Im sorry

[Anonymous]

You guys need to get over yourselves, how many of you were students that actually graduated, that are complaining about abuse.  If I had not finished I probaly would have the same lack of belief in myself that I needed to blame on someone else.  It was hard and not everyone had the willpower to withstain the bullshit that when on or the bullshit that goes on in life for that matter.  For those who talk bad about the dead you will get yours in due time dont worry.

[Anonymous]

Which program are you talking about?

It's not a lack of belief in one's self but rather a complete and utter disgust for the sadistic fucks who continue to perpetrate abuse on unsuspecting, vulnerable kids.



Yes, I graduated.

judgemental asshole. :roll:

[Anonymous]

You are way too full of yourself. If you had a good experience and graduation was what "saved your life", as they'd have everyone believe, then great. By the way, what program did you graduate from?

There are a lot of kids who have attended these programs who have been emotionally, physically, psychologically abused - read the pages of this forum, check out other sites like http://www.isaccorp.org, http://www.caica.org, (you can find links to other sites from there) - read and learn about what these kids have experienced.

Perhaps their experiences were different than yours, or perhaps they simply were not brainwashed by their experience or they found their way back to reality. Who knows.  It's been talked about enough, all the abuse, the mind games, the brain washing. I can't imagine this many people would find the need to lie about their experiences. I just don't think so.

And if that were the case, why would professionals now get on board to try to not only expose this industry but to try to get federal legislation passed to try to protect these kids?

Wake up to the reality that kids are being neglected, brainwashed, abused, tortured, even killed. Yes, killed. They are being restrained, their breath sucked right out of them. Lucky you, you're still here to talk about your experience. What abou them? They have no voice. None at all. I'm not trying to be dramatic, it's the cold hard truth. Don't think it's true? Check out those websites, there's plenty documented that will show you it is.

[Anonymous]

On 2006-03-08 10:42:00, Anonymous wrote:

"You guys need to get over yourselves, how many of you were students that actually graduated, that are complaining about abuse.  If I had not finished I probaly would have the same lack of belief in myself that I needed to blame on someone else.  It was hard and not everyone had the willpower to withstain the bullshit that when on or the bullshit that goes on in life for that matter.  For those who talk bad about the dead you will get yours in due time dont worry.



"

WTF are you talking about? Are you talking about the dozens or so kids murdered by programs over the last several years?

[Anonymous]

You say there are only dozens who have died? Only? That's a lot of kids. If you were the parent of one child who died, it would be one child too many. I cannot imagine the loss these parents feel when their children die in programs they thought would help them.

We are all here to talk about this, what about the children who have died? They no longer have a voice.

I wonder what they would say if they could only speak to us, even for a moment. From their perspectives, what would they feel needs to change?

Think about the last moments of their lives, the ones who are brutally restrained by men 2 to 3 times their size, usually by more than one person. How it would feel to be lying on the ground, gasping and begging for air, only to have your pleas ignored.

Until finally, there is no more fighting and there is no more voice. If you think I am being dramatic, please read the stories below and decide for yourself. These deaths cannot be ignored, something needs to be done.

The headlines read today "38 die in assisted deaths". Those are people who wanted to die. People who asked someone else to help put them out of their misery. People are up in arms about this issue.

When will they be up in arms about this issue? When will we see this in the headlines of our local newspapers? When will we hear about this on the nightly news? When will the powers that be finally listen and take note that something very wrong is happening to the children of our country? We do not treat our worse criminals in prisons as badly as some of these children are treated.

Imagine if we did. Prisoners have rights. They file lawsuits all the time. They have contact with the outside world.

Kids in boot camps, wilderness programs, behavior modification programs, most of them don't have a voice and most of them lose contact with the outside world. The contact they do have is limited to their parents and that is most often monitored. The stories are told all over this website and in news articles.

So if you want to take the time to explore what people here are talking about, then read and learn. Here are some links you might find interesting:

