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Author Topic: Behavior Modification/Torture  (Read 5357 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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Behavior Modification/Torture
« on: March 18, 2006, 04:49:00 PM »
What, exactly, is the difference?
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Offline Deborah

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Behavior Modification/Torture
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2006, 07:07:00 PM »
Let's see, if you want to change someone's behavior or thinking you have 3 options:

Rewards- sometimes as harmful and ineffective as punishments, depends on the circumstances.

Punishment- which can, and certainly does, include isolation and physical torture.

Rewards and Punishments are both manipulative and coercive. Kids usually catch on and resent you.

Modeling and Honest Communication- slower, but the most respectful and humane approach.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2006, 07:29:00 PM »
I'll buy that "Modeling and Honest Communication" is slower, and probably respectful on at least one level,but I'm not so convinced about humane.  What if the behavior you sought to change were self-harming --cutting, bashing head against wall, or other clearly physically harmful?  Would you model sitting calmly, perhaps saying that calm is nicer?  Or would you restrain the extreme behavior, for however short or long a time?  Wouldn't restraining someone bashing their head against a wall be more humane than letting them continue?

I don't argue that there aren't abuses in programs that purport to modify behavior, and even regard "behavior mod" as quite different from therapeutic.  

What about a guided wilderness experience, where a person is given all they truly need, and are taught how to do what they have to, but don't get warm food if they don't choose to start a fire and heat/cook the food?  That is modeling and honest communication (as the group leaders would be in the same position regarding food), and I don't think it abusive.  Some do.  Do you?

And can you draw an inflexible line?
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Offline Anonymous

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Behavior Modification/Torture
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2006, 08:34:00 PM »
Quote
On 2006-03-18 16:29:00, Anonymous wrote:

...blah, blah.... for however short or long a time?  Wouldn't restraining someone bashing their head against a wall be more humane than letting them continue?

Nice strawman! Got any more?

Quote
What about a guided wilderness experience, where a person is kept from family and friends?


FIXED.

I ought to get a moniker if I'm going to keep the flamewar a'cookin.
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Offline TheWho

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Behavior Modification/Torture
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2006, 08:42:00 PM »
Quote
On 2006-03-18 16:29:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I'll buy that "Modeling and Honest Communication" is slower, and probably respectful on at least one level,but I'm not so convinced about humane.  What if the behavior you sought to change were self-harming --cutting, bashing head against wall, or other clearly physically harmful?  Would you model sitting calmly, perhaps saying that calm is nicer?  Or would you restrain the extreme behavior, for however short or long a time?  Wouldn't restraining someone bashing their head against a wall be more humane than letting them continue?



I don't argue that there aren't abuses in programs that purport to modify behavior, and even regard "behavior mod" as quite different from therapeutic.  



What about a guided wilderness experience, where a person is given all they truly need, and are taught how to do what they have to, but don't get warm food if they don't choose to start a fire and heat/cook the food?  That is modeling and honest communication (as the group leaders would be in the same position regarding food), and I don't think it abusive.  Some do.  Do you?



And can you draw an inflexible line?"
Seems like a good point.  Hopeing for an honest response, whats with the strawmen statement?
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2006, 08:45:00 PM »
Quote
On 2006-03-18 17:42:00, Anonymous wrote:

Seems like a good point.  Hopeing for an honest response, whats with the strawmen statement?"


Responding to your own posts = Five yard penalty. Time to get your ass kicked five yards.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2006, 08:49:00 PM »
Do you know of any residential treatment centers using this approach? What are their names? Let say you are running an RTC and 180 pound Jeff slugs 130 pound Johnny. How do you handle this keeping in mind the next time Jeff does this Johnny could be in the hospital?
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2006, 08:54:00 PM »
Quote
On 2006-03-18 17:49:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Do you know of any residential treatment centers using this approach? What are their names? Let say you are running an RTC and 180 pound Jeff slugs 130 pound Johnny. How do you handle this keeping in mind the next time Jeff does this Johnny could be in the hospital?"


Hmm... how about... not operating a place like that to begin with? Ever think of that, bitch?

"Ooh! I know! I know! Let's run a place where the whole point is to piss kids off! Then when they start hitting each other (instead of the staff, who they should be murdering), we can restrain them and say it was for their own good!"

Fucking retard. Get the fuck off our Internet.

Oh yeah, and bullshit carries a ten yard penalty. **BAM!!!**

Luke starts charging himself up. Electrons flow from the left side of his back to the right, waiting to be released into some unsuspecting moron programmie's body. Next time, I'm gonna fry your ass.
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Offline TheWho

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« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2006, 08:55:00 PM »
Quote
On 2006-03-18 16:29:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I'll buy that "Modeling and Honest Communication" is slower, and probably respectful on at least one level,but I'm not so convinced about humane.  What if the behavior you sought to change were self-harming --cutting, bashing head against wall, or other clearly physically harmful?  Would you model sitting calmly, perhaps saying that calm is nicer?  Or would you restrain the extreme behavior, for however short or long a time?  Wouldn't restraining someone bashing their head against a wall be more humane than letting them continue?



