.  She was there for 12 weeks.  I went through the transition program at the end of her stay.  Her therapist was really good.  We had weekly hour phone conferences with the therapist.  My daughter still keeps in contact with the staff and her therapist from time to time.  My daughter has nothing but good things to say about the program and thinks it did her a world of good.  She felt strong, introspective and accomplished at the end.  We were all pleased with it.

Fucking press release bullshit.

Nobody talks like that. Nobody stays in touch with people from a program.

Nobody says "I'm strong introspective and accomplished".

What the FUCK?  :rofl:

[TheWho]

My daughter went to SNWP Georgia.  She was there for 12 weeks.  I went through the transition program at the end of her stay.  Her therapist was really good.  We had weekly hour phone conferences with the therapist.  My daughter still keeps in contact with the staff and her therapist from time to time.  My daughter has nothing but good things to say about the program and thinks it did her a world of good.  She felt strong, introspective and accomplished at the end.  We were all pleased with it.

Fucking press release bullshit.

Nobody talks like that. Nobody stays in touch with people from a program.

Nobody says "I'm strong introspective and accomplished".

What the FUCK?  :rofl:

Niles, it is because you are too far removed from the families and kids that attend and have never attended yourself and therefore cannot relate.  That is almost exactly what my daughter experienced and the rest of the kids in her group seemed to be doing well when they left also.
The staff at SUWS were really good people and my daughter talks fondly of them to this day and wonders how they are doing and even mentions she would like to contact them someday to let them know how well she is doing and to see how they are.

The lack of understanding on your part shows first that you are not a parent and secondly that you have never had any experience with the industry.  The reaction and experience that you just read is the norm, whether you want to believe it or not.  Most of the BS you read on fornits are kids who had a hard time or who never should have attended in the first place.  Anyone can throw a story up of how they were abused or hurt by the experience but these are isolated cases at best and don’t reflect the good that wilderness programs do for families.




...

[Anonymous]

Who is correct on this.  My kid did keep in touch with the wilderness therapist and staff and valued the experience.  Second Nature and SUWS are successful, valued programs and most (not all, but most) kids come out with positive feelings about the program and the staff.

[Covergaard]

They claim that the place is not for troubled teens.

But during my work on Fornits Wiki with places that is for troubled teens, I have interviewed many, who have started their journey at 2nd Nature.

So is it fair to say that they create a product that it suitable for these places? That the kids are not trouble when they enter, but made troubled so they fit the facilities they will be shipped to?

My friend got the Wiki entry completed and it looks like this.

Another question are whether they measure their quality. Do they have some kind of statistic about the number who needs "after-care". At a place like Anasazi only 10 % needs aftercare. At SUWS the number is 60%.

Source:
Theoretical Basis, process and reported Outcomes of Wilderness, Therapy as an Intervention and Treatment for problem behavior in Adolescents, by Keith C. Russell, Idaho University, page 23

[Che Gookin]

Didn't I already completely trash Second Nature due to their use of Synonan methodology and false advertising?

I mean what the hell? Are we going over this again? The kids see their damn therapists at most 1 time a week.

You can get the same for cheaper by putting your wayward teen in a tent in your backyard and driving him to the head tweaker yourself.