http://caica.org/NEWS%20DEATH%20death%20trip.htm

http://caica.org/NEWS%20DEATH%20death%20trip.htm

http://caica.org/NEWS%20Deaths%2010-95%20Outdoor.htm

http://caica.org/NEWS%20DEATHS%2048%20hours.htm

http://caica.org/NEWS%20DEATHS%20Bobby%20R.htm

http://caica.org/NEWS%20DEATHS%20Casey1.htm

http://caica.org/NEWS%20DEATHS%207-31-05%20Moody.htm

http://caica.org/NEWS%20DEATHS%20Carlton%201.htm

http://caica.org/NEWS%20DEATHS%20Corey.htm

http://caica.org/NEWS%20DEATHS%20Diane%20Harris.htm

http://caica.org/NEWS%20DEATHS%20Earl.htm

http://caica.org/NEWS%20DEATHS%20Edith.htm

http://caica.org/NEWS%20DEATH%20EDDIE%202.htm

http://caica.org/NEWS%20Deaths%20GS%201.htm

http://caica.org/NEWS%20Deaths%209-21-02%20workers.htm

http://caica.org/NEWS%20DEATH%20death%20trip.htm

http://caica.org/NEWS%20DEATH%20Linda%20Harris%201.htm

http://caica.org/NEWS%20DEATH%20M%20Garcia%201.htm

http://caica.org/NEWS%20DEATHS%20Martin%20Main.htm

http://caica.org/NEWS%20DEATH%20Lorenzo.htm

http://caica.org/NEWS%20DEATH%20Michael6.htm

http://caica.org/NEWS%20DEATH%20Contreras5.htm

http://caica.org/NEWS%20DEATH%20Orlena.htm

http://caica.org/NEWS%20DEATH%20Paul%20Choy%201.htm

http://caica.org/NEWS%20Alldredge%20parents%20sue.htm

http://caica.org/NEWS%20DEATH%20Sakena.htm

http://caica.org/NEWS%20Deaths%20Timothy%201.htm

http://caica.org/NEWS%20Deaths%207-4-01%20Phoenix.htm

http://caica.org/NEWS%20Deaths%20kids%20tell.htm

http://caica.org/NEWS%20Appalachian%206 ... micide.htm

http://caica.org/NEWS%20Deaths%20Tristan.htm

http://caica.org/NEWS%20Deaths%20Edward%20Lee.htm

http://caica.org/NEWS%20Deaths%20Willie1.htm

All of the above are new articles of children who died in the name of treatment. Too many children have died!

[Anonymous]

I re-read these posts and realized I mispoke on my last post, please forgive me. No one claimed there were "only dozens" - these deaths can really get to you sometimes.

[Antigen]

The only ones we know of are those that somehow turned up in the news or who a friend or family member decided to speak of. There's one, for example, who probably died in Steve Cartizano's early wilderness program and who probably isn't included in the list. You can read about her as "Stephanie" (not her real name) at http://63days.com/ How many more like her? Who the hell knows.

He that lives upon hope will die fasting
--Benjamin Franklin 1758

[MomCat]

I wonder too. What about the Exit Plan? Perhaps a convenient way for kids to disappear?

I've read accounts of parents who are convinced by program owners that if the kid does not finish the program then they should give him/her $50, a few nights in a hotel, medical insurance coverage for a few months, and tell them to have a good life.

Some of these families never hear from their child again.

One could ponder that and think that perhaps it's because the child is so angry at his/her family for what they have done that they never want to see them again.

But what if it were a different scenario? What if a kid died in a program, say in some remote island on the other side of the world, and the parents never knew because the kid just vanished off the face of the earth?

The parents would figure the kid ended up on the streets just like program owners would have them believe. But what if ...

[Angel Lux]

"You guys need to get over yourselves, how many of you were students that actually graduated, that are complaining about abuse.  If I had not finished I probaly would have the same lack of belief in myself that I needed to blame on someone else.  It was hard and not everyone had the willpower to withstain the bullshit that when on or the bullshit that goes on in life for that matter."

So you're implying that you have the integrity to not point fingers because you finished a program and that makes you a member of some elite club that's better than us?  Then why are you here pointing fingers at us saying that we're weak-willed and can't deal with life in general?  If you're so strong and secure in yourself then why does a little conversation in a forum on the net bother you to the point of throwing an online hissy-fit ? a conversation that should have no significance to you since you're so stable and confident?  If you?re such a pillar of strength and self-worth then why do our conversations get to you?  What?s wrong with a discussion amongst a group of hurt people who are happy to find that they are not alone in their quest to heal themselves?  Huh?  Do you always take advantage of vulnerable situations and demean other people to make you feel like a big man?  Yeah, sounds like your program really made you a mature, levelheaded, virtuous adult there, buddy.  Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.  You sure are sorry. Hypocrite.

[MomCat]

2nd that, Angel Lux

[MomCat]

QUOTE:  The only ones we know of are those that somehow turned up in the news or who a friend or family member decided to speak of. There's one, for example, who probably died in Steve Cartizano's early wilderness program and who probably isn't included in the list. You can read about her as "Stephanie" (not her real name) at http://63days.com/ How many more like her? Who the hell knows.

Great site, thanks. It really makes you wonder how many we don't know about.

[Angel Lux]

Great site, thanks. It really makes you wonder how many we don't know about. "
[/quote]

Here here!  Thanks for your support.  We need to band together to fight against institutionalized child and teen abuse -- and this is the beginning.  I've suggested in other threads that we compile a collection of stories about our experiences and submit the text for publishing.  That way the masses might be enlightened on what goes on behind the closed doors of these programs.  Other books publish isolated incedents that went to court -- we need a book that embrases untold stories.  Anyone who's interested, please e-mail me at [email protected].  I know that there is a huge trust issue here, but I am willing to stick my neck out, even reveal my identity, to those who want to be a part of this revolution (mind you I'm taking a risk of trust betrayed too -- I hope that means something). Please join the fight.  It means a lot to the kids sitting in group/raps right now.