I don't argue that there aren't abuses in programs that purport to modify behavior, and even regard "behavior mod" as quite different from therapeutic.  



What about a guided wilderness experience, where a person is given all they truly need, and are taught how to do what they have to, but don't get warm food if they don't choose to start a fire and heat/cook the food?  That is modeling and honest communication (as the group leaders would be in the same position regarding food), and I don't think it abusive.  Some do.  Do you?



And can you draw an inflexible line?"
No one has answered your question, yet.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2006, 08:59:00 PM »
FIVE YARD PENALTY!! *BAM!*

The question's invalid, numbnuts. If one of my friends was bashing his head against the wall, I'd grab his head and ask him what the hell was going on. If it was one of you tards, I'd help you out with the head bashing. (SMASH!)

If people believed in honest communication, "wilderness camps" wouldn't exist.
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Offline TheWho

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« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2006, 09:01:00 PM »
Quote
On 2006-03-18 17:59:00, Luke Stephens wrote:

"FIVE YARD PENALTY!! *BAM!*



The question's invalid, numbnuts. If one of my friends was bashing his head against the wall, I'd grab his head and ask him what the hell was going on. If it was one of you tards, I'd help you out with the head bashing. (SMASH!)



If people believed in honest communication, "wilderness camps" wouldn't exist."
Oh, my, still no answer, though.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2006, 09:04:00 PM »
Which question, idiot?

The "guided wilderness experience" is fucking bullshit, a purely artificial situation made to look natural.

The inflexible line is where you start sending kids away to be reprogrammed or "modified". Unless you've got a bloody belt, everything before that is pretty much child's play.

I bet you jack off every day to teenagers getting abused like that, don't you?
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Offline TheWho

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« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2006, 09:09:00 PM »
Quote
On 2006-03-18 18:04:00, Luke Stephens wrote:

"Which question, idiot?



The "guided wilderness experience" is fucking bullshit, a purely artificial situation made to look natural.



The inflexible line is where you start sending kids away to be reprogrammed or "modified". Unless you've got a bloody belt, everything before that is pretty much child's play.



I bet you jack off every day to teenagers getting abused like that, don't you?"
This one:

 I'll buy that "Modeling and Honest Communication" is slower, and probably respectful on at least one level,but I'm not so convinced about humane. What if the behavior you sought to change were self-harming --cutting, bashing head against wall, or other clearly physically harmful? Would you model sitting calmly, perhaps saying that calm is nicer? Or would you restrain the extreme behavior, for however short or long a time? Wouldn't restraining someone bashing their head against a wall be more humane than letting them continue?

I don't argue that there aren't abuses in programs that purport to modify behavior, and even regard "behavior mod" as quite different from therapeutic.

What about a guided wilderness experience, where a person is given all they truly need, and are taught how to do what they have to, but don't get warm food if they don't choose to start a fire and heat/cook the food? That is modeling and honest communication (as the group leaders would be in the same position regarding food), and I don't think it abusive. Some do. Do you?

And can you draw an inflexible line?
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2006, 09:13:00 PM »
Heh.

Charging... charging...

I answered your question, cockblock. It is abusive, and there's no "consider" about it. There's a fat gray area, but the inflexible line comes when you start handing your own kids over to some shitbird to be "reformed" or "behaviorally modified".

Charging... charging...

Oh... and you didn't answer my question.

"I bet you jack off every day to teenagers getting abused like that, don't you?"

And the penalty is death!

BZEERRRRT!!! One full ampere of juice runs through the programmie's head for half a second. It dies instantly. Unfortunately, another one shows up immediately to replace it- they're a dime a dozen, really...
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Offline TheWho

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« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2006, 09:16:00 PM »
Quote
On 2006-03-18 18:13:00, Luke Stephens wrote:

"Heh.



Charging... charging...



I answered your question, cockblock. It is abusive, and there's no "consider" about it. There's a fat gray area, but the inflexible line comes when you start handing your own kids over to some shitbird to be "reformed" or "behaviorally modified".



Charging... charging...



Oh... and you didn't answer my question.



"I bet you jack off every day to teenagers getting abused like that, don't you?"



And the penalty is death!



BZEERRRRT!!! One full ampere of juice runs through the programmie's head for half a second. It dies instantly. Unfortunately, another one shows up immediately to replace it- they're a dime a dozen, really..."

Just what I thought, no answer.

Next.....
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